Prodigal Son

I've got what's behind the core of it and as I said it's a nice start, but I still believe it's too oversimplified this way. Balance tests now will only be about differences in available unit classes and a couple of different techs per civ, without concerning that some classes, techs and attributes would be too unhistorical if added or removed for some factions. I believe there's a need to consider what uniqueness each civ should have at the same time (even if added little by little in the almost level case we've got now) if we want a historical and varied game with civs that will play more differently than "mine more stone than average with X civ", or "train cavalry spears cause you don't have cavalry swords available". Edit: Btw, this just made me remember.. Cavalry Swords are a bit strange conceptually. I've yet to come across an ancient cavalry unit with swords as their main weapon. It would be a side-arm to spears, javelins or bows. I guess the class could be removed overall, making balance easier as well, as we have too many troop types.

What's the code for spoilers? I know and had no intention to push all this in the game in the last moment before A17 release. Scythe seems rather busy and possibly not very interested, I'm not blaming him, he has just reorganized everything, it would be strange to throw it all away and much of it is in a good direction anyway. However, factions now feel like the old Age Of Empires clone ones, with very minor variations (besides the visuals). That might be a good start for balance, but we need to start implementing variety and interesting concepts little by little so they can be tested and finally reach balance while having unique and historical factions. So I'm for changing some minor things if there's some time available, with more coming in for the next alpha. By the way, with Mythos gone, is there anyone currently in the team with a vision on the historical and uniqueness part of the factions? While I did not completely agree with the way it was, it was still rather good on that aspect compared to now and most (wannabe) historical RTS.

Detailed Faction Proposals Part 2: CARTHAGINIANS CIV CENTER WomanLibyan SpearmanLibyan Skirmisher*Punic Cavalry Spearman*BARRACKS (Citizen/Subject People Recruits) Libyan SpearmanLibyan SkirmisherMauritanian ArcherPunic Cavalry SpearmanMERCENARY CAMP/EMBASSY (Bonused to 2 or more for Carthage) Numidian Cavalry SkirmisherIberian SkirmisherGallic SwordsmanLigurian SpearmanIberian SwordsmanCeltic Cavalry SwordsmanIberian Cavalry SpearmanItalian Cavalry SpearmanItalian SwordsmanBalearic SlingerMany of the above could change class or be narrowed down to reduce duplicates*Ideally each map would be classified to a regional pool, and each faction would be able to train some civ-specific mercenaries (their most common perhaps) and some from the regional pool. Same with successor levy barracks structures. *Mercenaries could train slightly fasted by default to make up for their high metal cost and add realism. FORTRESS (Champions) War ElephantTEMPLE Sacred band infantry and Cavalry Champions (plus healers ofc)REFORMS Barcid Armies: Increased armor for melee infantry units (rearmed with looted roman kits) and reduced mercenary costs (better handling of alliances and subjects through diplomacy and use of hostages)TECHS/BONUSES/COMMENTS Colonization bonus: Either shared with Athens (cheaper/faster built CC) or their current tech as a default bonusExploration bonus: Increased unit/ship line of sight (maybe for civilian and non-mercenary units only)Mass Production: Increased siege weapon train speedGive them back their wall bonuses even if lesser and/or a tech increasing tower, fortress, barracks and wall hp. They had massive walls with built-in barracks, stables and elephant stables.Buff naval shipyard with repair aura, ability to garrison ships and an attack or some of them. Add naval architects to both docks.ATHENIANS CIV CENTER WomanAthenian HopliteAthenian Psilos Slinger* (usually javelinmen, at times archers, but for flavor and avoiding duplicates let's go with slingers)Athenian Cavalry Skirmisher*BARRACKS Athenian HopliteAthenian Psilos SlingerAthenian Cavalry SkirmisherAthenian Cavalry Swordsman (flavor to differentate greeks, I think Spearman is more likely though)MERCENARY CAMP/EMBASSY (limited to 1 for all but Carthage) Thracian PeltastScythian Archer (they were policemen, I think armed with clubs, but flavor again)Cretan Archers (possible and more realistic alternative to scythians)Rhodian Slingers also possible.GYMNASION (Now this structure makes some sense for proposed champions, if they are rejected please rename it to garrison and add a new icon) Logades Hoplites - Elite hoplite force instead of the generic "city guard", same function. I've read they also trained to use bows, but not sure about the source. Going this way could have Logades Hoplites and Archers (picked force of both as champions) without marines full time on land.Marine Archers - Makes more sense than the scythians or some unhistorical marine swordsman. Marines could give an extra bonus when garrisoned in ships.(NEW) ACADEMY STRUCTURE (For Greeks, Succesors, Romans and Maybe Carthaginians - library or some recently unbuildable greek structures as placeholders) Holds some (new) techs that don't fit elsewherePhilosopher Champion Healer: New unit that functions as a priest but also has an aura or empowerment skill increasing construction/train time/tech time.REFORMS Iphicratian Reform: Increased movement speed for melee and ranged infantry, possibly at a slight armor trade-off if it proves too strong. Could also replace Hoplites with Iphicratian Hoplites looking similar to the current city guard.TECHS/BONUSES/COMMENTS Colonization bonus: Cheaper/faster built CCImperialism/Athenian Empire bonus: Civ Centers, Triremes (or docks) or both provide a small tickle of metal.Chorigoi (Sponsors): Dock tech reducing Trireme (metal?) cost.Their 2 superfast messenger Triremes, Paralos and Salaminia could be used as some form of fast scout ship with extensive line of sight, but I guess it's not worth the modeling effort for something so minor in gameplay.SPARTANS CIV CENTER WomanHelot (Slave worker with farming bonuses and degenerating hitpoints - going gaia and aggressive at low health)Spartan Hoplite Champion (limited to one per farm or house - can't gather/build)Perioikos Hoplite - if the above two are not implementedPerioikos Cavalry Skirmisher*BARRACKS (Subjects such as perioikoi, helots and skiritae - those were a actually tribe, not spartan commandos, probably being confused with crypteia) Helot SkirmisherPerioikos HoplitePerioikos Cavalry SkirmisherSkiritis Swordsman (or more accurately fast light hoplite)MERCENARY CAMP/EMBASSY (limited to 1 for all but Carthage) Cretan ArchersTarantine Cavarly SkirmisherElean Cavalry SpearmanHellenic Thyreophoros (Spearman or Skirmisher)Rodian or Arcadian SlingersSYSSITION (Champion Units) Spartan HopliteCrypteia (swordsman for variety?) - Special operations and police force, often used to terrorize-murder helots. Could have a helot suppression aura preventing helot revolts if helot workers are used.REFORMS Cleomenian Reform: Unlocks pikemen citizen-soldiers, provides a farming bonus and possibly unlocks some of the mercenaries.TECHS/BONUSES/COMMENTS Replace Agis - who seems less interesting with no aura - with Cleomenes III, having an aura buffing pikemen.*(If my recruitment ideas are rejected)

