av_nefardec
-
Posts
4.772 -
Joined
-
Last visited
Posts posted by av_nefardec
-
-
Need judges?
-
Ok, about names of characters, places and ships -
Some are obvious, sorry, just wanted to be thorough.
CHARACTERS
Neo - stated before
Thomas Anderson - Stated before
Agent Smith - I believe the agents were all given the most common surnames on purpose. Could this be a reference to smithing/forging/creating?
Merovingian - described before.
Persephone - obviously after the Greek goddess, wife to the Merovingian-like Hades.
Cain/Abel - obvious biblical reference.
Trinity - obvious christian reference.
Morpheus - Stated before
Bane - he is Neo's Bane, Smith.
Niobe - In greek mythology, the Queen of Thebes, strange because she was eternally mourning in greek mythology, but is an eternal optimist in the movie. Niobe in Greek Mythology was renowned for her arrogance and pride. The late singer, Aaliyah was originally casted as Niobe.
Cypher - one of the definitions for this is "a quanity of no importance", or "a person of no influence". It has the other obvious meaning of being a hack or solution to a code problem.
Roland - Roland was a frankish commander during the time of Charlemagne. "Proud and brave, he refused to sound his horn for reinforcements until it was too late. When he finally did sound the horn, the effort caused 'blood to flow from his mouth and burst from his forehead'. "
Link - obviously the link between the matrix and the real world.
Commander Lock - A tribute perhaps to the great philosopher, John Locke? Also, locks are symbols of control, and he is a very controlling person.
Sati (the little Indian girl in revolutions) - Sati is a hindu tradition: "Sati is described as a Hindu custom in India in which the widow was burnt to ashes on her dead husband's pyre. Basically the custom of Sati was believed to be a voluntary Hindu act in which the woman voluntary decides to end her life with her husband after his death. But there were many incidences in which the women were forced to commit Sati, sometimes even dragged against her wish to the lighted pyre."
Rama-Khandra (Sati's father) - Hindu king, hero "Rama was a real or mythical king in ancient India, whose life and heroic deeds are related by the Sanskrit epic Ramayana" 'Rama is held up as a model of Hindu devotion to caste and the rules of dharma, and as a militant opponent of those who would break with it." "Alternative name, and to avoid confusion with others called Rama: Ramachandra"
Apoc (from the first matrix movie) - As in APOCalypse.
Mouse - from a computer mouse, he's a technician
Switch - again, another computer term, because he's a technician
Sparks - Reference to electricity, specifically the EMPs used in the movie. In the movie the Logos, of which sparks is captain has to deal with power to evade the sentinels I believe. Sparks also light a fire, and he starts the ship often
Deus Ex Machina (the machine that Neo makes a deal with at the end of revolutions) - In classical greek drama, this was a character who provided an unexpected solution to a previously unsolvable problem (eg Oedipus and the Riddle of the Sphinx). It's also a play on the literary meaning, which is The God from a machine. Obviously this is a machine, and he assumes the role of "god' by determining the fate of the world.
Captain Mifune - In Memoriam of the lateToshiro Mifune, I believe, who played heroic characters in Japanese Samurai movies.
Kid - obviously young. I need not explain this
Counselor Hamann (one of the leaders of Zion who believes in the prophecy) - A tribute to another philosopher, Johann Georg Hamann, a german philosopher who was preoccupied with enlightenment.
Tirant (Captain of the Novalis) - Tirant was the white knight of the Arthurian legend who symbolized chivalry.
Ajax (Captain of the Icarus) - Obvious reference to the Greek Hero of the Trojan war.
Kali (Captain of the Brahma) - a reference to the Hindu Goddess Kali who was the wife of Shiva. She symbolized death and destruction, and that death cannot exist without life (brahma) and vice versa.
Alexa (of the Animatrix's "Matriculated") - Greek goddess of love, who imposes love upon others. If you've seen this animatrix episode, you'll know why it makes sense.
B166ER (robot put on trial for killing a human)- Similar to h4xx0r/1337 for BIGGER. In the book Native Son, by Richard A. Wright, there is a character named "Bigger Thomas". "In the book Bigger Thomas is working for a white family (like a robot would for a human one), and accidently kills the white daughter through self preservation like B166ER. Just like in 2nd R, there is debate over a trial for the black Bigger."
