ROTE Xù yuē 17 - Impression and suggestion on historical accuracy

[wolflance]

I have to say I am very impressed by the latest release 17. Certainly it is MUCH closer to completion than version 16, as Chinese faction finally has most faction buildings completed/near completion. I am especially impressed with the unit roaster, as it pretty much covers everything Han Dynasty military has to over.

I open this thread to voice out my suggestion and opinions on various Chinese units. I am not a gameplay-and-balancing type of guy, but very much into aesthetics and historical accuracy. Also, my knowledge on architecture is limited, so I would not comment on the buildings, at least at the moment.

Part 1. Historical Inaccuracy

1) Clothing

Spoiler

The circled parts of the clothing probably didn't exists.

2) Armour

2.1) Light Armour for archers (elite) and sword cavalry (advanced) Fixed. No longer found in the mod.

Spoiler

I had never seen these...uh, pectoral breastplate, on any Han Dynasty terracotta before. I suggest swap the armour of spearman (basic) here.

I don't think that kind of helmet existed during Han Dynasty, and I am not sure about the champron either.

2.2) Medium Armour for Spearman (Advanced)

Spoiler

 

Never seen this before either, should be removed.

 

2.3) Heavy Armour

Spoiler

 

I liked both. I would prefer the outline of the left armour colored red (or made into team color). Both armours could be darker (as in pitch black, Chinese put black lacquer on their armour).

 

2.3.1) Proposed texture fix for heavy armour

Spoiler

 

I used a bit of photoshop

 

2.4) Helmets Fixed. No longer found in the mod.

Spoiler

 

Left helmet is anachronism, right helmet could be modified shorter and painted black. Put feather too if possible.

 

Reference 1: Armour for a Han Crossbowman (Advance and Elite)

Spoiler

This outfit is applicable for every other Han unit (Expect maybe bowmen and horse bowmen).

Reference 2a: Han Dynasty Crossbow Quiver

Spoiler

Exhumed crossbow quiver from Ma Wang Dui.

Han painted brick showing a crossbowman spanning his crossbow. Arrows can be seen fan out from his back.

Han Dynasty terracotta soldier with a crossbow quiver.

Crossbow quiver is box-shaped, usually worn on the back.

Reference 2b Han Dynasty bow and quiver

Spoiler

Han bow, bow bag, and quiver exhumed from the Niya site. Note that the bow is stringed wrongly.

Arrow quiver is usually worn on right hip.

2.4) Shield on swordsman (or lack thereof). Fixed. All sword unit has shield now.

Spoiler

 

Swordsman without shield is...weird. They should always come with a shield, instead of given shield when promoted. (Historically sword and shield are always mentioned side-by-side in period military treatises, one arsenal record even has exactly the same number of swords and shields, implying they were indeed used together)

(Can't imagine a Legionary goes to war without his scutum either)

Reference 3: Han period painting depicting sword-and-shield cavalry

Spoiler

 

2.5) Speaking of shield...Partially Fixed. Shield still found on barrack.

Spoiler

 

I don't recall seeing this type of pentagonal shield in use during Han Dynasty either (most are gourd-shaped). I hope someone could prove me wrong though, because I kinda like the design.

 

[wolflance]

3) Weapon

3.1) Anachronistic Halberd Fixed. Anachronistic halberd is longer used in this mod.

Spoiler

This halberd does not exist during Han period, so it need to be removed. Same goes for some of the halberds poking out of that AWESOME siege tower.

3.2) Halberd again Partially fixed. Still found on siege tower.
 

Spoiler

3.3) Halberd again Still found on siege tower.

Spoiler

The 'spearhead' part of the halberd need to be more visible. This should be a ji （戟）and not a ge （戈）. Also, there's only one 'dagger-axe' protrudes from one side of the shaft (read: not on BOTH sides). He is also holding the weapon wrongly, as the 'dagger-axe' part of this halberd should point to the other direction.