Such formations are possible I guess but they would have to wait for a better re-implementation of formations. Tech pairs would work well on some occasions gameplay-wise. The example with priest techs is one, thought it doesn't make much sense from a realism point of view. Techs that could work well in pairs and are realistic are the wall example (faster to build or stronger if I recall right) and the one I gave earlier, ekdromoi (light hoplites - gives speed) or bronze cuirass (Heavier hoplites - gives armor). Unrelated things paired like improved woodcutting or handcart don't make sense either way and their removal was a good decision imo.

I would not replace the human workers, I would just make it so that soldiers can't build or work (maybe with a few exceptions like the roman army camp/siege walls and successor kings laying down civ center foundations). Male workers would be added in addition to female, or just a generic worker that would spawn as either of them. This would make economy harassment more viable and allow bigger starting unit price differentiations without breaking balance. The citizen soldier concept is smart and realistic, but it could also be represented just by strength differences between levy and elite/professional warriors. It's more of a flavor than a needed feature, but it's not game-breaking anyway. It could be slightly rebalanced somehow I guess. Another solution I've thought about is limiting Military Settlements to one per CC (and make CC normally buildable for all civs). Building one would mean the region has settler troops instead of just locals, and represent that the successors had to train locals as well if they wanted vast armies. Techs could increase military settlement number or train speed.

That's not a bad idea. Would take a while though especially since I've just started messing with the game files and no clue how many would be willing to test it. I plan to make a mod in the future anyway but that would also have some more fundamental changes included, like the removal of worker-soldiers for example. I might start with the alpha 17 release as a base and implement these proposed concepts first if I get some people willing to test, then possibly introduce major changes sometime in the future.

