SMST
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Posts posted by SMST
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Hi,
i have (again) a question to the developers.
As said in the design document, the Hellenic Civ gains units from other civs if it has a theatron special building. I have some questions on that feature:
1. Will it recruit soldiers from all ingame civs or just from those of the other civs existing on the map? I would prefer the second variant, because it would seem odd to me if i get, for example, a celtic unit if there are no celts on the map.
2. Will all units of all civs be accessable? I would lock super units of any other civ because it feel that the uniquity of those units will be lost if Greek Players would have access to them.
I'd love some answers.
Greets,
SMST
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I agree, naval warfare in Rise&Fall was the best i ever saw. But realistic naval warfare (such as ramming, boarding, loading units etc.) is someting the 0 A.D. team wants to achieve anyway, right?
Can you tell something detailled about naval systems in 0 A.D.? For i found nothing in the design document that was detailled enough.
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Okay, i understand that a trigger system is not a priority right now. It would be great, though.
I never grasped JavaScript ... so that is no option for me, sadly.
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Well, all i can say: CAN'T WAIT!
Will basic editor functions be implemented? (such as some triggers etc.) Two words are clinging in my head. "playable" and "scenario"
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Personally, i find it a little bit disturbing that every persian gate has to be the Ishtar Gates. I think they would need to be treated special. But hey, it looks cool.
The building right outside the Gates are Persian barracks, right? They remind me of AoE 1.^^
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There was a mention for Jew faction somewhere else in this forums. They would, however, fit better into the context of 0 A.D. 2, which (as far as i know) plays in the period from 0 - 500 A.D., while Part 1 covers 500 BC -0. And the Jews were particullary strong at that time (rule of Herodes and later, the Bar Kochba uprising and the destroying of the Temple of Jerusalem)
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- I think optional objectives are not an issue, and will certainly be used ... but scripts running through a campaign?
Of course, if possible, i want to use additional objectives.
Concerning scripts:
Did anyone here play Rise and Fall? The campaigns are rather anti-historical ... but there was the feature, that technologies in campaign mode were quite expensive, but the developments of the first scenario was kept for the following scenarios, and so on. For example: You have researched an upgrade for your swordsmen in the finished scenario, and if you move on in campaign , you will still have the upgraded units, whereas you'd have to continue with the old units if you hadn't researched the upgrade.
- I also would like to see a 'battles of the conquerors' adaptation: 0 AD-style. Perhaps the Iberians are not 'interesting' enough for a complete campaign, but at least one scenario should be included.That would be great, it would be also possible to include the two other civs that are not included in my campaign ideas - Carthage and Persia.
It would be great for a 0 A.D. Conquerors Campaign to have one or two scenario(s) for each featured civ, which would mean 6(12) scenarios in total.
Some initial thoughts:
Celts: The Sack of Rome (featuring game Hero Brennus)/The Battle of Gergovia (featuring game hero Vercingetorix)
Hellennes: The Battle of Leuctra (Thebes against Sparta)/The Siege of Rhodos (featuring game hero Demeterius and the editor only unit "Helepolis")
Carthagenians: The Siege of Sagunt/The Battle of Cannae (both featuring Hannibal, allow the player to witness the Punic War Campaign (the second one of my suggestions) from the other perspective.
Persians: This is though. One could recreate the rise of the empire (which would basically mean fighting other Persians resembling the Medians, Lydians, Babylonians etc.) or the battles against Greece (which they mainly lost) or the Roman conquest (which would be historically inaccurate since the Acaemenids were already gone at that time) ... any suggestions?
Iberians: I know not too much about that civ, but i would suggest one scenario against Carthage, one against Rome to add diversity. Both defensive scenarios due to the civ's special abilities.
Rome: The Battle of Pydna (against Macedonia)/The First Civil War (game Hero Sulla against Marius, although i have to admit ... fighting the own faction is not as much fun.
)This 'campaign' can also be used to group scenario's who take place in the same setting but other time: f.e. 'Punic Wars', taking events from all three wars to make it more interesting for the player.Well, the third war isn't all that interesting, is it?
Since Carthage did not have any defenses equal to the Roman forces, it would be rather boring.For the first two, see above. We have both the whole war on the Roman side and two Carthagenian Scenarios in the 'Conquerors Campaign'.
- Concerning civil war: is it not boring to fight against the same faction
?See above.
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Of course
But it can be interesting to use a combination of all of them. cfr. : Age of Kings, Mongols Campaign, scenario 1 where you had to unite the tribes using different methods.
