Civ: Palmyrenes

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

 

The Palmyrenes

 

 

[Nicolaus_von_Kues]

There are quite a few representations of Eagles in the religious art of Palmyra.

The Eagle of Baalshamin in Palmyra

In ancient pre-Islamic Syria, Baalshamin was the god of the sky and the "Lord of the Heavens" in the city of Palmyra. His two main attributes were lightning and the eagle.

 

At the entrance of his famous temple in Palmyra (which was tragically destroyed by ISIS in 2015), a celebrated stone lintel relief prominently featured an eagle with outstretched wings, symbolizing divine power, sovereignty, and cosmic protection.

 

https://virtual-museum-syria.org/palmyra/door-lintel-from-the-temple-of-baalshamin/

 

That's why it was used throughout Rome II.

 

There is also another symbol of Zenobia riding a Lion.

I'll look for it later.

Edited July 3 by Nicolaus_von_Kues

[Nicolaus_von_Kues]

Using AI.

 

Palmyran eagle.

We must not forget that they are a Roman-Semites civilization and after all.

 

I would add some other additional symbol.

Edited July 4 by Nicolaus_von_Kues

[Nicolaus_von_Kues]

Additionally, I did another experiment with the AI, but it went wrong, and since it was free (free ai version of grok service), I can't fix it.

The result isn't ugly in itself, it just looks very modern.

And the other problem was proportion.

The head looks modern The feathers look modern; the eagle's finish seems more from this era than from the Roman one.

 

 

[Nicolaus_von_Kues]

Edited yesterday at 04:45 by Nicolaus_von_Kues

[Nicolaus_von_Kues]

1 hour ago, Nicolaus_von_Kues said:

https://warfare.6te.net/Ancient/Shield-Dura-Europos-Yale.htm

38. Shield or mantlet of reeds, late 3rd century AD, Sassanian (?), Dura-Europos, Yale University Art Gallery, New Haven (Mes, Brow A).

Vol. 1, p235: Shields made of reed or cane had been used in the Middle East since pre-historic times. A magnificently preserved rectangular Sassanian example was excavated at Dura Europos (Fig. 38). Comparable shields may well have been used in Persia and Iraq until the time of the Muslim conquest,26 but whether the reed shields of pre-Islamic Arabia27

Syria: The ark is captured by the Philistines at the Battle of Even ha-Ezer. Fresco from Dura Europos.

Edited yesterday at 04:53 by Nicolaus_von_Kues

[Nicolaus_von_Kues]

Third century romans

 

 

 

Edited yesterday at 06:22 by Nicolaus_von_Kues

[Nicolaus_von_Kues]

 

Edited 23 hours ago by Nicolaus_von_Kues

[Nicolaus_von_Kues]

14 hours ago, Nicolaus_von_Kues said:

Third century romans

 

 

 

The style of these soldiers seems to have a very distant Asian influence, but it could be due to the influence of the Silk Road, according to some forums and Reddit posts.

Chinese and Vietnamese style armor are mentioned.

[Nicolaus_von_Kues]

14 hours ago, Nicolaus_von_Kues said:

Third century romans

 

 

 

The style of these soldiers seems to have a very distant Asian influence, but it could be due to the influence of the Silk Road, according to some forums and Reddit posts.

Chinese and Vietnamese style armor are mentioned.

 

The problem with this hypothesis is the Parthia/Persia blockade.

Edited 10 hours ago by Nicolaus_von_Kues
Updating research...

[Nicolaus_von_Kues]

https://archeologie.culture.gouv.fr/palmyre/en/clothes-and-jewellery

Clothing.

 

The reliefs offer an insight into what people might have worn in Palmyra. Although there are examples of citizens wearing the Roman toga or himation, a draped garment worn by the ancient Greeks, most Palmyreans wore typically Syrian clothes, colourful and richly embroidered, influenced by the attire of their powerful neighbour to the east, the Parthian empire.

 

 

Below are images dedicated to Zenobia, both modern and reliefs. 

 

 

 

Edited 8 hours ago by Nicolaus_von_Kues

[Nicolaus_von_Kues]

According to:

https://history.stackexchange.com/questions/46106/what-was-clothing-in-ancient-palmyra-like

 

An important trading centre which derived much of its wealth from the Silk Road, Palmyra was a multi-cultural city, influenced by both east (especially Iran) and west (Greece and Rome). This is reflected in the clothing they wore, but there was also a distinctly local style; in short, it’s a complex picture and generalizing is difficult. As Marybeth Osowski, in Fashioning Identity: Clothing and the Image of the Syrian in the Roman Empire, states:

 

The standard visual image of the Near East in Greek and Roman depictions features elements such as long-sleeved tunics and ankle-length trousers, bright colors and elaborate patterns or decorations, and other items like pointed hats or turbans also feature but are not universal.