Detailed Faction Proposals: PTOLEMIES (EGYPTIANS) CIV CENTER (Core regions such as Alexandria - Only buildable by Heroes) WomanMacedonian Settler PikemanThracian Settler Skirmisher*Macedonian Settler Cavalry Spearman*(LEVY) BARRACKS (Subject People Recruits) Judean Slinger - tier 1Nabataean Camel Archer - tier 2Machimos Pikeman Champion (After Reform)MILITARY SETTLEMENT (Military Settler Colonies) Macedonian Settler PikemanThracian Settler SkirmisherGalatian Settler SwordsmanMacedonian Settler Cavalry SpearmanMERCENARY CAMP (Limited to 1 for all but Carthage) Aetolian Cavalry SkirmisherCretan ArcherCarian Axeman (Sword class)Hellenic Thyreophoros (Spearman or Skirmisher)FORTRESS (Champions) Royal Guard (Agema) CavalryWar ElephantREFORMS Machimoi Reform (Early): Unlocks the slightly weak, but cheap and fast to train Machimos Pikeman Champion.Romanization Reform (Late): New Thorakites Sword Champion replaces Macedonian Settler Pikeman and Machimos Thyreophoros (non-Champion) replaces Machimos Pikeman.TECHS/BONUSES/COMMENTS Farming (The Nile)Naval or Naval/Siege (Great Engineering and Fleets)Mercenaries (Focused on them - Related with their agents recruiting from Greece?)Forts (Focused on Garrisons)SELEUCIDS CIV CENTER (Core regions such as Antioch - Only buildable by Heroes) WomanMacedonian Settler PikemanSyrian Archer*Thessalian Settler Cavalry Spearman*(LEVY) BARRACKS (Subject People Recruits) Syrian Archer - tier 1Median Cavalry Skirmisher - tier 2Arabian Skirmisher - tier 2Scythed Chariot (as one-rank non-champion) - tier 2/3Dahae Horse Archer (Could be cut out to reduce troop types and dublicates) - tier 2/3MILITARY SETTLEMENT (Military Settler Colonies) Macedonian Settler PikemanThracian Settler Rhomphaophoros (Peltast would be a more common but dublicate class)Thessalian Settler Cavalry SpearmanSilver Shield Pikeman ChampionThorakites Sword Champion (After Reform)Cataphract Champion (After Reform)MERCENARY CAMP(Limited to 1 for all but Carthage) Galatian Cavalry Swordsman (most troops types possible actually)Cretan ArcherJudean Thyreophoros Spearman or SlingerFORTRESS (Champions) Hetairos (Companion Cavalry)Armored War ElephantREFORMS Cavalry Reform (Early): Cataphracts Replace Thessalian HorsemenRomanization Reform (Late): New Thorakites Sword Champion AvailableTECHS/BONUSES/COMMENTS Their economy not handicaped in any way, as they controlled wealthy farming and trade regions, but they also faced constant warfare and rebellions could work, along with their focus being a strong all around military civ with many choices.MACEDONIANS CIV CENTER WomanMacedonian PikemanAgrianian Skirmisher*Macedonian Settler Cavalry Spearman*BARRACKS (Native and Closely related Subjects/Allies) Macedonian Pikeman - tier 1Agrianian Skirmisher - tier 1Thessalian Cavalry Spearman - tier 2Odryssian Cavalry Skirmisher - tier 2MERCENARY CAMP(Limited to 1 for all but Carthage) Rhodian SlingerCretan ArcherThracian Rhompaiophoros SwordsmanGalatians and Greek Thyreophoroi were also very common after 280bc if we lack some class. (After Reform)FORTRESS (Champions) Hetairos (Companion Cavalry)Hypaspist/SilvershieldHetairos Aspidophoros (After Reform) - Resilient cavalry skirmisher.Royal Peltast (After Reform) - Could be anything from pikeman/skirmisher/swordsman.Kestros Slinger (After Reform) - High attack slinger, or turned into a slinger tech.War Elephant (Possible with Import elephants tech or with full metal cost at the mercenary camp)REFORMS Early Antigonid Reform: Hetairos Aspidophoros replaces Hetairos. Royal Peltast replaces Hypaspist. Adds extra mercenary units.Late Antigonid Reform: Increases Pikeman hack armor and train speed. Adds Kestros Slinger Champion unit or tech.TECHS/BONUSES/COMMENTS Starting having Alexander's army rooster, then envolving into early and late era Antigonid Macedon with reforms.Give them Penteres (Heavy Warship). Could be with the early reform if not by default.*(If my recruitment ideas are rejected)

Just did added a patch ticket, took a while to figure out but it worked:) Most time spent on searching where to add it while I didn't even had a track account...