This can be pushed to the next level by not only using different methods to accomplish this but by making the AI respond to the methods you use...
For example: as Athens you want Delos, Aegina, Paros and Naxos to join your sea-alliance (all islands).
1. Objective: Persuade Delos by destroying their fortress and sinking their warfleet.
2. Trigger: If you do so without losing too many units: Aegina will be afraid and offer to join.
Trigger: If you do so with losing a lot of units: the other island will be less impressed by your remaining military and can form an alliance against you, thus making it harder for you to fight them individually.
Well, it sounds quite nice, but it should be a tutorial campaign and that is way too elaborate for a tutorial.
However, that kind of scenario is exactly what i would want to do for the three advanced campaigns.
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Although that huge pink elephant in your picture is kinda strange.
^^
THIS would make an excellent "passable" forest.Cool. I have to practice, i see.
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Holy giant picture, Batman! It turns the page crazy! It is a pretty picture, though.
I linked it so that it cannot tear the screen apart on lower resolutions.
The ground textures you guys have made are excellent. I agree that fallen leaves, plus underbrush, would make it look more realistic, but it still looks very good the way it is now. And in densely settled areas that have been farmed for generations, I imagine a mixture of forests, fields, and tree clumps that would range from completely wild to completely cultivated.
Yeah, the textures are really amazing and are, unlike in some other RTS editors, free combinable because of the great texture blending.
Underbush is a question of placing some, there are nice plant eyecandy objects. But this being an Mediterranean forest, there will be less underbush than in a temperate region.
But speaking of the flora in the design document, cacti are not native to the Old World, so there shouldn't be any cactus in there (except as editor-only eye candy). All but one cactus genus in the Old World* were introduced by humans. They've escaped into the wild, but they're introduced exotic species, not native. Before the Europeans invaded the Americas, they wouldn't be growing in Europe, North Africa, or West Asia.Do you see a cactus anywhere on the picture?
If so, it was not my intention to place some.
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Good job, SMST! I look forward to seeing more of your screenshots and other fan art.
Thanks.
More coming soon - as you can see, there is a small Greek trading post on that map.
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who the hell likes cats?
OI!
Do not dare to say any word against the most elegant companion of mankind!
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Well i planted a little forest in the Scenario editor and got this:
I made that by placing trees individually and i found out that units can actually move through the trees while the atmosphere of a real forest comes through because the shadows are covering the ground.
One thing i did not like about the other editors i worked with (AoE 1+2, EE1) was the rather un-natural look of the forests. When i used the forest brush tool, the trees were just painted on the map like if it was a tree nursery and no wild grown forest. Here in 0 a.d., i achieved a much better look with no brush tool at all. (for none is implemented)
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Campaign with sequell would be awesome, not exactly the same units, but at least one part of "good experienced soldiers"
Yeah. One of the designers could make a short statement if something like that is going to be implemented.
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will diferent units have different population costs?
Because one of the problens in age of empires is: yu can have 200 skirmisher, and you can have 200 elite war elephants =/
In my humble opinion, if microsoft carryed about launching a patch for population cost fix, Age of Empires 3 would only happened as a graphic engine optimizer for the series.
Somebody of the design team said that there will be different unit pop costs. I am not sure if i rebember correctly, but Infantry and Support will cost 1 pop, Cavalry 2 pop, Chariots, Siege Units and Elephants 3 pop.
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One of the succes features of blizzard games and age of empires series was: attention to details, because pleyers don't pay attention, but fans do!
Yes, detailled work is also very important to me. That is why i play mostly older games, and Age of Empires II is my overall favourite.
That love for details, to be seen in unit concepts, screenshots, textures and the pure mass of historical background information was one of the reasons why i first got intrested in 0 A.D. so much.
Anyway, a native voice system would be a great feature. I would even write comments for the Hellenic and Roman civs since i had 7 years of Latin at school and am still learning Ancient greek.
You are German right SMST? well, i'm Brazilian and i'm learning German =) want to exchange knowledge?Sicher.
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and for sure, using voices on the units is very very game-imersing. remenber Age of empires II that have lines on the languages of the civilizations:
TYR BARDAGUI!
That was a viking war cry, wasn't it?
I am already thinking what it would sound like for the Hellenes:
"Kyrie mou?" ("My lord?")
"Diaphterô ekeinous!" ("I will crush them!")
Pretty cool ...
