Catapult Animations next release?

[General Octavian]

Will there be animations for the siege units next release? Would be very nice

[quantumstate]

The rams are animated for Alpha 8. Unfortunately the other siege weapons are not. I don't know whether there are plans to animate them soon.

[Pureon]

Will there be animations for the siege units next release? Would be very nice

Maybe I'll work on animating them for Alpha 9.

More importantly, I'd really like to see them unpack and pack (like the trebuchet in AOE2). All the models needed are in place, so all we need is one of the developers to work out how to do it!

[feneur]

Animations are really an area where a lot of work is needed, and due to both a lack of animation skills and previous (and to a lesser degree current) issues with the Blender Collada export/import it's been a bit sporadic. With the latest couple of versions of Blender the Collada support has been improved, so more animations have been added, and will be added. Hopefully mechanical things like the catapults should be done relatively soon. Organic things like animals which takes a bit more practice before one is able to animate properly might take a while longer before we have them all done.

[Mythos_Ruler]

We'll be adding animal animations and stuff like that all the way up to Gold release.

[Pureon]

So all agreed that the rock and spear thrower siege units need to 'pack' before becoming mobile?

[feneur]

So all agreed that the rock and spear thrower siege units need to 'pack' before becoming mobile?

As long as it's easy enough to use them, perhaps even automatic? And if they are powerful enough to warrant that extra either micromanagement or at least time/graphical change. But if nothing else it can be a good idea to balance things for that matter, to have the ranged siege require some setting up to even out some of the disadvantages the civs have which doesn't have any ranged siege.

[historic_bruno]

So all agreed that the rock and spear thrower siege units need to 'pack' before becoming mobile?

Definitely. We have a range of options for how to implement that: require infantry units to manually pack/unpack it (nice for the eyecandy I think, but perhaps annoying in practice); automatic based on orders given (an attack order means it should unpack or if it's too far away from the target, it should pack, move, and unpack again, whereas a move order would pack and move); or have pack/unpack UI buttons which require manual control.

[quantumstate]

Definitely. We have a range of options for how to implement that: require infantry units to manually pack/unpack it (nice for the eyecandy I think, but perhaps annoying in practice); automatic based on orders given (an attack order means it should unpack or if it's too far away from the target, it should pack, move, and unpack again, whereas a move order would pack and move); or have pack/unpack UI buttons which require manual control.

I think making them basically automatic but also having manual buttons available. Requiring infantry units would be very annoying, for eyecandy it would be better to have a couple of operators as part of the model, I don't know how easy that would be for art people though. One idea would be to have three possible modes; unpacked, auto and packed which would be modified through the UI. In unpacked/packed mode the unit would remain in that state until it was turned off again through the UI. In auto they would follow your instructions automatically so attacking a unit out of range means it would pack, walk and unpack without manual intervention. This would be the default mode and I think would give a good blend of manual control and automated helpfulness.

[feneur]

I think making them basically automatic but also having manual buttons available. Requiring infantry units would be very annoying, for eyecandy it would be better to have a couple of operators as part of the model, I don't know how easy that would be for art people though. One idea would be to have three possible modes; unpacked, auto and packed which would be modified through the UI. In unpacked/packed mode the unit would remain in that state until it was turned off again through the UI. In auto they would follow your instructions automatically so attacking a unit out of range means it would pack, walk and unpack without manual intervention. This would be the default mode and I think would give a good blend of manual control and automated helpfulness.

Sounds like the best option to me. Sometimes you may want to set up the siege weapons in a certain spot to protect a certain area etc, or to avoid them attacking some certain units/buildings, but sometimes you just want to take down the enemy buildings and could care less for more exact control. Is there really a need for a certain auto mode though? Wouldn't it be possible to just have any direct attack order trigger the pack-->move-->unpack actions? Move orders just move it if it's packed, and pack and move (but not unpack) if you give a move order while it is unpacked. The only thing would be if you would want them to move and unpack, but don't want to direct it to attack a specific building/unit. Perhaps there could be an Alt-key modification where it would automativally unpack at the destination if you gave a move order with the key pressed? (Perhaps Alt+Shift or something if we want ranged siege to listen to attack-move commands )

[Mythos_Ruler]

We can do it just like the Trebuchets in Age of Kings. Pretty much exactly like that, actually.