Reference 4: Han Dynasty Ji halberd

Spoiler

Reference 5: Correct way of handling a halberd

Spoiler

Check the right horseman.

3.3) Tassel on spear Fixed.

Spoiler

 

I don't believe tassel (that red brush thingy below the spearhead) existed back then. AFAIK earliest records are from Tang Dynasty.

 

(Chinese did use some sort of tassel during Eastern Han though.)

 

3.4) Spear

Current spearhead is rhomboid-shaped. Could use a better one, but this is (and should be) REALLY low priority because every unit in the game features the same spearhead.

Reference 6: Some Han Dynasty spearheads

Spoiler

3.5) Jian, Double-edged Sword Fixed. Jians are no longer used by swordsman and cavalry swordsman units.

Double-edged swords or Jian should be reserved for officer and Hero unit only. Bronze weapon was being phased out as well, especially bronze Jian.

In short, all long iron Jian should be removed. Shorter bronze Jian is still ok in extremely limited numbers (even that is stretching).

3.6) Dao, single-edged sword. Partially fixed, Daos still quite long.

You can easily tell by the grip that these swords are designed for two handed use. Could use a shorter version. Two handed swords (both Daos and Jians) could be used by specialist troop a.l.a. Britons.

All swords are too broad, the blade of a Han Dynasty sword is generally not broader than its grip.

(Think ninja sword without tsuba but with a ring pommel, and you basically get a Han Dao)

Both iron and bronze Daos were used (less bronze obviously).

Reference 7: Different Han Dynasty Weapons

Spoiler

(Top to bottom) Ji Halberd, Mao spear, Jian double-edged sword (hand guard and pommel missing), Huanshou Dao single-edged sword, and Yue Ji halberd (axe + spearhead)

[wolflance]

4) Heroes and Champion

4.1) Liu Bang

I really like Liu Bang's design. Liu Bang had a legend that associate him with sword (he killed a snake to mark the start of rebellion against Qin Dynasty. Maybe he REALLY hated snake ). The bronze sword complement him nicely, as Liu Bang predates Han Dynasty itself. Liu Bang often boasted he "won the Tianxia on horseback", so a horse is fitting.

For clothing, as a Emperor Liu Bang would had been wearing an imperial gown called jun xuan (袀玄), which is a black gown. Current clothing is only knee-length, too short to be considered a proper gown.

For some reason Liu Bang is trained from the farmstead, but I believe this is just temporary.

Proposed Hero Ability:

Economic aura: Liu Bang is not really a military guy but a good politician. His presence increase resource collecting speed (and/or yield).

Healing boost aura: Friendly Confucian scholar heals better.

Bribe: Active ability, paying certain amount of resource to force surrounding enemy unit to stop attacking for a while (and forcing retreat - if that sort of thing is possible to code). Enemy unit under the effect of bribing will be treated as neutral by your faction and your allies.

To prevent abuse, this ability can only be used in friendly territory.

Reference 8: Western Han Jun Xuan design

Plain black, no decoration. That 'crown' is part of the set too.

More ornate emperor gown probably appeared after Liu Bang's death.

Reference 9: Statue of a really angry Liu Bang chopping down a snake.

4.2) Han Xin

Current model is way too generic for a celebrated legend like Han Xin.

Han Xin had the reputation of always carry a sword around to the point of being humiliated (because he never actually use it), I suggest an eye candy sheathed sword for the 3D model . He worked as a guard / halberd bearer for Xiang Yu for a while before defecting to Liu Bang. There's also a mythical legend about him using a spear to stab the ground to find fresh water.

Personally I would imagine this hero as a heavily armoured cavalry lancer, as he is famous for his lightning fast strike, raid and ambush, deceptions, and generally high mobility warfare. As Han Xin also predates Han Dynasty, he could use earlier Qin Dynasty equipment as well.

Proposed Hero Ability:

Stealth aura: Passive aura that hides surrounding friendly unit from enemy mini-map.

