Lack of ship variety and functions

[System Error Message]

Hi i think 0.a.d lacks some historical accuracy with ships. When archers are garrisoned they would fire from the ships. I think this can be implemented similar to how siege towers work in the game since garrisoned units do not follow your orders on who to fire on and can fire from any angle. It is pretty cool seeing a siege tower of 20 archers fire in a 360 degree radius in the enemy city

There seem to be no variances between ships from different races.

[dvangennip]

Hi i think 0.a.d lacks some historical accuracy with ships. When archers are garrisoned they would fire from the ships. I think this can be implemented similar to how siege towers work in the game since garrisoned units do not follow your orders on who to fire on and can fire from any angle. It is pretty cool seeing a siege tower of 20 archers fire in a 360 degree radius in the enemy city

There are some tickets filed on ships, matching your suggestions (garrisoned units fire arrows) (direction of attack) (death animations). Well, there are a few more, but at least consider your requests as noted. However, garrisoned infantry already counts towards extra arrows fired (Trireme default is 3, +1 for every additional unit garrisoned). These all go in the same direction, plus the ship needs to point towards the target. A defense tower does not suffer from this behaviour, but cannot be tasked to attack a specific unit or structure. If a ship looses that ability, it may be more versatile (literally all round) in defence, but less so in attacking (only the default fire power can be "channelled").

There seem to be no variances between ships from different races.

Persian, Carthaginian, Greek and Roman bireme, trireme and quinquereme ships have much in common, yes. But this appears to be a result of a technical solution considered the best fit by multiple civilisations (see also info on Triremes and Galley design). Most were derived from successful designs by the Phoenicians or even built by those people (as the late period Egyptians had, due to a lack of quality wood). A design teacher of mine once stated that if your goals are the same, you probably end up with more or less the same solution (as to why understanding of the problem and goals is key to come to different solutions).

The Celtic and Iberian ships are clearly different though? What would be your suggestion for improvement?

Edited August 3, 2012 by dvangennip

[System Error Message]

There are some tickets filed on ships, matching your suggestions (garrisoned units fire arrows) (direction of attack) (death animations). Well, there are a few more, but at least consider your requests as noted. However, garrisoned infantry already counts towards extra arrows fired (Trireme default is 3, +1 for every additional unit garrisoned). These all go in the same direction, plus the ship needs to point towards the target. A defense tower does not suffer from this behaviour, but cannot be tasked to attack a specific unit or structure. If a ship looses that ability, it may be more versatile (literally all round) in defence, but less so in attacking (only the default fire power can be "channelled").

Persian, Carthaginian, Greek and Roman bireme, trireme and quinquereme ships have much in common, yes. But this appears to be a result of a technical solution considered the best fit by multiple civilisations (see also info on Triremes and Galley design). Most were derived from successful designs by the Phoenicians or even built by those people (as the late period Egyptians had, due to a lack of quality wood). A design teacher of mine once stated that if your goals are the same, you probably end up with more or less the same solution (as to why understanding of the problem and goals is key to come to different solutions).

The Celtic and Iberian ships are clearly different though? What would be your suggestion for improvement?

Interesting fact different civilisations having the same ships. But i dont think they're only limited to those few ship types. Perhaps limitting the warships transport capacity and having a dedicated transport ship if the civilisations did have any and limitting warships to only being able to carry foot soldiers and not cavalry or siege equipment would seem real.

wouldnt it be better if ships attacked the same way as the seige tower? Is having to face the attacker necessary for the unit in order to attack as made for the game engine? I still cant figure out how the ships work entirely. I noticed rome has a siege ship so using this approach would be better for it since the arrows would constitute as a secondary attack, not the main siege attack. Although the siege ship would fire less arrows from garrisoned archers since it cannot fit as many in order not to make the warships outdated.

I think the siege ship needs more range too.

[Loki1950]

Ship design did not really change till the late middle ages as there was no need to change,sailors are a very conservative group

Enjoy the Choice

[dvangennip]

Ship design did not really change till the late middle ages as there was no need to change,sailors are a very conservative group

Worse, probably. Knowledge of ship design degraded during and after the time period of this game, at least where it concerned fast and light oar ships such as the trireme (very expensive to build and maintain). There were other types besides the bi/tri/quinquiremes, but navies all used these types in large numbers (Athens was said to have 300 triremes at their peak). Military transport ships were just merchant ships (those can also be used in 0 A. D. to move units). Later ship models such as the quinquereme indeed had ballistic capabilities, other ships such as the trireme models had no place nor the capacity for serious on-board weaponry. Practically it was hard, because the ship had to be pulled ashore each night (no food storage + soaked up water because of light wood used). Imagine having to do that...

As for the attack capabilities, there is some work to do, but some day it will be fine For now, ships are like all other units and must face the direction of their attack.

[majapahit]

Howabout boat designs in the nile river?

[dvangennip]

Howabout boat designs in the nile river?

Well, I have been looking at that recently. Except for a few religious boats (and this reconstruction) there are mostly wall paintings to go from. At any rate, Egyptians had many ships because the Nile was their lifeblood. But river ships/barges could be different from seaworthy designs; the Nile is relatively calm compared to the Mediterranean Sea. There is a problem though, a few actually: further south the Nile is blocked by cataracts, which means a ship has to stop. Goods were either moved to another ship on the other side of a cataract, or the ship was dragged over land, or taken apart and reconstructed.

Whether their late design ships could truly stand up against the triremes (and similar designs), I doubt it. Otherwise more states would have copied Egyptian designs. Also, no complete ships have been found. Not even biremes and triremes have been found, only pieces. The wood was probably repurposed instead of leaving it for us to see.