[quantumstate]

We can do it just like the Trebuchets in Age of Kings. Pretty much exactly like that, actually.

Can you explain why you think it is better doing it like this instead of how I outlined above. I always found trebuchets fairly annoying to use in AoK and sometimes wondered if that was a design decision to make them less powerful.

[Mythos_Ruler]

Can you explain why you think it is better doing it like this instead of how I outlined above. I always found trebuchets fairly annoying to use in AoK and sometimes wondered if that was a design decision to make them less powerful.

I thought the Trebs in AOK acted just like how you outlined?

Now that I think about it, it was always manual. So, yeah, I like what you outline better. Basically what you outlined is how CANNONS are treated in Age of Empires 3. If you task them to move they will pack up and be moved by horses automatically. You can also override this process with UI buttons.

A couple of other things I liked about Age of Empires' siege weapons:

-- Trebuchets and fully-upgraded catapults can mow down trees by targeting them specifically.

-- You can "attack ground" for a constant barrage.

-- Splash damage to mow down formations of enemy troops.

[quantumstate]

I thought the Trebs in AOK acted just like how you outlined?

Now that I think about it, it was always manual. So, yeah, I like what you outline better. Basically what you outlined is how CANNONS are treated in Age of Empires 3. If you task them to move they will pack up and be moved by horses automatically. You can also override this process with UI buttons.

Since you reminded me of AoE3, I remember that for moving cannons a short distance they would not be packed up, they would just get pushed along. Empire Total War did not have this feature and it felt pretty annoying to see the units hitch up horses to move 10 meters. What do do you think about having a slow movement speed for unpacked siege?

[Mythos_Ruler]

Since you reminded me of AoE3, I remember that for moving cannons a short distance they would not be packed up, they would just get pushed along. Empire Total War did not have this feature and it felt pretty annoying to see the units hitch up horses to move 10 meters. What do do you think about having a slow movement speed for unpacked siege?

Hmm... The reason the cannons in AOE3 could move slowly over short distances was because they had gigantic wheels on them. Catapults in 0 A.D. (and 0 A.D.'s time period) do not. I think it would be interesting to allow things like siege towers and battering rams to move at-will, but to require packing for catapults. I could see things like scorpions and oxybeles (bolt shooters) being moved by soldiers carrying them though. Packing allows them to be very powerful, but also very vulnerable to cavalry charges.

[Android_]

In any case you should have draft horses as a graphical feature in one way or another. They really add to it in terms of realism and atmosphere.

[Pureon]

Just wanted to say I like quantumstate's 3 state proposal

[Android_]

issues with the Blender Collada export/import

On a side note; would any of the devs be so kind as to write a detailed step-by-step guide on how to import/export models from the game to Blender in order to animate them? I can do animations if I find the time, especially if your models are already rigged, and other animators might join in too if we get clear instructions.

[Pureon]

On a side note; would any of the devs be so kind as to write a detailed step-by-step guide on how to import/export models from the game to Blender in order to animate them?

Take a look here for some useful blender info: http://trac.wildfiregames.com/wiki/ArtDesignDocument#Blender

Unfortunately Blender doesn't yet import our rigged collada files properly, you'll find nodes are rotated or some are scaled incorrectly. Mythos and I are planning to write a detailed guide that includes a step-by-step blender export section.

[Android_]

I know that document but it's too basic... looking forward to your exporting guide.

Unfortunately Blender doesn't yet import our rigged collada files properly, you'll find nodes are rotated or some are scaled incorrectly.

So importing into Blender is not possible yet? Any ways around this? As I said some step-by-step instructions would be appreciated by any future animators I guess