Death wish aura: Surrounding friendly unit gradually increase their damage and attacking speed the more damage they take. (i.e. 100% increase in DPS at 50% health, 200% increase at 10% health, etc. Subject to balancing). Does not affect Han Xin himself and siege engine / ship / tower / garrisons.

*If building capturing is implemented into the game, he would get a 'capturing aura' as well.

Reference 10: Some character (wearing sensible armour) from the movie Red Cliff

A heroic cloak would be mighty fine .

4.3) Yet to be implemented Third Hero

Current design document indicates that third hero would be Wei Qing. Wei Qing is a cavalry hero, but most famous for his wagon fort tactic. He certainly did not use repeating crossbow though, that would be Li Ling.

Proposed Hero Ability (for Wei Qing):

Wu Gang Che: Active ability that train a bunch of slow moving, garrisonable cart.

In term of gameplay, I imagine Liu Bang as Defensive/Economic/Booming hero, Han Xin as Offensive/Ambush/Decisive Strike hero, while Wei Qing as Steady Push/Siege/Staying Power hero.

4.4) Champion Unit

Since there is none yet, may I suggest:

• Cavalry Lancer (Yu Lin Guard)
• Horse Archer (Bow) (Hu Ben Guard)
• Two-handed Swordsman Infantry
• Hybrid Melee-Crossbow Infantry - May be hard to implement, judging from the discussion about dual-role unit like Theurophoroi.

*There's a WIP elite Han archer model already, I hope modify it to become a cavalry unit won't be too complicated...

Edited February 28, 2015 by wolflance

[wolflance]

5) Naval Unit

I am not really knowledgeable in naval history either, but I really wish I could draw some concept of Han warship (if I could draw, that is).

5.1) Rudder

Could use a rudder here

Also, second 'floor' on this ship seems closer to first floor than third floor, for some reason.

Reference 11: Chinese Rudder

5.2) Chinese Sail

Chinese sail should be segmented on both side. (This is just very minor nitpicking)

EDIT: I might be wrong on this one. Need more reference to be sure.

EDIT 2: I was wrong. Current sail design is correct.

Reference 12: Korean ships and sail

Korean panokseon (ship on the right) is a derivative design of the Chinese Tower ship.

Reference 13: Modern junk ship and sail

5.3) Han Dynasty Warship Timeline (I think I already mentioned this somewhere else, but can't recall where):

Western Han: Tower ship (楼船) and Ge Chuan (戈船)

Eastern Han: Tower ship, Mao Tu (冒突) and Lu Nao (露挠)

Three Kingdoms: Tower ship, Dou Jian (斗舰) and Meng Chong (艨冲). Also Zou Ge (走舸) and fire ship.

• The Ge Chuan (戈船) is basically a medium warship/troop transport. The only defining feature of this ship is lots of spears and halberds (probably arranged uptight) on the deck.
• Mao Tu (冒突) and Lu Nao (露挠) can be interpreted as another name for Meng Chong/Covered Swooper (艨冲). Mao Tu (冒突) is described as an assault ship, while Lu Nao (露挠) is described as completely covered, with only oars visible from the outside.
• Zou Ge (走舸) is a smallish boat, probably around the size of a sampan.

Depending on time period, I think we *might* need to pick which warship (name) to use carefully.

Reference 14: Turnbull's interpretation of Three Kingdoms period warships

I think the tower ship and (un)covered swooper is influenced by Japanese interpretation, especially from some KOEI's game. Other ships at the bottom are based on excavated pottery models. That Fire ship is lifted directly from Song Dynasty drawings.

I don't really like his interpretation though. Such monstrosity. They are paddling the ship instead of oaring it!

5.4) Fishing boat

(suggestion only) I know there are some modern Chinese fisherman still fish like this, but I want at least a sampan

Wooden box could be replaced with a (round) bamboo basket.

Also, the fisherman should wear no boots/shoes.