Keymaker - not only does he make keys in the physical sense, but programs called KeyMakers generate secure passwords on computers
Malachi (first mate of the Caduceus) - Biblical prophet, name means messenger.
Reinhardt (Neo's Boss in the Matrix) - Ad Reinhardt is an abstract minimalist artist who makes paintings that look like they could be part of the movie
SHIPS
Gnosis - Obviously a connection to Gnosticism/Gnostic Christianity, the primary religious influence on the movie trilogy. Gnosis is greek for "Knoweldge"
Logos - Greek for "logic, word, reasoning, the basis of modern gnosticism.
Caduceus - obviously the two intertwining serpents around a staff. In ancient Rome this was a symbol of Diplomacy, noncombatance, truce, and neutrality. (foreshadowing the ending?)
Nebuchadnezzar - Bablyonian King who captured and destroyed Jerusalem. Also there is a biblical reference linking Morpheus to his ship "In the second year of the reign of Nebuchadnez'zar, Nebuchadnez'zar had dreams; and his spirit was troubled, and his sleep left him." Morpheus says "I have dreamed a dream, and now that dream has gone from me."
Icarus - obvious reference to the son of the greek inventor Daedalus who built wings of wax, flew too close to the sun and feel to his death. Reference to the EMPs?
Brahma - obvious reference to the Hindu god - notice a trend here?
This is the creator god, which is a direct irony of its captain Kali, which was the goddess of destruction in Hinduism.Osiris - obviously a reference to the Egyptian God of Death and the Afterlife.
Vigilant - obviously meaning watchful or guard-like
Mjolnir - Thor's Hammer of Norse Mythology. Mjolnir means lightning. The hovercrafts use "lighting" that is, electricity to move.
Novalis - Novalis was the psuedonym of Friedrich von Hardenburg. He wrote "Hyms to the Night", the first section of which you can read for yourself and figure out what it has to do with the Matrix
Before all the wondrous shows of the widespread space around him, what living, sentient thing loves not the all-joyous light -- with its colors, its rays and undulations, its gentle omnipresence in the form of the wakening Day? The giant-world of the unresting constellations inhales it as the innermost soul of life, and floats dancing in its blue flood -- the sparkling, ever-tranquil stone, the thoughtful, imbibing plant, and the wild, burning multiform beast inhales it -- but more than all, the lordly stranger with the sense-filled eyes, the swaying walk, and the sweetly closed, melodious lips. Like a king over earthly nature, it rouses every force to countless transformations, binds and unbinds innumerable alliances, hangs its heavenly form around every earthly substance. -- Its presence alone reveals the marvelous splendor of the kingdoms of the world.Aside I turn to the holy, unspeakable, mysterious Night. Afar lies the world -- sunk in a deep grave -- waste and lonely is its place. In the chords of the bosom blows a deep sadness. I am ready to sink away in drops of dew, and mingle with the ashes. -- The distances of memory, the wishes of youth, the dreams of childhood, the brief joys and vain hopes of a whole long life, arise in gray garments, like an evening vapor after the sunset. In other regions the light has pitched its joyous tents. What if it should never return to its children, who wait for it with the faith of innocence?
What springs up all at once so sweetly boding in my heart, and stills the soft air of sadness? Dost thou also take a pleasure in us, dark Night? What holdest thou under thy mantle, that with hidden power affects my soul? Precious balm drips from thy hand out of its bundle of poppies. Thou upliftest the heavy-laden wings of the soul. Darkly and inexpressibly are we moved -- joy-startled, I see a grave face that, tender and worshipful, inclines toward me, and, amid manifold entangled locks, reveals the youthful loveliness of the Mother. How poor and childish a thing seems to me now the Light -- how joyous and welcome the departure of the day -- because the Night turns away from thee thy servants, you now strew in the gulfs of space those flashing globes, to proclaim thy omnipotence -- thy return -- in seasons of thy absence. More heavenly than those glittering stars we hold the eternal eyes which the Night hath opened within us. Farther they see than the palest of those countless hosts -- needing no aid from the light, they penetrate the depths of a loving soul -- that fills a loftier region with bliss ineffable. Glory to the queen of the world, to the great prophet of the holier worlds, to the guardian of blissful love -- she sends thee to me -- thou tenderly beloved -- the gracious sun of the Night, -- now am I awake -- for now am I thine and mine -- thou hast made me know the Night -- made of me a man -- consume with spirit-fire my body, that I, turned to finer air, may mingle more closely with thee, and then our bridal night endure forever.
