Prodigal Son

You're right on specific resource bonuses, but faster train times, reduced costs, trader speeds etc are economic bonuses as well. If you have any specific or altered suggestions for some civ you're welcome to say it, preferably in the specific threads:)

Updated with rather major edits.

Actually I'm considering to remove it as it doesn't have a proper model and moving siege to the fortress like the rest of the civs. Not sure yet. Also I'm not listing Library/Theatron as unique structures since several factions have them and the former will be added to all Greek/Successor/Roman civs (maybe called academy for some).

Introduction This is a general guideline on unit availability and roles as the game progresses. Some civilizations have variations in unit strengths, attributes and might miss some unit classes but this topic aims to give an average overview on how the game works.This is a work in progress and many of it's parts might change. Village Phase Players might choose to skip Village Phase military and go straight for the Town Phase, relying on palisade defenses or withdrawing to the Civ Center for protection if attacked. - Spearmen (50 15 1 ) are the only military unit available in the Village Phase, reflecting the dominance of Hoplite-style (and generally melee) tactics early in the game's timeframe. This also makes balancing easier than having civs start with different combinations of unit types. Spearmen can be used defensively or to rush the opponent. Later on they are still usefull as average line infantry and a cavalry counter. Town Phase A variety of possible units and strategies starts to become available at this point. - Skirmishers (30 40 1 ) become available, as an easy to mass ranged support unit and a threat to Spearman-only armies, as the introduction of Peltasts and other light troops brought the end of Hoplite dominance. They also counter other melee infantry units and War Elephants later in the game. - Archers (30 20 1 ) fill a better all around ranged support role compared to skirmishers due to their superior range, but take much longer to train and are very weak if caught in melee, especially vs cavalry. Upgraded with fire arrows they become a semi-siege weapon in the late game. - Pikemen (50 20 2 ) are a slow hard-hitting anti-melee unit, exceptionally strong against cavalry. They will easily overcome Spearman, Melee Cavalry and often Swordsman armies, but are in need of support against more varied forces. Out of the three melee infantry types, they are the most vulnerable to missile fire. - Light Cavalry (100 3 ) present a viable option for raiding and countering ranged (and later siege) units. A good farming economy will be needed to mass them, so they will probably come in small numbers till later in the game. Other melee units and especially Spearmen and Pikemen will easily defeat them if they reach them. - Cavalry Skirmishers (60 40 3 ) are effective in hit and run tactics, especially vs support units like Villagers and Traders, but are vulnerable to Light Cavalry and melee infantry if they get caught. - Defense Towers become available as an early form of defense. - Additional Civil Centres can be constructed, allowing expansion. - Light Warships become available, kickstarting naval warfare. City Phase Most of the tech tree is unlocked at this point. - Swordsmen (40 40 2 ) are unlocked as a general purpose infantry unit with high base attack. - Slingers (30 30 1 ) provide excellent ranged support and counter other ranged units but are helpless if caught in melee, especially vs cavalry. They have the longest train time among ranged infantry types. - Heavy Cavalry (70 80 3 ) are tough and expensive general purpose melee units, almost only threatened by anti-Cavalry units. - Camel Riders (60 40 2 ) are a great counter to cavalry but generally weaker against infantry compared to horse cavalry . - Cavalry Archers (60 50 3 ) are very effective in hit and run tactics, but are vulnerable to Cavalry and melee infantry if they get caught. - War Elephants (200 75 5 ) are costly beasts with a good siege ability and devastating against most melee units, but relatively weak against massed skirmishers and anti-cavalry units. - Chariot Archers are ranged anti-melee units, weak to other ranged units. - Rams, the first Siege Units become available. - Fortresses become available as an advanced form of defense. - Medium Warships become available. - Most Unique Units and Mercenaries are unlocked. Imperial Phase The entire tech-tree is unlocked at this point. - Some Unique Units and Mercenaries are unlocked. - Advanced Siege Units become available. - Heavy Warships become available.

Qwerty if you consider the corrals worthless because they require extra micro and because the late game needs your attention elsewhere, why suggest adding micro to farms as well? That would just have the same result for farms. Imo corrals actually work pretty well if you're willing to manage them, but as a macro player I avoid them to focus on other things. But when I experimented using them, I ended up with an insane food production using only a few horsemen in the late game and a mass of extra sheep filling my base. Btw editing the game files for my mod I came across an idea for fully implementing the corrals in their supposed role: Sheep can get a garrison-type aura adding a food tickle and get allowed to be garrisoned only in corrals (if that's not already the case). I think it's possible without extra code.