5.5) Merchant boat

No sail and flag. Sailor (should be generally )standing on the back of the ship to man the rudder-oar . Again, shouldn't wear shoes.

Reference 15 Han brick artworks and pottery boats.

Some of the many Han period pottery boats can be useful reference.

Edited March 1, 2015 by wolflance

[niektb]

Well well, that's quite a list you're working on

Let's see if we can tackle the majority (or maybe everything) of this list (when it is finished) with the next release!

[Ayakashi]

Hope this might help!

http://ioacs.org/boat/storiedboat.html

[wolflance]

6) Siege engine

We have an entire thread dedicated to Han Dynasty siege warfare already, so I wouldn't need to say much.

That being said, those spears from the siege tower need to be fixed. Please refer to section 2). I actually prefer the more primitive Jing Lan over the Lv Gong Che, which was invented just before the fall of Yuan Dynasty.

I would like to suggest name change:

• Siege Crossbow: "shou she nu (手射弩)" to "nǔ chē (弩车)" OR "lián nǔ chē (连弩车)" OR “qiáng nǔ chē (强弩车)”.
• Siege Tower: "lin chong lv gong che (临冲吕公车)" to "lín chē (临车)" OR "lóng chē (隆车)"

Note: A lián nǔ in Han Dynasty context refers not to repeating crossbow but "siege crossbow that shoots rope-attached bolt". Think modern whaling harpoon cannon.

6.1) Other recorded siege weapons

(I simply list it here, it is up to the modders to decide which to use, or not using at all. Five different siege weapons is too redundant for one faction anyway.)

Battering ram "chong che (冲车)"

Armoured Carroballista "Wu Gang Qiang Nu Che (武刚强弩车)"

Three Kingdoms Period Stone-thrower "Pi Li Che (霹雳车)"

Three Kingdoms Period Siege Tower "Jing Lan (井阑)"

Edited February 28, 2015 by wolflance

[wolflance]

7) Aesthetic

This is probably the only part I will touch about building and architecture, because I am not very knowledgeable in it. I might come back after I expanded my knowledge on this area though.

7.1) Dragon banner

This kind of artwork is way too modern for Han Dynasty (I am guessing this is a Qing Dynasty artwork). Han Dynasty art tend to be very primitive, tribal-like, and utilitarian.

Reference 16: Han Dynasty Dragon Artwork

It has wing!

7.2) Paper Lantern

TBH, I am not even sure paper lantern existed back then. Even if it did, it wouldn't look like this.

7.3) Water Well

Could refer to the pottery models for a better design.

Reference 17: Han Dynasty Pottery Well

7.4) Door

AFAIK all doors on Han Dynasty buildings are rectangular. No arched door.

Speaking of which, that sign above this door read "大雄宝殿", which is the main hall of Shaolin Temple (which didn't existed yet). That font also haven't been invented.

7.5) Barrack

While current model is good, I would like to suggest an alternate layout:

Reference 18: Some kind of barrack

Note: The "議事廳" in this picture means 'conference hall'. This is a modern reproduction building after all. Probably has some air conditioner hidden somewhere.

7.6) Bixie

This design is again too advanced for Han Dynasty.

Reference 19: Han Dynasty bixie statue

Edited March 1, 2015 by wolflance

[wolflance]

Part. 2 Unit Variation

The problem with Han Dynasty army is that most (or all) of its equipment are mass produced and state-provided. This is generally a good thing as it greatly reduce logistics and cost, and the army will look fairly uniform.

Nevertheless, for the purpose of 0ad gameplay, it is a bad thing. Every archer and swordsman and spearman will be wearing the same cloth, armour and helmet, which is very dull and hard to tell different unit apart. A (partial) solution is to add unit variation, which I will elaborate base on different part of the body.

1) Head

1.1) Head for basic unit

1.1.1) Unarmoured Head for

Basic Infantry Swordsman

Basic Infantry Spearman

Bun hair, leather hat and bald guy. The bun hair and leather hat are already in the mod.