PLACES
Zion - obviously the last human city to fall.
Matrix - Latin for "dam, female animal kept for breeding; parent tree; register, list; or womb"
Versatran(place in "The Second Renaissance" in the Animatrix) - Versatran was the second commercial robot, built in 1963.
Side note:
Simulacra and Simulations, the book that Neo hides his diskette in during the first matrix movie is:
... a book written in 1981 by Jean Baudrillard. The essence of the book is that the constant flow of images and information that bombards our modern society alters our perception of reality. We are unaware that our perception of reality has been altered. The altered or false reality is accepted as true and thus becomes our new reality, our matrix.Another Side note - Neo's room is 101, the Merovingian's restaurant is 101 - that is 5 in binary, and the matrix was created and destroyed 5 times before Neo
Also, 101 is the name of the room in George Orwell's 1984 where people are tortured and brainwashed into believing falsities!An interesting thing about Agent Smith I found on matrixfans.net.
William of Ockham(linked to Agent Smith) was a philosopher who studied Causality(mentioned be The Merovingian) he stated that there were two kinds of causality, efficient and final. Efficient had cause and effect that was based on a general feeling, while Final Causality was based on love or desire. So the Architect pretty much says that the previous "ones" made their choice due to efficiency (efficient causality), while Neo has made his choice based on love(final causality). The symbolism would be that since they discussed causality and since Neo's choice had to do with cause and effect and his choice was different than all the previous "ones" before him, his choice was based on that which has the FINAL cause and effect.I don't know anyone will understand this properly since it can't seem to find the right words.
If your are curious as to why I said that Agent Smith is linked to William of Ockham, it has do do with Ockham's Razor. Ockham's Razor stated that "Entities should not be multiplied unnecessarily." Another link will be in Revolutions. In the trailer it shows Neo and Smith getting ready to fight one on one even though the street they're on is lined with Smith's, well Ockham also states that "What can be done with fewer is done in vain with more."
Smith's license plate:
IS 5416
Isaiah 54:16?
Behold, I have created the smith
Who blows the coals in the fire,
Who brings forth an instrument for his work;
And I have created the spoiler to destroy.
In the movie, license plates are usually biblical references - so be on the lookout!
Whew! That was a lot. I found most of these references on my own, maybe 90%. But some were from other sources, because I wanted to know so badly
-
Well the thing with mobil ave is that it takes place in a location that is a metaphor for the catholic Limbo, so that explanation seems most likely.
But the interesting thing is that they left so much of it so ambiguous and open for discussion.
This is a cult film in more ways than one! It's creating a cult and it's based on a cult
(gnostic christianity/esoteric christianity) -
lol, very true.
-
Hmm, I don't exactly think whites are in danger of losing power
There will always be a white elite pulling the strings of the world.
if not, get out, plain and simple.I'm not sure that's a very American thing to say. America has historically been one of the most open nations in the world, and we have never been the kind of people to take the easy way out
-
Oh, yes, you're right, that was strange.
But man, I'd like to be buried in such a place
-
I actually began making up a fantasy world when I was about 9 or 10, before I really started reading Tolkien, and I was inspired mainly by the Forgotten Realms Dungeons and Dragons setting. But this is OT
I'm going to be posting explanations of places/names/ships, etc in the Matrix movies soon.
-
Equipment/Possessions of Characters in Tolkien's Work
Fingolfin
Horse - Rochallor
Sword - Ringil "Ice-glimmer"
Turgon
Sword-Glamdring "Foe-hammer" (forged by Telchar of Nogrod)
Eöl
Sword - Anguirel (made of Galvorn by Eöl)
Maeglin
Sword - Anguirel (from Eöl)
Thingol
Sword - Aranrúth (Lord's Ire)
Necklace - Nauglamir (from Beren's Silmaril)
Tuor
Axe - Dramborleg
Ship - Eärrámë
Túrin
Sword - Anglachel "Iron of the Burning Star" (forged out of Galvorn by Eöl, later reforged as Gurthang)
Helm - Dragon Helm of Dor-lómin (made for Azaghâl in the image of Glaurung, then given to Maedhros, then given to Fingon, who gave it to Turgon)
Gil-galad
Spear - Aeglos "Snowpoint"
Ring - Vilya (later given to Elrond)
Eärendil
Ship - Vingilot
Elrond
Ring - Vilya (Blue Ring, Ring of Sapphire, Ring of Air, from Gil-galad)
Aldarion
Ships - Eämbar "Sea-house", Palarran "Far-wanderer", Hirilondë "Haven Finder"
Ar-Pharazôn
Ship - Alcarondas "Sea-castle"
Sceptre - Sceptre of Númenor
Vëantur
Ship - Númerrámar "Wings of the West"
Glorfindel
Horse - Asfaloth (stolen, hijacked by Arwen in the movie
)Aragorn II (Elessar)
Sword - Andúril "Flame of the West" (forged by Telchar of Nogrod, wielded by Elendil, reforged by Elves of Rivendell)
Horse - Rocheryn
Horse (in Rohan) - Hasufel
Ring - Ring of Barahir (borne originally by Barahir, then Beren, and all the line of Isildur.