Thanks for the info:) How does this work? Devs review the patches and add them if they are approvable? (I was thinking commit had an approval phase before being added to the core files).

I successfully removed the leftover techs on Athenian Gymnasion and Spartan Syssition and it works in game. I've found how to commit them. I edited them with wordpad, is that ok? I'm not sure since I believe there are some issues with such files and some text editors. Edit: Got notepad++, trying to commit them, but I get this error: Commit failed (details follow): POST of '/public/!svn/me': 403 Forbidden (http://svn.wildfiregames.com) Am I doing something wrong or lack some permission?

Never getting answers there.

Anyone currently able/willing to join the Alpha 17 SVN lobby for a game?

I think that armor and attack types do the job now, without artificial bonuses. Like spearman's high pierce damage and high armor help him beat cavalry. Can't get into accurate detail though.

Faction Specifics (Trying to make each faction more unique through historical attributes, part 4/4) Romans More or less balanced faction with somewhat weak cavalry and focus on infantry, siege, and structures. Reforms: - Marian Reforms: Hastati, Triarii, Extraordinarii replaced by (Marian) Legionaries. Then there's a huge number of possible auxiliary units that can be tied to this reform, including Numidian/Gallic/Germanic Cavalry, Syrian/Cretan Archers, War Elephants and more. Equites and Allied horse skirmishers could also be removed by this reform, replaced by new cavalry types. Other: - Gladius: Tech increasing infantry swordsman attack speed (and maybe slightly reducing damage, but overall increasing dps) - Logistics: Barracks or Army camp tech increasing infantry training (and batch training) speed. Their major strength, ability to field and replace big numbers of reliable heavy infantry needs to be represented in game. - Imported Construction Technology: Tech slightly increasing ship/siege/structure hit points and damage. Simulating their common practice of copying whatever worked well from their enemies. Makes me think of the need for an academy type structure for some factions to hold such upgrades. Seleucids Balanced faction focused on military diversity and many available troop choices. Reforms: - "Eastern Cavalry Influence" Reform: Replaces Citizen cavalry lancers with Cataphract Champion Cavalry. After campaigning in the east Antiochus the Great rearmed his line cavalry as Cataphracts. - Romanization Reform: Unlocks Thorakites Champion Swordsmen. Other: - Companions/Hetairoi need to be champions, being their most effective unit winning the flank they fought on even at lost battles. - Other starting champions are Silver Shield Pikemen, Armored Elephants. A silver-shield hypaspist type unit is also possible but might be an overkill. - Chariots as non-champion, one-rank units. See Mauryan example. - Cretan Mercenaries were very common, but there's also the Syrian archers. Not sure on that. - Change Civ Center units: Replace Thyreophoros with Pikeman (Not an early unit for the Seleucids, most Greek/Macedonian citizens would serve in the pike phalanx)Replace Arabian Skirmisher with Syrian Archer or a Greek/Thracian skirmisher (Not an early nor common unit)Replace Cav Skirmisher with Xystophoros Horseman- "Satrapal Levy" Barracks = Subject people's Troops Arabian Skirmisher (although an eastern would be more common)Syrian ArcherMedian Horse SkirmisherDahae Horse Archer (could remove as class conflicts with scythed chariot and they shouldn't be very common, unless scythed chariot turns out melee/able to charge as it was in reality)Scythed Chariot- Military Settler Colonies = Settler Troops Pikeman (Greek/Macedonian Settler)Thracian RhomphaiophorosXystophoros Horseman (Macedonian/Thessalian Settler - Replaces Hetairos as non-champion)Galatian Swordsman, Horseman or Spearman (any could work and quite common)Judean Slinger/Thureophoros or Greek ThureophorosLast but not least, with major proposed changes (some of them might sound too crazy:p): Spartans Powerful, limited infantry, reliable missile troops, weak cavalry and defenses Reforms: - Cleomenian Reforms: Unlocks the Spartan Pikemen. They should be non-champions imo and finally provide the Spartans with a massable line infantry (see bellow). This reform could also provide a farming bonus. Other: - Spartan Hoplite Champions trainable from start, but with a limit (one per house or farm as they owned the land while being full time soldiers). They were an early era force that gave the Spartans the military edge they had. Trainable at the Town Center and Syssition. They could have a fear aura reducing enemy melee attack and/or an inspiration aura for nearby allies. The limit and quite big metal cost, in addition to them being slow-ish should be enough to balance them. - Perioikoi moved to Barracks, which could be renamed to reflect it trains subject/allied units. - Replace Agis - who seems less interesting with no aura - with Cleomenes III, Having an aura buffing pikemen. - Make Skirites champions as they are listed on the editor? Or add Crypteia who could have an ambush attribute (see Iberians). - Add Cretan archers: they used them quite a bit, had close relation with Crete later on, possibly at city phase to reflect that. - Helot Slave workers could be added (at the market?), with an extra bonus to farming or overall, and degenerating health. At low health the could rebel and go gaia. Tech could reduce or remove the degeneration, and healers can be used to keep them at high health. Or a huge "Helot suppression aura" for Crypteia, who trained themselves by terrorizing and murdering Helots. Slaves with similar attributes could be added for other factions as well, but with Spartans having an edge here. That would be all... so far. At last:D I'm very interested in the gameplay-meets-realism part of the game and RTS design in general, if I can be of any use I guess I can learn simple file edits (I've done so before in RTW) to fix some of the noted bugs and hopefully help implement any desired of my proposed changes. I can now go in detail on any of the proposals as well.