That bald guy is a cóng people (賨人 pronounced 'chong' instead of 'kon'), foreign (barbarian) troops employed by Han army as melee infantry (and cannon fodder).

Note: I would advice against using hairstyle other than bun hair. To the ancient Chinese people, cutting hair is SERIOUS BUSINESS, i.e. you shouldn't cut your hair, AT ALL. Unless some very specific time, place, and ritual is involved (I think). As a consequences, everyone is featuring that bun hairstyle. Some variant hairstyle can be found on the terracotta figurines, but let's keep it simple.

1.1.2) Unarmoured Head for

Basic Infantry Crossbowman

Same with melee infantry, but no bald guy.

1.1.3) Unarmoured head for

Basic Cavalry Swordsman

Basic Cavalry Spearman

Basic Cavalry Crossbowman

Same as above, but with feathered hat.

1.2) Head for advanced unit

1.2.1) Head for

Advanced Infantry Swordsman

Advanced Infantry Spearman

Advanced Infantry Crossbowman

Leather hat, helmet with exposed bun hair, and feathered helmet.

Note: Three helmets in the middle are just different perspective of the same helmet.

1.2.2) Head for

Advanced Cavalry Swordsman

Advanced Cavalry Spearman

Advanced Cavalry Crossbowman

Same as above, but add feathered hat.

1.3) Head for elite unit

1.3.1) Head for

Elite Infantry Swordsman

Elite Infantry Spearman

Elite Cavalry Swordsman

Elite Cavalry Spearman

Different types of helmet.

I think the full helmet (and large shield) actually start to appear during mid-Western Han and gradually replaced lighter equipment...but I am not entirely certain about that.

1.3.2) Head for

Elite Infantry Crossbowman

Elite Cavalry Crossbowman

Full helmet blocks peripheral vision, which is bad for ranged unit.

1.4) Head for bow unit.

Since heavy armour could potentially impede movement, archers tend to be lightly armoured. There are exceptions to this rule (such as heavy armoured samurai and cataphract), but I think Han Chinese generally favours mobility on their bowmen and horse archers.

1.4.1) Head for

Basic Infantry Bowman

Basic Horse Archer

1.4.2) Head for

Advanced Infantry Bowman

Elite Infantry Bowman

1.4.3) Head for

Advanced Horse Archer

Elite Horse Archer

Scrapped

This is found in a Xianbei tomb during the early Eastern Han period.

Update: Horse

*Basic horse has no decorations.

Also, don't forget the design of saddle cloth too.

Advanced Horse

Elite Horse

Reference 20: Han Dynasty Horse Terracotta

Edited March 17, 2015 by wolflance

[niektb]

A quick question: these feathered hats could also be used for the elite infantry archer?

[wolflance]

A quick question: these feathered hats could also be used for the elite infantry archer?

Supposedly those feathered hat are for more prestigious unit, which means they will likely be mounted.

Most of these things are excavated in badly decayed states from ancient tomb, so I can't guarantee the owner of said item WILL own a horse. I do found some pre-Han Dynasty artwork depicting cavalry with similar hat though.

Edited October 29, 2014 by wolflance

[wolflance]

2) Clothing

As a general rule, red color for melee unit and white color for ranged unit. There are some exceptions, but that is the general trend.

Beside red and white, there are also black, yellow-orange, teal-green and purple colored cloth.

*Please refer to Reference 1 and my other thread about reconstructed Han Dynasty clothing.

3) Thigh

Some cavalry (Not all) wear this thing on their thigh.

4) Armour

4.1) Pectoral armour for

Advanced Infantry Swordsman

Advanced Infantry Spearman

Advanced Infantry Crossbowman

Advanced Cavalry Swordsman

Advanced Cavalry Spearman

Advanced Cavalry Crossbowman

Osprey's artwork get the colouring wrong. The Chinese paint their armour with black lacquer, so all of their armour regardless of leather or iron, will appear black.