Crown - Crown of Gondor (last worn by Eärnur)
Sceptre - Sceptre of Annúminas (borne by the line of Isildur)
Amulet - The Elessar "Elfstone"
Misc - The Elendilmir (gem)
Thorin II Oakenshield
Sword - Orcrist "Foe-hammer"
Misc - Arkenstone (gem)
Bilbo Baggins
Sword - Sting (forged in Gondolin, later give to Frodo Baggins)
Ring - The One Ring (forged by Sauron in Mordor, held by many)
Frodo Baggins
Sword - Sting (forged in Gondolin, given by Bilbo Baggins)
Ring - The One Ring (forged by Sauron in Mordor, held by many)
Misc - Phial of Galadriel (given to Frodo by Galadriel during the Quest of Mount Doom)
Theoden
Sword - Herugrim
Horse - Snowmane
Eómer Eádig
Sword - Gúthwinë "Friend of Battle"
Horse - Firefoot
Gandalf/Mithrandir/Olórin/Incánus/Tharkûn
Staff - unnamed
Sword - Glamdring (forged by Telchar of Nogrod for Turgon)
Ring - Narya (given to Gandalf by Círdan)
Horse - Shadowfax "grey hair" (given by Theoden)
Galadriel
Ring - Nenya (Green Ring, Ring of Water, Ring of Adamant)
Let's keep this list updated!
-
Really, I would say hobbits were better done, or equal at least.
Well sure the hobbits were good, but there was less to do comparatively, and since Rohan had so many facets to it and all of them were done well, I think it was a greater feat.
Rough, unnatural transition from Eowyn's Lament to Gandalf/Theoden scene.Really? I thought this was quite natural. What I thought was unnatural was going to this scene in the first place, it just came out of nowhere.
Flotsam and Jetsam where M&P find the pipeweed and it just seems a bit too silly Flotsam and Jetsam where M&P find the pipeweed and it just seems a bit too silly.Maybe, but it's pretty lighthearted in the book. I think this also serves to contrast their carefree nature with the valiant warriors they will prove to become in RotK.
Merry/Pippin a bit too silly Ent drink and then Old Man Willow cameo.This was done weirdly - in the book they drink on their own at the entwash, and then later treebeard gives them that bowl with the draught. Then he gives them more draughts after his Ent/Entwife song in the book. I'm not sure exactly where it is in the book where they notice the height difference, but it's definitely not when they drink the draughts, and it's too slow of growth to notice.
The reason I've yet to buy TTT is because I didn't want to waste my money buying both the normal and EE versions of TTT, and I wanted to wait to see which one I liked better first, normal or EE before I bought either or.
-
Lol, sorry if I came across as "Nefarious" (the name nefardec actually is a role-playing character name I've had for years, and it stems from a language I made up a long time ago.)
I'm going to be posting my next installment of Matrix easter egss and what not later today
-
*shakes head*
Slavery is an integral part of our world history whether we like it or not, and as a result slave and master have since become well-rooted words in our vernacular. This is incredulous.
-
Ok, so I saw TTT EE at a friend's last night, and I did like what I saw. (and heard)
I think they did a pretty good job of reconciling several things.
The flashback when the Gondorians take back Osgiliath is excellent. Very good characterization of Boromir, Faramir, and Denethor - Denethor - I love him already, very well done. When Denethor says "a chance for Faramir, captain of Gondor, to show his value" or whatever, it just pulls in the whole Osgiliath mishap and stops it from going to far out of the story.