More or less agreed on the first part. On the second, if my idea on reorganizing recruitment buildings is rejected, I'm 100% with you.

Faction Specifics (Trying to make each faction more unique through historical attributes, part 3/4) Mauryans Good booming with mass-able cheap troops and special bonuses. Powerful late game units. Reforms: - Not sure, possibly unlocking the heavy infantry champions, since early Indian armies were mostly masses of light troops supported with cavalry, chariots and elephants. Other: - Make All chariots non-champions (maybe excluding Briton ones as a cheap-weak-fast champion). They already have too many champions, chariots we generally ineffective. But keep them at one rank (and make all chariots so). It looks strange with new cart shapes and horses appearing out of nowhere. Could be justified by them being an outdated, so, unupgradable unit. - Elephant archers deserve the champion role more. They could still stay at tier2, an early access champion as a factional bonus. Seeing them hunt also feels strange and while the archer per rank is a nice concept, it also looks strange on upgrade (less so than chariots though). Persians Good economy and defenses, weak, cheap early units and strong cavalry. Reforms: - Late Achaemenid Reforms: Kardakes hoplites, or Greek mercenary hoplites unlocked providing a reliable non-champion melee infantry. Needed with the Immortals trainable from only one structure and from a historical point of view as well. Other: - Add Persian architecture as a default bonus. - One-rank chariots (see Mauryans) - If "import elephants" is not used they could also unlock War Elephants with the reform. - Add Scythian Horse archers, as champions or not, by default or reform, subject to balance. *If realism is considered and early Persian/Mauryan units are weaker, cheaper and faster to train, this gives them by default a slight economic edge, so they need less bonuses compared to other factions. Ptolemies Strong tech, farming, defenses and navy, balanced military. Reforms: - Machimoi Reforms: Ptolemies should get a macedonian pikeman for starters. It took them 100 years to start training the egyptian "machimoi". Then the machimoi could be unlocked with a reform as a special champion. Not stronger, but cheaper and faster to train version of pikemen, perhaps slightly weaker as well. And we have one more unique Champion unit. - Romanization Reforms: Unlocks Thorakites Champion Swordsmen. Other: - Could use a Thracian unit, Thracian settler/mercenaries were very common. Aetolians were also very common and are not represented in game. Perhaps a Thyreophorus. - Civ center training camels and Kushite archers? Greek/Macedonian units make much more sense for a starting and civic army for Ptolemies. See my previous post for more on this. More coming soon

