hhyloc Posted January 13, 2012 Report Share Posted January 13, 2012 (edited) Ahem, regarding the new Outpost structure that has just been implemented in recent revision, I have some concerns as well as suggestions. - I know that the Outpost loses health over time is intentional, but why? Is there any particular reason for this? Why the Outpost cannot be built in own territory? It doesn't have much uses there but still.- In my opinion the Outpost is less useful compare to the Scout Tower in many waysOutpost compare to Scout TowerPros:- Build 3x faster- Can build in neutral territory- Cost only 100 Wood while the Scout Tower costs 100 Stone in addition to 100 WoodCons:- Inferior armor- Has only 500 Health compare to 1200 of Scout Tower- Units cannot garrison inside (The garrison element was removed recently)- Loses health overtimeThe Outpost is sure useful to scout neutral territory for enemy's advance (cheap, fast to build) but why build a tower that loses health over time, has no means of self-defense and can be taken down with relatively ease (being inferior in both armor and health). If I want to scout, a cavalry unit is better IMHO, at least he can run around even into hostile territory and fight back when attacked. And finally, I have some suggestions for this structure: Make the building stop losing health or very slow after a period of time, it is already weak and it don't need to be weaker to the point of losing health and self-destruct. Allow only 1 unit to garrison inside, Scout Towers don't need garrison units to attack while the Outpost will need one unit inside to actually attack, that unit is usually it's builder too. What I'm proposing here is to make the Outpost an average, jack of all trades building, it can provide a reliable vision and at the same time hold off a small enemy skirmish for a time. Finally I think female citizens should be able to build it too, so players will have easy access to the Outpost. Edited January 13, 2012 by hhyloc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mythos_Ruler Posted January 13, 2012 Report Share Posted January 13, 2012 I think there's no use in comparing it to a Scout Tower, since both are used in very different situations for different reasons.It loses health because all player-constructed buildings which are disconnected from a Civic Centre lose health. The Outpost loses health at a much reduced rate. The reason it's only buildable in Neutral territory is so that it is further differentiated from the Scout Tower (what I've renamed to "Defense Tower" in its tooltip). You build outposts to gain vision of unclaimed territory; You build defense towers in your own territory for defense. Adding an attack to the Outpost blurs this distinction.Though, it might be permissible for the females to be able to build Outposts, since they are not strictly a military building. (Though when we have capturing enabled, it would be risky to have a female walk too far from the base.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seru Posted January 13, 2012 Report Share Posted January 13, 2012 a Interesting idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hhyloc Posted January 13, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 13, 2012 I think there's no use in comparing it to a Scout Tower, since both are used in very different situations for different reasons.It loses health because all player-constructed buildings which are disconnected from a Civic Centre lose health. The Outpost loses health at a much reduced rate. The reason it's only buildable in Neutral territory is so that it is further differentiated from the Scout Tower (what I've renamed to "Defense Tower" in its tooltip). You build outposts to gain vision of unclaimed territory; You build defense towers in your own territory for defense. Adding an attack to the Outpost blurs this distinction.You are right, comparing the Outpost to Defense Tower is unwise. But an Outpost in own territory sounds perfectly fine for me, I'm imaging that the Outpost can be useful to reveal fog of war in one's territory when there is a shortage of resource, being cheaper and faster to build. Of course the Outpost is a temporary solution only and Defense Tower is better at defending.As for the Outpost can attack or not, I think it'd be more realistic to have only 1 unit garrison inside to provide a very weak attack because any outposts must actually have men inside to provide vision right? Even though the Outpost can attack in my suggestion, it will still be no match for Defense Tower so I think it won't blur the difference between the two types of tower too much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mythos_Ruler Posted January 13, 2012 Report Share Posted January 13, 2012 You have convinced me to bring this matter before the Jedi Council. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theShadow Posted January 13, 2012 Report Share Posted January 13, 2012 about the whole "buildings losing health" thing, I think some distinction should be made between "health" and "loyalty", which iirc is whats really being lost here. (thats the concept behind the idea)is this something that is planned for the future, and the health loss is placeholder until then?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
historic_bruno Posted January 13, 2012 Report Share Posted January 13, 2012 about the whole "buildings losing health" thing, I think some distinction should be made between "health" and "loyalty", which iirc is whats really being lost here. (thats the concept behind the idea)is this something that is planned for the future, and the health loss is placeholder until then?Correct. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hhyloc Posted January 14, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 14, 2012 You have convinced me to bring this matter before the Jedi Council.Nice to hear that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hhyloc Posted January 31, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2012 Sorry for the double post: I want to bring up one of my earlier Outpost suggestions: Allow the Outpost to be build in own territory. I'm aware that it's not supposed to be that way, but I think the it will fit in some future scenarios/campaigns when the player's base is a temporary one and the Outpost will act as a weak version of the Defense Tower (Think of the Roman settlement with palisade wall and wooden outposts). Maybe we can even change the name so it'll sound more reasonable: Outpost --> Palisade Tower. Comments, ideas, disagree? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cassador_Chris Posted January 31, 2012 Report Share Posted January 31, 2012 I'd just make a new building that uses the same model for scenarios and campaigns. I like the outpost as it stands, personally. For scenarios and stuff, when one wants to beautify the map or have the outposts periodically destroyed by an advancing enemy, etc, then just make a new building for that purpose, and reuse the standard model. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hhyloc Posted February 3, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 3, 2012 I guess it could work that way, but my suggestion is for mainline, which means it'll apply to any scenario and with only one type of Outpost, not custom made ones using the same model. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mythos_Ruler Posted February 3, 2012 Report Share Posted February 3, 2012 I guess it could work that way, but my suggestion is for mainline, which means it'll apply to any scenario and with only one type of Outpost, not custom made ones using the same model.I've tweaked the outpost, ladies and gentlemen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hhyloc Posted February 5, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 5, 2012 Again, you've earn my worship Mythos_Ruler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mythos_Ruler Posted February 5, 2012 Report Share Posted February 5, 2012 Again, you've earn my worship Mythos_Ruler I think palisades though, if we implement them, will be restricted to player's territory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hhyloc Posted February 5, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 5, 2012 I think palisades though, if we implement them, will be restricted to player's territory. Fine by me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
feneur Posted February 5, 2012 Report Share Posted February 5, 2012 I think palisades though, if we implement them, will be restricted to player's territory. Yeah, the Romans siege walls have got to be unique to make them special (kind of a moot point, or at least saying the same thing twice, but I hope you get my meaning =) ). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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