The movie makers did a nice job of using Osgiliath to show the inner combat within Faramir, between him and his people, by placing it within the context of external combat. This is a brilliant device, in my opinion. even if it's not part of the book, it does redeem it a bit. However, I'm quite annoyed that they chose to portray the Gondorians as 15th century french knights
but the armor in this movie (save for the orcs) has always been too hollywood, IMO.And then when Faramir further redeemed himself right before Sam, Frodo, and Gollum set out to Cirith Ungol - I was very happy about that.
THE FORDS OF ISEN - I was quite happy to see this - it was pretty well done IMO. I think before the movie focused way too much on Helm's Deep, as if it was the only important part of TTT. But Helm's deep is just another battle in a war that had actually already begun! So by putting the rest of Rohan in the context of this battle, PJ made himself more credible as an adapter of the books
If you read the description of the setting of the battle in UT, you see the movie did a fantastic job. The only problem is that I don't think Eomer ever came to the Fords of Isen - he was busy at Edoras, and besides that, was a marshal of the East-mark, not the West-mark. After Theodred fell, Erkenbrand was the marshal of the west-mark and should have been the one to come upon Theodred. Also, Theodred died after Grimbold and Elfhelm heard his last words.In the movie, they make Eomer a combination of several characters - Elfhelm, Grimbold, and Erkenbrand. Eomer assumes all the roles at once, which is unfortunate for us purists, but makes sense if you're just focusing on the Lord of the Rings and not also UT.
The battles of the fords of Isen intrigue me, if you can't tell
, as do the Rohirrim. The appendices of this chapter in UT describe the military organization of Rohan in detail - so interesting.Eowyn's song. I loved this part. What can I say, I'm obsessed with language, and when she started singing in Anglo-Saxon, I was really blown away. I think the movie did the best job with Rohan out of anything they've done so far. They captured Tolkien's words precisely, IMO.
It makes so much sense now too, why the King is out there alone with Gandalf mourning Theodred. Very good. Rohan is awesome
HUORNS - very, very nice! They did a fantastic job of this. I was quite thrilled to see them. (as I'm sure the Rohirrim were
) Just as it is described in the book. My non-tolkien friends at last understood why the meager force at helm's deep actually killed all of 10000 uruks and dunlendings.I was quite happy with the scene in which the Dunlending chieftain pledges himself to Saruman. Great characterization of the race and it lets non-purists know that there is more to ME than the movie shows.
Flotsam and Jetsam was a real treat to watch. Perfectly done, and it was as light hearted as the actual chapter in the book, after such a dismal battle.
In summary, I am quite happy with the EE. I shall be purchasing it soon.
-
But then Tolkien describes Sauron as having not only orcs in his armies, as the Snaga, the slaves, but having "Large fighting orcs", "Large Fierce" Uruks in his armies. These guys are at least 6' tall if not more, and they have dark black skin.
This was a reference only to Saruman's Uruk-hai.
But you know, I think I was under the spell-hold of the movie in saying this
The only description as to height of the Uruk-hai is:
There were four goblin-soldiers of greater stature, swart, slant-eyed, with thick legs and large hands. They were armed with short, broad bladed swords, not with the curved scimitars usual with Orcs; and they had bows of yew, in length and shape like the bows of Men. Upon their shields they bore a strange device, a small white hand in the centre of a black field; on the front of their iron helms was set an S-rune wrought of some white metal.So the only hint as to their height is greater stature, and then the size of their bows. Usually the bigger the person, the taller, the taller and stronger the bow one can use. The Númenoreans, for instance used tall longbows. So since the bows were in length and shape like the bows of men, I had always assumed they were of similar height.
I guess too, six feet seems shorter to me than it might for others since I am 6'4"
But I think the movie had corrupted my mind for a bit there.I think the reason the tracker was dark was because he would be tracking all day and all night, and to survive the sunlight, he'd need dark skin.
-
Red bricks aren't very dwarvish. But I think you could do better with the texture on the stones.
I'd make it white or grey versions of the bricks.
-
@Mythos Ruler - Well disregarding your opinion on the movie as a film or story, the world is nonetheless interesting. The purpose of this topic is to find out just "how deep the rabbit hole goes", not to fill it up with dirt, so let's be looking for interesting connections, etc.
-
Hmm for me it's a close call between Herugrim (Theoden's sword and Glamdring.