I'm mostly laying down generic concepts here. They are too many to go in detail and some of them would need more thought, especially for the macedonians (see how almost all of my proposals can be tied into the reforms - which isn't bad, they are an all-around civ already with no need for major changes from a gameplay point of view). Most of my ideas are subject to renaming even if i had the direct authority to implement them as I desired. On this example they could be merged into one (they happened over some decades). If not, I'd rather have both of them available. I notice that every time a play them. Imo Civ center/Barracks/Military Settlement/Embassy/Mercenary camp units for most factions need a reorganization. In short something along the lines of: Civ Center: Native melee unit (Plus archer for Persians and Mauryans who would have weak core melee units and had developed early archer warfare) Barracks (Not Seleucids/Ptolemies): Tier1: Native melee unit + Native ranged unit Tier2: Extra native melee/ranged infantry units, Native Cavalry Tier3: On some cases champions (Levy) Barracks (Seleucids/Ptolemies): Tier1: Subject people's melee unit + Subject people's ranged unit Tier2: Extra Subject people's melee/ranged infantry units, Subject people's Cavalry Tier3: On some cases champions Military Settlement (Seleucids/Ptolemies): Settler (Greek/Macedonian/Galatian/Thracian etc) units Mercenary Camp (limited to 1 for all but Carthage - Ptolemies and maybe others could have minor bonuses here): Mercenary units Forts, siege workshops etc stay more or less the same.

I like some of those tech proposals. I'm also thinking that an academy type building is missing, some of the techs I have in mind don't really fit elsewhere. I'm aware. I'll go in more detail when I touch the Roman specifics:)

Faction Specifics (Trying to make each faction more unique through historical attributes, part 2/4) Gauls: An offensive civ with weaker but faster to build structures and a relatively good all around army (similar to Britons). Reforms: - Needs research, possibly around heavier melee units. Other: - Trimarcisia: Barracks tech increasing cavalry hit point regeneration (or later on stamina regeneration). A special tactic they used involving extra mounts and auxiliary servants for horsemen. - Give them back their faster but weaker structures (even with less differences than before). Could also be slightly cheaper. Forts, Towers and Civ Centers could stay at average stats. - A civ bonus or tech representing mass migrations and raids, adding infantry speed or stealing/gaining resources by attacking structures. Iberians: Defensive and raiding/ambushing civ. Reforms: - Needs research. Other: - I don't like the default wall bonus. It's imbalanced, looks strange and prevents desired city-building unless you start deleting the walls. An extra Civ Center default arrow and increase in Civ Center hp would work as maintaining their anti-rush attribute, and coupled with their stronger towers and forts make a good defensive civ. - I thought of a way of implementing their ambush attribute. Iberian units could be detectable at a reduced percentage of enemy unit line of sight instead of the full of it. This could also work for selected units of other civs as well with good ambush abilities. - When building capturing/loyalty is implemented (although I don't really like the concept having experimented with something similar in WC3) Iberian structures could be harder to capture to simulate their fierce resistance to Roman expansionism. Macedonians: Balanced civ with a focus on military. Reforms: - Early Antigonid Reforms: Adds Hetairoi Aspidophoroi champion cavalry skirmisher with a focus on resilience (or replaces Hetairoi with them). The remaining macedonian nobility became more conservative with glorious cavalry charges after decades of constant warfare and a majority of them migrating to the east. - Late Antigonid Reforms: Increases pikeman (hack) armor. Increased focus on infantry and an attempt to counter roman expansion resulted in more numerous and heavier pikemen. Other: - Kestros Slings: Tech greatly increasing slinger attack. Could be included on the late reform or be made an extra champion unit for flavor (there's not any champion slinger unit). - They could use a heavy warship, they at times had strong navies including huge ships. - Royal Peltasts: Champion unit that replaced the hypaspists. Fought as skirmishers, pikemen and shock infantry. Could be tied to the early reform. - They started to heavily use Thracians (even implementing them in the pike phalanx as macedonian numbers went down) and merceneries in general in an attempt to let their population recover. Could work as: An extra thracian unit, a mercenary thureophoros unit, a tech increasing pikeman training speed. Could be tied to the early or late reform depending on what's chosen. - Sarissophoroi light pike-bearing cavalry is an interesting unit left out, I don't know if it could fit in the rooster without a change on how auxiliary/allied/mercenary units are handled. Such a change could bring them to the core rooster and have thessalian cav and other units at a mercenary barracks limited to 1 (excluding carthage and maybe ptolemies who would be able to build more) if something like that is desired for all factions. More coming soon

Thanks, I plan to do so, pretty soon:) Agreed, part 2 will have imperial romans anyway, not late republican (such as Marius). I'll bring up more along with the rest of the factions. Imo they shouldn't necessarily swap out a unit, the effect should depend on the civ they are for and close to what happened in history while keeping in mind balance and variety. It really depends on the map about wood, although a small increase could be nice for light forested maps. Berries do deplete too fast, but I think it's fine as a design choice, I've never had an issue on changing to hunting/farming/fishing towards their depletion.