Pectoral armour variations:

4.2) Sleeveless Armoured Vest

4.3) Heavy armour for

Elite Infantry Swordsman

Elite Infantry Spearman

Elite Infantry Crossbowman

Elite Cavalry Swordsman

Elite Cavalry Spearman

Elite Cavalry Crossbowman

Armour with simple shoulder guard, armour with complete armoured sleeve, and armour with collar guard.

4.3) Pectoral armour for

Elite Infantry Bowman

Elite Horse Archer

Since archer favours mobility over protection, basic and advanced archer fought unarmoured. Only the most elite archer will be moderately armoured.

Edited February 28, 2015 by wolflance

[wolflance]

5) Shield

Only three variations that I could find:

Plain shield, M pattern and Black-on-red pattern.

Note: Heavy armoured infantry could have larger, almost scutum-sized shield (please refer to the armoured terracotta picture at lower left). Larger shield is unusable by cavalry for obvious reason.

Other variant decoration of the shield. Four dots at the middle of the shield is to fixate the shield handle.

Basic colour scheme is red (or team colour) on black or black on red. Plain shield is yellow-ish.

5.1) Shield Size

5.1.1) Smaller shield

For

Basic Infantry Swordsmen

Advanced Infantry Swordsmen

Basic Infantry Spearmen

Advanced Infantry

Basic Cavalry Swordsmen

Advanced Cavalry Swordsman

Elite Cavalry Swordsmen

5.1.2) Large shield (Same shape, only larger.)

For

Elite Infantry Swordsman

Elite Infantry Spearman

(Note that this is an unfinished home-made replica Qin Dynasty shield modified from a polycarbonate riot shield, the shape and size is similar to Han Dynasty shield, but the decoration is very different.)

Reference 20: Shield Size Comparison

A Qin Dynasty shield exhumed from the mausoleum has the size of 71cm x 53cm. It is likely smaller than the Han Terracotta shield, but we don't have other reference.

Another one, from earlier Warring States period, is 92.5cm x 58.5cm, roughly the same size as scutum.

Compare to:

Theuros shield (~100cm x 50cm)

Greek Aspis (~90cm diameter)

Imperial Roman Scutum (93-106cm x 60-83cm)

Battersea shield (77cm x 35cm)

Edited March 4, 2015 by wolflance

[wolflance]

6) Unit call sign, decoration and bling

Spoiler

 

Decoration can present on all unit, whether basic or elite, armoured or unarmoured, ranged or melee. The actual purpose of these decorations is unknown, some speculate that the badge is Chinese equivalent of dog-tag, while others think those feathers are used to distinguish officers or messengers.

Either way, the modders are welcomed to use this however they see fit (or not using this at all). I would love to see some of these bling on the champion unit.

Since Hu Ben Guard (虎贲, Running Tiger) has tiger pants, why not put feathers on Yu.Lin Guard (羽林, feathered forest)? *wink* *wink*

This string is to bind the badge on the back (refer leftmost guy at bottom picture).

Do note that only the badge and shoulder-feather can be found on Han terracotta figures. The back-feather are speculation based on textual record. The box on the back of the second right guy is supposedly a quiver instead of feather-holder.

The badge is for lower-rank, the shoulder-feather is mid-rank and the back-feather is for high rank.

 

EDIT: Ahh, finally all done.

[Ayakashi]

6) Aesthetic

This is probably the only part I will touch about building and architecture, because I am not very knowledgeable in it. I might come back after I expanded my knowledge on this area though.

6.1) Dragon banner

This kind of artwork is way too modern for Han Dynasty (I am guessing this is a Qing Dynasty artwork). Han Dynasty art tend to be very primitive, tribal-like, and utilitarian.

Reference 15: Han Dynasty Dragon Artwork

It has wing!

6.2) Paper Lantern

TBH, I am not even sure paper lantern existed back then. Even if it did, it wouldn't look like this.

6.3) Water Well

Could refer to the pottery models for a better design.