-
- Merovingians were french mayors who were said to be descended from Jesus Christ (an esoteric christian myth) and were exiled for because being descended from Christ meant that Christianity would have meant that Christianity was not the same faith everyone had once thought it to be. So the Merovingian kings were said to have been more powerful than the other kings of France and the Holy Roman Empire because they had royal blood. (Sangreal is holy grail - San Greal, but it could also be Sang Real which means "Royal Blood") Strange stuff.
-The Merovingian in the Matrix world is much like the hades of Greek Mythology - both have a wife named persephone who betrays him after she catches him with another woman. Both control "the Underworld" in different ways obviously. In Greek Mythology, few have ever been to the underworld as living men and have come back, the same is true in the Matrix. Hades is accessed via a ferry across the River Acheron, which is rowed by Charon, the ferryman. The Train man in the Matrix is Charon, his ferry is his train. In greek mythology, if you did not pay Charon to use the ferry, you'd be stuck on the banks of the Acheron for 100 years. Compare this to Neo's situation on the train station. Also, the ghosts, vampires, and werewolves live in the Merovingian's underworld realm just like similar monsters abide in Hades' underworld realm.
-Behind Neo in the train station is 'Mobil Ave". This is an anagram (that is letters are rearranged) for "Limbo", which in the Judeo-Christian myth is:
"In Roman-Catholic doctrine, limbo is situated between heaven and hell. It is the abode of the dead whose souls have been excluded from heaven through no fault of their own. There are two forms of limbo: the limbo of the fathers and the limbo of infants. In the first the souls of the just await their redemption by Christ. In the second the souls of unbaptized children and others free of personal sin are detained. They have no hope of entering heaven and are in a perpetual state of oblivion."
-In his conversation with Neo, the Architect says:
"I am the Architect. I created the Matrix. I've been waiting for you. You have many questions, and though the process has altered your consciousness, you remain irrevocably human. Ergo some of my answers you will understand, and some of them you will not."
What's important here is he says "ergo some". Ergo means therefore, in Latin, which makes the sentence itself logical, but what's really noteworthy here is the word that follows. Some is a homophone, it sounds the same, as "Sum", which is latin for 'I am'. Students of philosophy will notice that Ergo Sum is the latter half of Renee Decartes' famous assertian, 'Cogito, Ergo Sum", which means "I think therefore I am". Decartes in his fourth meditation first described the sort of forced-dream world that is the matrix, when he declared that the world may be governed by some evil demon and we are all dreaming, etc, etc. So this is a tribute to the man who first came up with the matrix idea and wrote it down.
-In the Gnostic Christian myth, Thomas is the twin brother of Jesus, and the writer of the Gnostic Gospels. Neo's name in the Matrix is Thomas Anderson. Anderson is a combination of Ander and son, and "Ander" comes from the greak word Anthropos, which means man. So Anderson means "Son of Man".
-The 101 on Neo's door and in the Merovingian's restaurant is binary for "5", but I have no idea what that means perhaps someone can clear this up for me
-If Neo is the savior of a gnostic christian myth, the Architect is the "creator god", the agents are the "archons" who attempt to stop the savior from ascending, Smith is the antichrist, and the Merovingian is clearly the devil.
-When Neo is talking to the Oracle in her apartment in Revolutions, the jazz song in the background is Duke Ellington's "I'm beginning to see the light again." Strangely reminiscient of what seems to happen as the movie goes on, no?
-Neo is an anagram for "One", and means "new" in greek.
-Morpheus was the greek god of sleep and in the movies he says such things as:
"I have dreamed a dream, and now that dream has gone from me."
"Good night, Zion. Sweet dreams."
"You've been living in a dream world, Neo."
'The Matrix is a computer generated dream world built to keep us under control in order to change a human being into this."
"Have you ever had a dream, Neo, that you were so sure was real. What if you were unable to wake from that dream. How would you know the difference between the dream world and the real world?"
-
Post your interesting connections/finds/questions here.
-
I don't think there are that many modelers who make models without references of some sort.
-
Well it appears Tolkien himself must have contradicted himself -
He describes orcs in the letters as being sallowskinned (once)
But in the books he consistently describes them as being swart, the definitions of which I gave above. And I think there's no contest in that we should make the Uruks black.
Another thing, can you give me once citation that says they are taller than men?No, orcs weren't taller then men, why would you think that?