Faction Specifics (Trying to make each faction more unique through historical attributes, part1/4) Athenians Athens as a faction with naval strength (especially mid-game), good tech/infantry/ranged units and an expand & protect focus. Reforms: - Iphicratian Reforms, instead of the (silly imo) "train units from ships" bonus, should give speed bonuses to infantry units. Iphicrates improved Hoplite mobility and focused on skirmishers. Makes sense for a Civ with weak cavalry that focuses on expanding and protecting it's colonies. Other: - Colonization (Civ Bonus): Civ Centers Cheaper or build faster - Athenian Empire (Civ Bonus): Civ Centers, Triremes or both provide a small tickle of metal. Athens' main strategy was founding colonies/allying coastal towns and protecting/taxing them. - Philosopher (Champion Healer): New unit that functions as a priest but also has an aura or empowerment skill increasing construction/train time/tech time. - Chorigoi (Sponsors): Dock tech reducing Trireme cost. Notice how the above proposals co-relate with the expand & protect focus. - Champion Hoplite "Logades": Historical elite Athenian unit with the same function instead of City Guards. I wouldn't like seeing an army of "City Guards" attacking a town. - Replace Cretan Archers with native/marine Athenian archers or with reasonably downgraded (non-champion) Scythian Archers. Alternatives: - If the reforms idea is not implemented an "Iphicratids" tech (the special boots he introduced) could add infantry unit speed. - If the Philosopher unit is not implemented, a "Philosophy" tech could make techs slightly cheaper or faster to research. Or increase unit line of sight. Britons: An offensive civ with weaker but faster to build structures and a relatively good all around army (somewhat lacking cavalry). Reforms: - Needs Research Other: - Crossbreeding: Kennel tech increasing War Dog attack/Hp - Woad: Temple tech adding a fear aura to melee infantry (decreasing the attack speed or damage of melee enemies in range). - Give them back their faster built but weaker structures (even with less differences than before). Could also be slightly cheaper. Forts, Towers and Civ Centers could stay at average stats. Carthaginians: Focusing on navy, trade, mercenaries and strong defenses. Reforms: - Barcid/Late Armies, increases melee infantry armor and reduces mercenary cost (Through alliances with tribes and city states). Other: - Colonization (Civ Bonus): (Like Athens) Cheaper or faster to build Civ Centers or add the existing tech as a default bonus - Add exploration (unit/ship line of sight) as default Civ Bonus - Mass Production: Fortress tech increasing siege weapon train speed. They often had huge numbers of them. - Give them back their wall bonuses even if lesser and/or a tech increasing tower, fortress, barracks and wall hp. They had massive walls with built-in barracks, stables and elephant stables. - If we want Carthage to be the ultimate naval faction, let's not handicap them by having naval architects only at/for the military dock. - Naval Shipyard could also garrison a number of ships and possibly get an attack. More coming soon

Some General Suggestions and Tech Proposals: - Move all cavalry units (besides the starting scout) to the town phase. That's what all major RTS do for fast units, they have them at tier2+. A village wouldn't have a cavalry force anyway. Fits nicely with my stronger and costlier cavalry proposal as well. - Make Trade Ships able to garrison 20-30 units. 15 is too little for the ship closer to/ment to function as transport. - Give every faction reform techs. I can provide detailed information on this for all factions besides Celt and Iberian ones (would need some research). More info at faction specific proposals. - Add back the rank-up techs, but make them per unit-type and place them in the middle line of structure interface bellow each unit. This way you can make some of your units harder drilled by default and keep others better as workers. Makes sense historically as well, like a choice of core army units and simple levy units. It also gives the equivalent of Age Of Empires, medium/heavy/champion style upgrades. Or: - Paired techs could work fine per unit, like Ekdromoi (Hoplite speed)/Bronze Cuirass (Hoplite armor). I can come up with such for most units if it's desired, - Naval Prestige: Tech for Hellenistic factions (Macedon, Seleucid, Egypt) related to constructing big warships faster/cheaper/stronger. Macedon could use a top tier ship. It had a very strong navy including huge ships for a while. - Expert Sailors: Dock tech for Carthage, Athens and Ptolemies increasing ship speed. - Fanaticism/Ritual Sacrifice/Afterlife: Temple tech slightly increasing all unit attack speed and/or gather rate (like 5%) - Coinage: Market tech providing a tickle of metal income per ally (could also be shared between researching player and allies) - Fire Arrows: Tech making arrow firing units/ships/structures more effective vs ships/siege and wooden or all structures) - Import Elephants: Market tech unlocking War Elephant Champions for some factions (maybe with a limit). Some factions like Macedon, Persia and Rome, especially the former, occasionally used War Elephants. - Elephant Bells: Fortress/Elephant Stable tech adding a fear aura to elephants (or increasing an existing one. A fear aura should reduce nearby enemy damage or attack speed. - Composite Bows: Barracks or Blacksmith tech increasing archer, horse archer (and possibly ship/structure) range for Persians, Seleucids, Mauryans (named longbows here) and maybe Ptolemies. Could also work for roman auxiliary archers if they get implemented. - God choice: Several linked techs at the temple. Choosing a patron god would provide bonuses linked to the culture their worship would develop and their supposed attributes. Like Poseidon (Ships and Cavalry), Vulcan (Weapons/Armor) upgrades, Demeter (Farming), Melquart (Trade) etc. A number from 3 to anything per temple would work and also be a nice base for a mythology mode. - Map based Auxiliaries/Mercenaries/Satrapal Levies. An option to set "region" per map during creation on the editor. So if the map is set in Gaul, Carthaginians would hire Gallic mercenaries (in a single embassy structure), Rome auxiliaries, Seleucids/Persians train Gallic levies instead of some of their non core units. I guess this one goes a bit too far:p More Coming Soon