Reference 16: Han Dynasty Pottery Well

6.4) Door

AFAIK all doors on Han Dynasty buildings are rectangular. No arched door.

Speaking of which, that sign above this door read "大雄宝殿", which is the main hall of Shaolin Temple (which didn't existed yet). That font also haven't been invented.

6.5) Barrack

While current model is good, I would like to suggest an alternate layout:

Reference 17: Some kind of barrack

Note: The "議事廳" in this picture means 'conference hall'. This is a modern reproduction building after all. Probably has some air conditioner hidden somewhere.

6.6) Bixie

This design is again too advanced for Han Dynasty.

Reference 18: Han Dynasty bixie statue

6.4)

But what about this?

I also recall that the Gates at the Dunhuang Great Wall ruins are arched as well. Although that could be due to erosion. Arches are also extensively used in Han tombs and the sewage systems of Chang'an. So IMO it's not unreasonable to assume that arched doors are occasionally used in some fortified structures as well.

That sign is not exclusive to the Shaolin Temple but is found at the main hall of all Buddhist temples. Of course that means it's still very out of place. What you normally get instead is a unique name for the particular building which could be anything really. And yeah agree the font is wrong it should either be seal script or clerical script.

6.5)

The reason I made the layout like that in the initial concept art was because its the standard layout for barracks of all factions in the game. So from a gameplay perspective its so that all players can more easily identify it as such.

6.6)

The difference isn't that huge IMO. This was reference I used when I drew the concept:

Yeah... not that close lol! But still close enough IMO.

All other points I more or less agree with.

Edited October 29, 2014 by Ayakashi

[niektb]

I think it is important to make sure that stuff from a later period doesn't get deleted but moved instead to the corresponding mod (such as millennium ad). I'll respond to various stuff (as you seem to be finished) asap.

Edited October 29, 2014 by niektb

[Stan`]

I agree with Niektb on that point. Nothing will be definitely removed. We'll either move it to other mods, or put it in an eyecandy mod (There is one) or store them as embelishement with the mention not accurate.

About the siege weapons I believe the aim of the mod of which we are the successors not the deciders was the Han Dynasty and the Eight years period before it, not the three kingdoms.

Edited October 29, 2014 by stanislas69

[wolflance]

6.4)

But what about this?

I also recall that the Gates at the Dunhuang Great Wall ruins are arched as well. Although that could be due to erosion. Arches are also extensively used in Han tombs and the sewage systems of Chang'an. So IMO it's not unreasonable to assume that arched doors are occasionally used in some fortified structures as well.

That sign is not exclusive to the Shaolin Temple but is found at the main hall of all Buddhist temples. Of course that means it's still very out of place. What you normally get instead is a unique name for the particular building which could be anything really. And yeah agree the font is wrong it should either be seal script or clerical script.

Apparently I was wrong on that one...which shows my knowledge on architecture is really limited

When I say removed, I mean removed from gameplay. They can definitely be reused for later period mod or eyecandy .

By the way, is there anything that can be done to the crossbowmen/mounted crossbow animation? I believe current one use same animation as bowmen.

Edited October 30, 2014 by wolflance

[Stan`]

They do. Actually I was waiting for Enrique to release his new unit meshes before doing anything bad. Now that he has done so, either he will do it, or maybe I. But looking at his posts, I believe I am not wanted/skilled enough to make anims.

[wolflance]

They do. Actually I was waiting for Enrique to release his new unit meshes before doing anything bad. Now that he has done so, either he will do it, or maybe I. But looking at his posts, I believe I am not wanted/skilled enough to make anims.

Glad to hear that. There's a new announcement about upgrading unit with new models (and animations) for the main game, I though maybe we could wait for the new upgrade to come out before working on the mod's unit.

[Stan`]

Fixed the Ji mesh. It is not correctly used yet. But for those that use it it's okay ^^

Edited October 30, 2014 by stanislas69

[Stan`]

For fonts, and text, I'd be happy if you could provide, Fonts (Public Domain) and a Way I could replace that dragon by the one you showed me.