(Old note, still valid to a point): I'm posting both civs in one thread to help discussion on further differentiating them. Which civ bonuses do you believe fit better with each civs unique techs and units, or historical attributes? New suggestions are welcome as well, as with any civ. GAULS The Gauls are a melee infantry, cavalry and economic Civ. BRITONS The Britons are a relatively balanced Civ with an edge on economy and scouting, lacking in siege and naval power.

History: The Iberians were a people of mysterious origins and language, with a strong tradition of horsemanship and metalworking. A relatively peaceful culture, they usually fought in other's battles only as mercenaries. However, they proved tenacious when Rome sought to take their land and freedom from them, and employed pioneering guerrilla tactics and flaming javelins as they fought back. Gameplay: The Iberians have powerful defenses, helping them to survive until they utilize their strong force of agile late game units. Their fortifications are some of the most powerful available to any civ, but also very expensive in stone. The stone mining bonus can therefore be used to get more of those, or to field a larger force of strong Slingers. Swordsmen, Cavalry and Javelin units are also very effective, especially the Iberian Unique Unit which benefits from several technologies and also partly covers their weakness in siege weapons. Civilization Bonuses: - Villagers +25% stone mining rate (stone fortifications). - Civil Centres, Fortresses, Defense Towers +25% attack and hit points, +50% stone cost (stone fortifications). - Weapon Upgrades free: Requires a Blacksmith and the appropriate Phase for each tech (Toledo steel, advanced metalurgy). - Cavalry -10% cost in City Phase, -20% cost in Imperial Phase (horse abundance). - Team Bonus: Storehouse -50% build time (land of great riches, Greek and Phoenician colonies). Unique Units: - Noble Cavalry (Cavalry Skirmisher, effective against structures). Unique Technologies: - Guerrilla (Soldiers +10% speed, +25% vision). - Soliferrum (Javelin armed units +20% attack). - Cantabrian Circle (Javelin Cavalry +1 all armor types). Unique Structures: - Revered Monument (Units in range +10% attack). Units:

History: Founded in 322 B.C. by Chandragupta Maurya, the Mauryan Empire was the first to rule most of the Indian subcontinent, and was one of the largest and most populous empires of antiquity. Its military featured bowmen who used the long-range bamboo longbow, fierce female warriors, chariots, and thousands of armored war elephants. Its philosophers, especially the famous Acharya Chanakya, contributed to such varied fields such as economics, religion, diplomacy, warfare, and good governance. Under the rule of Ashoka the Great, the empire saw 40 years of peace, harmony, and prosperity. Gameplay: The Mauryans focus on superior elephant units and great archers. They can quickly grow in numbers or phase advance if left unchecked, able to produce huge numbers of infantry and elephant units. Their cavalry is somewhat lacking though, and their good late game economy can be vulnerable to raiding if not managed carefully. Civilization Bonuses: - Villagers, Archers, -10% cost for each phase researched (huge population and archer numbers). - Civil Centres +5 population (ancient cities). - A Worker Elephant added to starting units (worker elephants). - Structures -20% build time and hit points (wooden construction). - Walls cost wood instead of stone (wooden walls). - Team Bonus: Elephant Units -20% train time (elephant abundance). Unique Units: - Elephant Archer (Very tough archer). Unique Technologies: - Pacifism (Villagers +20% all gather rates, Infantry -10% hit points and attack). - Elephant Herds (Elephant Units -2 population cost). - Wootz Steel (Swordsmen, Light Cavalry +15% attack). - Fire Protection (Structures regenerate 2 hit points per second). Unique Structures: - Elephant Stables (Trains all the available Elephant Units). - Edict Pillar of Ashoka (Nearby Villagers +10% work rates). Units:

History: The Persian Empire, when ruled by the Achaemenid dynasty, was one of the greatest empires of antiquity, stretching at its zenith from the Indus Valley in the east to Greece in the west. The Persians were the pioneers of empire-building of the ancient world, successfully imposing a centralized rule over various peoples with different customs, laws, religions and languages, and building a cosmopolitan army made up of contingents from each of these nations. Gameplay: The Persians field a fearsome cavalry force, great archers and a good variety of support units. They lack good heavy infantry and need superior numbers to hold the line, especially early on. Their good economy should eventually allow them to amass a huge force, decent numbers of powerful units or something in between. In the late game they have a weakness in siege weapons but get access to a couple of cheap, fast to train unique units and their cavalry becomes even more powerful. Civilization Bonuses: - Archers +10% range and vision, -25% train time (eastern archery). - Fields, Corrals, Farmsteads, Stables -50% build time (qanats, large cavalry force). - Maximum population +10% (huge empire). - Heavy Cargo Ship free: Cargo Ship +10 transport capacity, requires a Dock (massive naval invasions). - Team Bonus: Traders +20% speed (Royal Road). Unique Units: - Anusyia (Fast trained, tough archer). - Takabara (Cheap infantry with high attack). Unique Technologies: - Military Reforms (Soldiers +1 all armor types). - Immortals (Anusyia -70% train time). - Persian Architecture (Structures +30% hit points, +2 all armor levels). Unique Structures: - Apadana (Adds a trickle of all resource types. Trains and upgrades Anusyia). Units:

History: The Romans controlled one of the largest empires of the ancient world, stretching at its peak from southern Scotland to the Sahara Desert, and containing between 60 million and 80 million inhabitants, one quarter of the Earth's population at that time. Rome also remained one of the strongest nations on earth for almost 800 years. The Romans were the supreme builders of the ancient world, excelled at siege warfare and had an exquisite infantry and navy. Gameplay: The Romans field the most effective heavy infantry force with great Swordsmen and formidable Spearmen. Early on they have a shortage in economic bonuses, cavalry and ranged units. As the game goes on though they get access to several discounts, auxiliary units to fill in missing roles, good siege weapons, navy and defenses and most importantly, their infantry gets even more powerful and fast trained. Their unique unit can be used to protect their army from other, potentially dangerous unique units. Civilization Bonuses: - Barracks Units upgrade through shared technologies (Roman legions, Camillan to Marian eras). - Swordsmen -20% train time (large manpower pool used for heavy infantry recruits). - Start with a Skirmisher, instead of a Light Cavalry scout (shortage of cavalry). - Skirmishers, Heavy Cavalry +1 pierce armor (Parma shields). - Structures, Ships, Siege Weapons -10% cost in City Phase, -20% in Imperial Phase (technological adaptation). - Team Bonus: Barracks -25% build time for each phase researched (large manpower, training of allied/subject forces). Unique Units: - Consular Bodyguard (Guard Cavalry. x1.5 damage vs unique units). Unique Technologies: - Dictatorship (Consular Bodyguard +10% attack and speed). - Logistics (Barracks infantry -60% train time). - Gladius Hispaniensis (Swordsmen -20% attack rate). Unique Structures: - Academy (Researches academic technologies with defense, military and siege benefits). - Army Camp (Trains Auxiliary units. Has no territory restrictions. Replaces the Stables.). Units:

History: The Ptolemaic dynasty was a Macedonian Greek royal family which ruled the Ptolemaic Empire in Egypt during the Hellenistic period. Their rule lasted for 275 years, from 305 BC to 30 BC. They were the last dynasty of ancient Egypt. Gameplay: The Ptolemies are a versatile civilization with an edge on navy, siege weapons, defenses and mercenaries. Their bonuses are well spread throughout the game, kickstarting through structure discounts and improved farming, to a varied techtree and finally a fast trained metal-free unique unit, cheaper mechanical units and religious technologies. Civilization Bonuses: - Villagers +30% farming rate (the Nile). - Temple Technologies -50% cost and research time (pharaonic/Isis cult, use of religion). - Heavy Cavalry +20% hit points (Royal Agema Companions). - Houses, Farmsteads, Corrals, Storehouses no resource cost, increased build time (clay structures). - Team Bonus: Ships, Siege Units -10% cost (center of knowledge). Unique Units: - Machimos Phalangites (Fast trained, cheap Pikeman. x2 damage vs cavalry units). Unique Technologies: - Machimoi Epilektoi (Machimos Phalangites +10% attack, hit points and vision). - Mercenary Army (Mercenaries -75% train time). - Ptolemaic Garrisons (Fortresses +30% arrows per garrisoned soldier). Unique Structures: - Academy (Researches academic technologies with defense, military and siege benefits). - Lighthouse (Has large vision and increases the vision of friendly ships by 50%). Units:

History: The Macedonian-Greek dynasty that ruled most of Alexander's former empire. Gameplay: The Seleucids have a strong military, with access to most units allowing the use of various strategies, as well as one of the most capable cavalry forces in the game. Unopposed they can grow into a late game powerhouse, having access to several unique discounts and most shared technologies. Civilization Bonuses: - Civic Centers, Farms -20% cost and build time (superior city founders, fertile Mesopotamia). - Traders, Cargo Ships -40% cost (holding the trade routes between east and west). - Bloodlines free, Cavalry +20% hit points. (heavy Nisean warhorses). - Team Bonus: Cavalry -20% train time (large cavalry forces and horse herds). Unique Units: - Catafract (Armored Cavalry. x1.5 damage vs melee infantry). Unique Technologies: - Cavalry Reform (Catafracts and Heavy Cavalry +1 all armor levels). - Infantry Reform (Swordsmen +1 all armor levels, -20% train time). - Katoikoi (Soldiers -10% cost and train time). Unique Structures: - Academy (Researches academic technologies with defense, military and siege benefits). Units:

History: Macedonia was an ancient Greek kingdom, centered in the northeastern part of the Greek peninsula. Under the leadership of Alexander the Great, Macedonian forces and allies took over most of the world they knew, including Egypt, Persia and parts of the Indian subcontinent, allowing a diffusion of Hellenic and eastern cultures for years to come. Gameplay: The Macedonians are a military focused civilization. All of their available land units get some bonuses, with the most powerful being their force of melee units. Their unique unit, the Hetairos is a strong and fast moving heavy cavalry unit, useful in many ways if somewhat expensive. Their Villagers benefit from the speed and attack bonus, making them better hunters and slightly better gatherers in general, as a bonus to balance their relatively weak early economy. If they manage to get strong out of the early stages of the game the Macedonians are a capable power, both in offense and defense, with cavalry, most infantry, fortresses, mercenaries and siege weapons being far better than average and no obvious late game weaknesses. Civilization Bonuses: - Land units +10% attack and speed (combined arms, fast moving armies, hardy populace). - Skirmishers +10% hit points (northern tribal light infantry). - Team Bonus: All units -10% metal cost (standardized currency, Macedonian silver and gold mines). Unique Units: - Hetairos (Agile heavy cavalry). Unique Technologies: - Antigonid Reforms (Pikemen and Mercenaries -50% train time). - Hetairoi Aspidophoroi (Upgrades Hetairoi to Hetairoi Aspidophoroi, with +1 hack, +2 pierce armor). - Kestros Sling (Slingers +20% attack). - Fetters Of Hellas (Fortress +50% hit points). Unique Structures: - Academy (Researches academic technologies with defence, military and siege benefits). Units:

History: Sparta was a prominent city-state in ancient Greece, and its dominant military power on land from circa 650 B.C. Spartan culture was obsessed with military training and excellence, with rigorous training for boys beginning at age seven. Thanks to its military might, Sparta led a coalition of Greek forces during the Greco-Persian Wars, and won over Athens in the Peloponnesian Wars, though at great cost. Gameplay: The Spartans field powerful Spearmen with the unique ability to counter all melee units. As a trade-off their Spearmen take longer to train. Their Villagers and Skirmishers are weaker but also cheaper, contributing to an improved early economy and numerous ranged support for the hard to mass Spearmen. Spartan siege, defenses and cavalry are lacking and their shared technologies are rather limited, but Skirites help with raiding and countering ranged units and their unique technologies can be researched for free at the Gerousia, at slow rates though. While sacrificing some versatility for brute force, their initially predictable and relatively small field armies can prove hard to stop. Civilization Bonuses: - Spear infantry x1.5 damage to melee infantry, +30% train time (superior training, sword training, life of soldiery). - Barracks +10 population (Spartans housed in barracks from a young age). - Villagers and Skirmishers -20% resource cost and hit points (Helot slaves as workers and skirmishers). - The Spartans can't build stone walls (had no walls until the very late stages of their independence). - Maximum population -10% (manpower shortage). - Team Bonus: Soldiers +5% attack (inspired by fighting alongside Spartan warriors). Unique Units: - Royal Guard (Powerful Spearman. x1.5 damage vs melee units). - Skirites (Agile Swordsman. x1.5 damage vs ranged infantry). Unique Technologies: - Linothorax (Royal Guard +10% speed). - Land Reform (Villagers +25% farming rate). - Social Reform (Melee infantry and mercenary units -20% train time, Pikeman unlocked). - Defence Reform (Stone Walls unlocked). Unique Structures: - Gerousia (Holds the Spartan unique technologies, which cost no resources but have increased research times). Units:

History: As the cradle of Western civilization and the birthplace of democracy, Athens was famed as a center for the arts, learning and philosophy. The Athenians were also powerful warriors, particularly at sea. At its peak, Athens dominated a large part of the Hellenic world for several decades. Gameplay: The Athenians field a relatively balanced military and a powerful navy. Their economy is one of the strongest, with several bonuses and their defenses formidable. No branch of their land forces is top tier tough, with their cavalry being possibly the most lacking one. Their Unique Unit is a fast moving spearman able to handle any threat without being severely outclassed. Civilization Bonuses: - Town, City, Imperial Phase -20% cost. (huge city, cultural advancements). - Villagers +15% metal mining rate (Laurion silver mines). - Special Structures -50% cost and build time (culture, philosophy, golden age of pericles). - Stone Walls -50% build time, buildable in neutral territory (long walls of Athens). - Team Bonus: Warships -20% build time (Delian league). Unique Units: - Reformed Hoplite (Agile spearman, x1.5 vs cavalry units). Unique Technologies: - Iphicratean Reforms (Infantry Units +10% speed). - Imperialism (Civil Centres generate 1 metal every 2 seconds). - Chorigoi (Triremes -50% metal cost). Unique Structures: - Academy (Researches academic technologies with defence, military and siege benefits). - Theatron (Structures +25% vision and territory influence). Units:

History: Carthage, a city-state in modern-day Tunisia, was a formidable force in the western Mediterranean, eventually taking over much of North Africa and modern-day Spain in the third century B.C. The sailors of Carthage were among the fiercest contenders on the high seas, and masters of naval trade. They deployed towered War Elephants on the battlefield to fearsome effect, and had defensive walls so strong, they were never breached. Gameplay: The Carthaginians are an expansive and naval power. They are great at scouting and rapidly constructing tough settlements. Their main unit choices are very limited, but they can call upon their large host of mercenaries if they have secured enough metal. Besides their stronger defensive structures, their temples contribute to town defenses by their quick training of powerful Sacred Band units, who are usually not cost efficient enough to find other uses. Their Elephant unique unit and their good siege weapons allow for devastating counterattacks when well supported. Carthaginian fleets can be large and fast moving making them one of the best naval civilizations Civilization Bonuses: - Cavalry, Ships +20% vision, +10% speed (exploration, good cavalry). - Villagers +15% wood gathering rate (fleet building). - Fortresses, Walls, Barracks +25% hitpoints (strong walls including fortified barracks). - Civic Structures, Docks, Markets -20% build time (colonization). - Team Bonus: Cargo Ships +20% speed (sea trade, troop transports). Unique Units: - Forest Elephant (Powerful Elephant). - Sacred Band Infantry (Tough, fast trained spearman. x1.5 vs cavalry units. Trained at the Temple). - Sacred Band Cavalry (Tough, fast trained cavalry. Trained at the Temple). Unique Technologies: - Xanthippian Reforms (Soldiers +10% attack). - Recruiting Agents (Mercenaries -25% metal cost). - Mass Production (Siege Weapons -25% build time). Unique Structures: - Academy (Researches academic technologies with defence, military and siege benefits). - Embassy (Hires mercenary units in addition to the Fortress. Replaces the Stables). Units:

Currently, no standard version is available (the first one will probably come with Alpha 18 19), but you can get the current work in progress one following the instructions bellow. To install the mod: Get a working installation of the SVN version of the game.Follow this link.Click on "download zip" (at the bottom right).Unzip it into binary/data/mods of your SVN installation.To keep track of changes without having to re-download the mod every time, you can follow this guide. (You need an account, cloning the directory and then sync to automatically get updates)Keep in mind that the mod is far from done. Many concepts are partial, balance isn't ready yet and bugs exist. The mod might even be unplayable until fixed if SVN updates break something. Known Issues: - Using the in game Structure Tree will result in an error (no crush though). According to Leper this is a strange issue on the engine's end, so nothing I can fix now.