For the second part I have several suggestions on mostly new things rather than needed fixes and current gameplay. A balancing template (stolen from here and adjusted accordingly): This system allows for easy balance changes and understanding of unit stats and attributes. With it each unit has it's stats adjusted according to it's level (L). Exact modifiers per stat can change, those suggested should be close to current gameplay balance. Say units prove too expensive, you can adjust the resource cost modifier to something lower universally. If kill rates make the game too fast, dps can also be reduced universally. Pop Cost: 1xL Resource Cost: 100xL Train Time: 10xL Hp: 100xL Dps: 10xL Armor: 5xL Movement: Average Range: Melee Skills: N/A Then each unit can have some of it's stats modified to give it a more specific role. It's easy to keep track on how much and in what fields a unit is changed. I'm not going to mess with armor and attack types to keep it relatively simple for now. For example: Spearman (level 1) Pop Cost: 1 Resource Cost: 100 Train Time: 10 sec Hp: 120 (100 +20% bonus for spearman class) Dps: 10 (20 attack with a 2 sec cooldown as spear is a big weapon) Armor: 7 (5 +40% bonus for spearman class) Movement: Average Range: Melee (could be slightly larger, and even more for pikemen. Pikemen could also have lower collision to work better in groups, at least until syntagma formation is properly implemented) Skills: N/A Then for each faction more specifics could be applied for more historical flavor and varied gameplay: Sparabara (Persian Spearman) (level 1) Pop Cost: 1 Resource Cost: 80 (100 -20% as an untrained levy) Train Time: 8 sec (10 -20% as an untrained levy) Hp: 120 (100 + 20% bonus) Dps: 8 (10 -20% as an untrained levy) Armor: 5 (Removed bonus as it's a light unit compared to most spearmen) Movement: Average Range: Melee Skills: N/A Now, to a Cavalry unit: Cavalry Spearman (level 2) Pop Cost: 2 (Cavalry units were more rare, stronger per unit and there's a need to maintain the mount as well) Resource Cost: 200 Train Time: 20 sec Hp: 200 Dps: 24 (20 + 20% - until charge is implemented, since it's an offensive unit it needs an attack boost) Armor: 10 Movement: Fast (As mounted) Range: Melee Skills: N/A I have ideas on balancing each unit type this way, but will avoid making this part any longer. *A note here, I think cavalry also need a transported size of 2 (even more for elephants/large siege). The Persian skill in transporting cavalry which is translated in a (silly imo) bonus of training cavalry from ships could then be shifted to persian cavalry units having a trasported size of 1. *Units with bigger collision size need slightly better stats since they can be attacked by more enemies at the same time. Also lowering costs and train times like in the Persian Spearman example isn't perfect with the "citizen soldiers as workers" concept since it gives some factions an early game economic bonus, but imo it's a nice flavor and should be balanced on other ways. It partly does with having weaker troops that will die easier by rushes giving stat-boosting ranks to tougher units. More coming soon