[wolflance]

Part.3 Unique Technology and Research

For the most part, Han Dynasty is a balanced faction. They have good infantry, good cavalry, good economy, okay siege, okay navy, and weak buildings (ideally, as Chinese wooden or rammed earth buildings cannot possibly compete with Greco-Roman stone structure, some of which still stands today). This does make the faction feels somewhat bland (jack of all trade, good at everything but master of none), and I hope some unique tech could remedy that.

Warfare

• Crossbow: THE bread and butter weapon of Chinese army. Allows for tough, hard-hitting, slow-firing, and easily spammable (train really fast) ranged infantry unit.
• Repeating crossbow: This thing is overrated. Maybe make it a research to give women (civilian) something to defend themselves with.
• Two-handed sword: Another (often overlooked) unique weapon for the Chinese. I dare to say at that point of time, the Chinese and Indians were the only civilizations in the world tho utilize two-handed sword (discounting falx and rhomphaia).
• Solid tree saddle (Eastern Han): First to use this, provides a more stable rides so...health upgrade for mounted unit?
• Horse of Ferghana / Blood sweating Horse: Imported (Received as tribute) horse breed from Dayuan (Ferghana Valley). These horses are what the Greek and Persian called Nisean horses, and might be related / ancestors to what we called Argamaks or Akhal-Teke today.

(The number of these horses under possession of Han Dynasty was limited though, unlike Persians, which were able to export their horse)

• Reorganizing Military Treatises：Historical event(s), happened three times throughout Han Dynasty. First time by Han Xin and co., second time by Yang Pu, and third time by Reng Hong. Numerous but extremely messy pre-Han Dynasty military treatise (such as Sun Tzu's Art of War, and hundreds of other books) are tidied up, re-evaluated, and reorganized into a more presentable format. Decrease recruitmen time?

Economic

• Borehole and Shaft Mining: While not as good as the Romans (I think), Chinese were good miner.
• Blast Furnace: Already in the mod.
• (Book of ) Discourses on Salt and Iron: Could be a paired tech (State controlled vs Private Enterprise). State control boost military and trade but strain resource gathering, Private enterprising boost resource gathering yield but decrease trade and military.
• Alternating Field Farming: Farming Upgrade
• Multi-tube Seed Drill: THE tech that is "thousand years more advanced than rest of the world". Farming Upgrade
• Heavy Mouldboard Iron Plough: Farming Upgrade
• Book of Fan Sheng Zhi: Western Han Agriculture Treatise, Farming Upgrade (again ).

Tech with uncertain gameplay value

• Papermaking
• Compass (?)
• Silk Trade: Duh
• Ceramics and Porcelain
• Seismometer (Eastern Han)

Once again, this list is not meant as a 'put everything I listed into the mod!' suggestion. The modders are always free to choose and discard as they see fit.

I will update this list if I could find more information.

Edited February 27, 2015 by wolflance

[wolflance]

For fonts, and text, I'd be happy if you could provide, Fonts (Public Domain) and a Way I could replace that dragon by the one you showed me.

For (computer) font, there's SimLi, which is distributed with the Chinese version of the Windows (I am not really familiar with licencing, so I am not sure what licence it use).

Another one is 漢鼎繁隸變 or HDZB_7.TTF, allegedly released by University of Heidelberg's Institute of Chinese Studies as open source, but I cannot find the original source of that claim (I can't read German either).

Link here: http://www.certifiedchinesetranslation.com/fonts/Chinese.html

(Most Chinese font sites do not care about copyright and licencing at all, so I am so flooded with 'free but probably illegal' stuff and it is really confusing...)

EDIT: Hopefully larger picture of that Han Dynasty dragon. It is actually from a funeral banner...

Edited October 30, 2014 by wolflance

[Stan`]

What about the Ji spear ?