Ancient Empires is a mod for 0 A.D. Empires Ascendant, aiming at historical authenticity and gameplay rebalance. Currently I'm working alone on it, but if you are interested in helping out you can contact me. Feedback and brainstorming are very welcome as well, you can check the specific threads and add your suggestions. The mod's main goals, changes and features are listed bellow. Gameplay: The mod is closer to Age Of Kings than any other RTS game, to which the tech-tree layout and parts of gameplay are pretty similar. However many concepts from 0 A.D. have been maintained, together with ideas taken from other games, the community, as well as several of mine. The game pace is slower and a bit more macro focused compared to the main game in almost every aspect. Counters (mostly soft) are reintroduced in many cases, inspired mostly from historical unit roles. For more details check here. Civilizations: For now no new civs have been added, as balancing the existing 12 is already hard enough. The tech-tree is made more clear by having a majority of common techs and units available at standardized structures and Civ specific ones available at the Fortress (with a few exceptions clarified at the history screen). Each Civ gets a mostly new set of bonuses and champion units, which are now changed as a concept. Links to Civ threads: Athen Brit Cart Gaul Iber Mace Maur Pers Ptol Rome Sele Spart Units: Unique units, the replacement of champions, aren't necessarily the most powerful units a Civ can have. Each civ gets a historically determined base rooster from the shared units, which range from cheap Skirmishers to powerful War Elephants. Unique units often come to fill missing unit roles or add new ones and are chosen from rare units that were dissimilar in function to other, more common units. So there won't be many unit duplicates per faction, like Spearman and Superspearman with the exact same role, only different in power and cost. Some exceptions exist, as this is a still a work in progress feature. Besides unique units, some Civs have slightly varied versions of the common units. For example, in place of the weak, basic spearman, the Athenians get the more costly and powerful Hoplite. Random Maps: The mod will focus on random maps instead of skirmish maps, to reduce copy-paste build orders and keep scouting important. Major Changes: Some core features of 0 A.D. have been removed or majorly altered. Citizen-Soldiers are gone now, to make raiding the economy a more valid strategy and allow for bigger price/attribute differences between units and civs without breaking balance too much. Female citizens have been replaced with male ones until a possibility for different sexes per unit is implemented (see help needed). Structure capturing was never implemented in the mod and probably won't be. Territory influence has a softer function. It is needed for the construction of some structures and prevents enemies from building in it, but most structures can be constructed outside of it. Line of sight and attack range are generally much lower than in the main game. Starting stone and metal mines are moved right outside of the players starting territory in most random maps instead of being close to the civil centre. You can find many more ideas here (not all of those fit with the mod's concept though).

I'm looking for more specific ideas, not a general concept. Civs without skirmishers get archers or slingers which train slower but cost less resources. Testing will show if one of the two is op. Btw I've removed all skirmishers and cavalry from the CC (exceptions are seleucids and ptolemies with some town phase troops) and only pers/mau can train archers at the CC. The rest of the civs only train spearmen and females there. (I think those ptolemaic archers train at 7 secs and are available at the civ center and cost no food, things which make them relatively more spammable than my skirmishers early on). There's still the chance I'll remove citizen soldiers overall at some point, so such things will effect balance far less. Already removed the Iberian walls and replaced them with a slightly buffed CC. Still looking for extra unique techs and reforms for them and the Mauryans.Champions are indeed buffed and more health is one of their changes.I'm sure it's hard to reach perfect balance, that can't be done anyway unless the civs are clones of each other, but I believe I've got a clue on the effects of most of my design choices and where testing proves me wrong, things will change. Testing will be needed indeed:).