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Well, that was not my idea, in the core, but you really raised a point!
Well, i was not sure what you meant exactly. Perhaps you could explain it in simple English to a poor German student.
- Probably, in the begginning or in differente points of the campaigns, the player recieve a list of goals to choose one, like:"exterminate, in all maps, enemys of that civilization" if he acomplishes this, next map and next map and next maps the enemis will becoming weaker, because of the heavy losses
"Every map you should end with more than X of Y resource ou resurces" if he acomplishes this optional quest on the following map he starts with extra resources, to show him that his economic prowess really payed for!"You should lose, no more tham x% of all your military units in every map". If it Happens, on next maps his soldiers, if the game counts with veterancy, will start more experienced, to reflect that he is using good soldiers, hardened by the heat of former battles.
Yeah, there are plenty of uses for that feature. Especially when you are dealing with a campaign that covers one war drive, so the game could actually memorize how many soldiers were left in the last scenario and that would affect with how many soldiers you start in the next ... that would contribute to the atmosphere of the campaigns a lot!
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Will the campaigns be historically accurate?
As accurate as i can make them. Sometimes, it might be neccessary to shape history a bit due to gameplay and balancing issues, but they are supposed to be accurate.
And none the last: Is possible use campaigns in the styles of "what if" making changes in the course of the campaign deppending on results?You mean, that the player achieves a goal in one scenario and that will have effects throughout the rest of the campaign?
That would be pretty cool, and would definitivley add some depth to the gameplay.
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They would definitely need to be a mod. I really don't see WFG adding a civilization such as the Hebrews when there are Huns, Sarmatians, Germanics, Imperial Romans, Parthians, Mauryans, etc. that can be added.
I see, so your intention is to continue in history as you continue with the series?
I can skip my ideas for a Egyptian and Babylonian Civilisation then.
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Yeah, the Hebrews would be nice, they could be made as a religious based culture with special cavalry. (Salomo was famous for his cavalry)
However, i doubt that they will be included in 0 A.D., because the development process has gone too far to implement a whole new civilisation.
But it would be neat to have them in 0 A.D.'s future expansions, for the developers want to include more factions there.
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I was thinking a Leonidas campaign (like the William Wallace campaign for AOK).
I don't know much about him, but what else than the Battle of Thermopylai did Leonidas do and how could one make that into a campaign?
@oshron: Well, for a game which claims to be the most historically accurate RTS it woukd be rather unfit with something completely fictional.
What do you guys think about the Athens-Variant?
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Vista, though i have a Win7 upgrade lying around here somewhere ... but there is no need for me to install it.
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i still suggest that the learning campaign be about Phillip of Macedon, since that allows for all the building as well as military. or you have something having to do with the rise of rome, since the romans are apparently the full-on basis of the game(as in, all the other factions are cultures that the romans encountered)
I suggested the Rise of Athens as a tutorial campaign - you have many things in there, getting told the basics in Athens, moving on to Greek colonies to do economic and cultural advanced stuff, in the end, returning to Athens for the greco-persian wars where you will get to use advanced military options.
This has also a historical resemblence - for example, the Greeks developed their culture further as they began to build colonies in Asia Minor and Southern Italy and came into grips with local cultures there (before that, they only had the basics of civilisation, as the beginner player will have). Another example being the Battle of Salamis, this was the first time the Athenians ever had a greater navy and thus, they needed to learn how to command them.(!)
The Greek culture is also quite fitting for that, since it has become a kind of "demo civilisation" for 0 A.D.^^
Suggestions for 0 A.D.
in Gameplay Discussion
Posted · Edited by SMST
Something i played with in my mind was a to make a mod for the game, expanding 0 A.D., as the hypothetical second part would do, but in the other direction of the timeline.
Which means: The ancient civilisations BEFORE the Rise of Greece and Rome. The mid eastern culture, with their grand city states, maginificent buildings and large armies.
The civilisations would be:
Egypt
Persia
(which could be taken from the original game because in the end, it would fit better in the timeframe of the expansion mod)
Mesopotamia
(Subfactions Assyrians/Babylonians, such as Poleis/Macedonians for the original Hellenes faction)
Hittites
Mycenean Greeks
(NOT the classical Greece but the civilisation described in Homer's great epoi)
... and, you guessed it, the Hebrews bzw. the Kingdom of Judaea.
But all of this is "future music" (a German expression for things that are not yet to be realised because of missing foundations) until 0 A.D. 1 is released.