The only orc I know that comes close was the chieftain in the Tomb of Balin.
As far as I know black is not sallow, so I'm willing to accept all the way to having the majority of orcs in ME being black, but not all, some were sallow skinned.Sallowskinned is basically like a sickly yellow-green color. I think this is an acceptable color for the lowliest of orcs, the Snaga, the cannon-fodder. Why? because Tolkien makes mention that the orcs are harmed by the light of the sun, and the orcs with dark skin, the Uruks, had tough black skin that resisted it.
In summary, the color of orcs depends on the size and station of the orcs. The smaller orcs in general are more sallow skinned, while the larger orcs are generally more dark skinned. Not to say there aren't exceptions - the small tracker orc in RotK is black skinned. I'm sure there are lighter skinned large orcs, but in general, what we must look at for TLA, the bigger, the darker. And orcs that come from Minas Morgul and Barad-dûr, the two main fortresses of Mordor were generally described as darker than those of lesser fortresses, say from Cirith Ungol, etc.
I think the best summary is that the more evil, the darker the orc. Tolkien uses size and monstrosity to indicate evilness, so therefore the larger ones are usually darker. But you can have a really evil small orc, such as the tracker, who kills his larger orc bodyguard in the book.
So sallow skinned for the lowly orcs, darker brown/green/grey for the soldiers, and black for the heaviest arm. I think this offers a pretty good characterization of Tolkien's orcs for our game.
I think a blue skinned orc is totally acceptable!! I do hope you are kidding...
-
Well the hide on quellions drawing is actually many deer hides or boar hides sewn together to cover the ram. The other way to do it is to cover it in thick wooden shingles.
Regarding the colors of stone: They would use the same stone they carve out of the mountains which would be almost all marble, granite, limestone, and sandstone.
Sandstone can be red, but it's not as common as the others in mountains, so I'd make them limestone, marble, or granite stones.
-
Ok here are some definitions of "swart" (swarthy is the newer form of the word) I looked up for some clues on color of those lesser orcs:
swarth·yadj. swarth·i·er, swarth·i·est
Having a dark complexion or color.
swarthy\Swarth"y\, a.
Being of a dark hue or dusky complexion; tawny; swart; as, swarthy faces. ``A swarthy Ethiope.'' --Shak/
So think of the skin color of ethiopians here.
swart\Swart\, a. [OE. swart, AS. sweart black; akin to OFries, OS. & LG. swart, D. zwart, G. schwartz, OHG. swarz, Icel. svarir, Sw. svart, Dan. sort, Goth. swarts; cf. L. sordes dirt, sordere to be dirty. Cf. Sordid, Surd.] 1. Of a dark hue; moderately black; swarthy; tawny.
So if its etymological origins are from Schwartz, which clearly means "black" in german, and it comes from other words for "black" as you see above, I'd say making all orcs of very dark colors would be a good idea.
If there's one thing certain, Tolkien was an expert in these types of languages and new EXACTLY what he was describing when he wrote "swart".
-
Elf I suggest you read the Parma Endorion so that you can see where I am coming from.
http://63.249.237.140/parma_endorion.pdf
Go to the section titled "What did orcs look like?" on page 47
see no reason to believe that Black Uruks of Mordor says that Uruks from Mordor are Black, all it's saying is that those Uruks were black and were from Mordor. May lead one to believe that Uruks of Mordor are all black but doesn't specifically say so.Yes, but then you can say that some orcs are blue because it doesn't specifically say so.
This is a game, and if we have Uruk units, we will make them all one color (or two similar colors if we have space for random texture maps)
You see, I never claimed that all Uruks or orcs for that matter were black, just that the biggest and most evil of them were always described as Tolkien to be black. Therefore, since our biggest orc units are Uruks, to best adhere to Tolkien's description, we ought to do the same and make our largest, most evil orc units black.
As for colors of the lesser orcs, I'm not familiar of any explicit passage detailing it, but darker shades of ruddy browns, greens, and greys are fine with me.
-
It's nothing like gladiator. If it seems like it, then their marketing schemes have worked, because I'm sure they want to play off of Crowe's popularity from gladiator.
This is a completely different movie.
Random Facts about Arda
in The Green Dragon
Posted
Thorondor's wingspan was 30 fathoms - that's 180 feet!
That makes Gwaihir seem like a hummingbird!