I've decided to go one step further and rebalance the entire combat system. Units besides heroes, ships and siege are ready besides fine-tuning. I've tried to define unit roles by real attributes. A few hints on it: Pikemen have greater attack and range (two handed pike) than Spearmen but reduced pierce armor (smaller shields).Swordsmen have the same defense stats with Spearmen, but soft counter them with a higher attack. Pikemen soft counter Spearmen and Swordsmen. However this doesn't mean they're stronger in general. Pikemen are slower and more vulnerable to ranged units. Spearmen are better than Pikemen vs cavalry spears and slightly faster. Swordsmen with their hack attack are better vs structures (assault infantry) and are slightly faster than Spearmen.Skirmishers have much shorter-ranged, heavier and slower attack than Archers and Slingers, while Slingers start with the same range as Archers but get more range upgrades with ranks.All citizen soldiers cost 50 food, but their train times and secondary resource costs are balanced by the expense of their equipment and their drill time. For example, Skirmishers cost 40 wood and train at 8 seconds, Archers 30 wood but train at 12 seconds (cheaper equipment but more training needed for Archers).Citizen soldiers of the same class will have exactly the same stats for all factions, unless altered by civ bonuses. Champions in many cases will be further differentiated regardless of their class (wip).The civs are coming along nicely, I'd love reform and unique tech suggestions on the Mauryans and the Iberians though. Everything is still subject to balance and changes, playtesters are very welcome. I'll update this with detailed general and civ changes pretty soon.

Imo buildings are strong not because they have too much hp or armor, but because they (still) have too high of an attack when garrisoned (compare it to AOM or AOE games for example). Actually most buildings have too low of a hack armor, often at the same levels with their crush one, making melee units better siege weapons than the actual ones due to massability. I see more of a problem when about 15 swordsmen easily kill a CC than 40 archers. What I'd do and will do for my mod is buffing their defense a little but reducing the bonus arrows per unit. Defensive buildings should this way be what they are meant for: - Hard to kill, but not killers. - Protecting chock points or economy (with some fire power and garrisons slots for civilians). - Able to last until help arrives if you're not too slow or your army is at the other side of the map, giving some response time. It should also reduce the effectiveness of forward building which seems to be the dominant strategy.

True, I didn't mean you said so, it's just the impression they gave trained being at the elite rank and named "commandos". Still they were spearmen and Spartans already have great spearmen and had no dedicated sword units, so I'm concerned about it. Could do it for balance reasons if needed and no better solution is thought of though.

Skiritae are a bit tricky. They were certainly not swordsmen, but spearmen who at first fought as hoplites and then as ekdromoi (light hoplites with no body armor) when the Spartans forced them to do so in need of a more flexible flank guard. They were not some super elite unit, just the fighting men of the town Skiris, to the north of Sparta. What I'm thinking about is leaving them as swordmen, since Sparta is already too spear-focused, but would that justify buffing them in a role that wasn't even their real one? Any better ideas?

All changes so far (reduced detail to save space) MISC CHANGES CARTHAGE CELTS ATHENIANS SPARTANS MACEDONIANS SELEUCIDS PTOLEMIES ROMANS

Rural Lifestyle {"value": "ResourceGatherer/Rates/food.grain", "add": 0.25}, {"value": "ResourceGatherer/Rates/food.meat", "add": 0.5} Female Gather Rates <food.grain>0.5</food.grain> <food.meat>1</food.meat> Male Gather Rates <food.grain>0.25</food.grain> <food.meat>1</food.meat> So I've mistakenly added +100% instead of +50% at the farming rate. That would make them equals and that extra 10% you monitored should be from the female auras. Thanks for the find. SPARTANS (more experimental than the rest so far) Laws of Lycurgus civ bonus: All upgrades at the Syssition cost no resources, but have double research time.Feminine Mystique civ bonus: unchanged, spartan female citizens are capable of constructing defense towers and palisades and have x2.5 damage versus siege weapons.Wall of Men civ bonus: Spartan Spear Infantry +10% hit point and attack but also +20% train time. The Spartans can't build stone walls.Peloponnesian League team bonus: +10% spear unit hit points (currently not shared)..Cleomenian Reforms: Spartan Pikemen are unlocked. +25% farming rate for all workers.Tyrtean Paeans tech: +10% spear infantry walk and run speed.The Agoge tech: +25% health for spear infantry, but also +10% train time.Syssition Limited to one, moved to the village phaseSpartan Hoplites trained at the Civ Center and Syssition, Spartan Royal Guard Champion Hoplites trained at the SyssitionSkirites given normal swordsmen attributes and ranks.Barracks trains all the non-hoplite units.