 

The best visual evidence we have of clothing in 3rd century AD Palmyra comes from funerary monuments. However, these cannot be considered entirely representative of the population as a whole but rather of the local elite and wealthier residents, most likely wearing their finest clothing. Further, we can’t be sure to what extent these may have been idealized representations of what people actually wore. Lastly, there is the issue of status, and of how people wished to be seen in different social and cultural situations.

 

Generally speaking, there two styles of Palmyrene attire: one is termed Greek or Greco-Roman, the Parthian or sometimes Persian.

Let's go:

Sassanid clothes.

 

Edited 8 hours ago by Nicolaus_von_Kues

[Nicolaus_von_Kues]

https://archeologie.culture.gouv.fr/palmyre/en/clothes-and-jewellery

 

 

Men wore embroidered baggy trousers and belted long-sleeved tunics. Women generally wore a tunic, a mantle fastened on the left shoulder with a fibula, earrings, one or more necklaces, bracelets, a brow band often decorated with plant motifs, a turban and a long veil. A preference for an Iranian garment or a Greek mantle was a matter of taste, wealth or mood, not of origin or profession.

The central role played by Palmyra in trade between the Mediterranean and the East made it one of the main stopping points for caravans transporting luxury materials such as gold, gemstones and pearls. It was also a focal point for the styles, fashions and techniques that travelled with the merchants. The Palmyreans assimilated these different influences: Palmyrene silverwork and goldwork, for example, are a rich synthesis of eastern, Roman, Greek, Hellenistic and Syrian elements and motifs.

 

Edited 8 hours ago by Nicolaus_von_Kues

[Nicolaus_von_Kues]

4 minutes ago, Nicolaus_von_Kues said:

https://archeologie.culture.gouv.fr/palmyre/en/clothes-and-jewellery

 

 

Men wore embroidered baggy trousers and belted long-sleeved tunics. Women generally wore a tunic, a mantle fastened on the left shoulder with a fibula, earrings, one or more necklaces, bracelets, a brow band often decorated with plant motifs, a turban and a long veil. A preference for an Iranian garment or a Greek mantle was a matter of taste, wealth or mood, not of origin or profession.

The central role played by Palmyra in trade between the Mediterranean and the East made it one of the main stopping points for caravans transporting luxury materials such as gold, gemstones and pearls. It was also a focal point for the styles, fashions and techniques that travelled with the merchants. The Palmyreans assimilated these different influences: Palmyrene silverwork and goldwork, for example, are a rich synthesis of eastern, Roman, Greek, Hellenistic and Syrian elements and motifs.

 

These clothes, it seems to me, resemble those from Central Asia and Hellenized areas of India. 

Hellenistic India.

Kushan art.

The trousers bear a certain resemblance. Probably an influence from Iranian peoples.

[Nicolaus_von_Kues]

I found an interesting image of an art based on a fresco and relief with AI.

Below I will leave other references that are unclear but seem convincing. 

[Nicolaus_von_Kues]

I found 2 images made with AI but well done.

Below I'll leave some pictures of Hollywood. 

One is an Arab woman and the other a Bactrian princess.

This is a character from the series The Chosen who has good advice regarding clothing. As always, Hollywood has its problems with armor; sometimes, for safety reasons, they don't use realistic armor.

It seems that Middle Eastern and Central Asian cultures liked those hanging ornaments.

[Nicolaus_von_Kues]

I had a problem with the forum; some of what I wrote disappeared.

Fortunately, I saved the images and I still have the text in my mobile device's memory.

 

Egyptian 

 

It is a long white shirt with sleeves and with two buttons shorter in length and sleeves, it was worn on occasions before the reign of Khedive Ismail, and it was worn with a wide belt and a pendant with an energetic headdress.

 

I originally thought that these cultures have many similarities due to their geographical and cultural proximity.

Hebrews, Phoenicians, Syrians, Egyptians.

They share many clothes or outfits.

[Nicolaus_von_Kues]

Some fashions are Ottoman according to museums in Egypt and Jordan.

These are some details that come from Central Asia or the Arabian Peninsula, even India.

 

I'm going to upload what I found in museums (via Pinterest).

There are many images, the one I circled in red is from an Egyptian museum but from the Ottoman period.

Although the style of the clothing is very similar to that of the characters from Aladdin.

Many of these styles seem to be from Central Asia and the steppes.

Even so, it is not impossible due to cultural contact.

Edited 6 hours ago by Nicolaus_von_Kues

[Nicolaus_von_Kues]

Men's clothing is difficult because there are pants.

All I can find is clothing similar to Odenathus

It seems to be Looser than Roman clothing and simpler than Persian clothing.

The photo shows 3 gentlemen wearing baggy pants.

 

[Nicolaus_von_Kues]

 

3 hours ago, Nicolaus_von_Kues said:

I found an interesting image of an art based on a fresco and relief with AI.

Below I will leave other references that are unclear but seem convincing. 

What I can see is that the way these people dress is an adaptation of Roman and Persian clothing for the desert climate.

They continue to wear more modern, loose-fitting clothes. 

The sirwal is a garment said to have originated in Central Asia. It is a loose-fitting pair of trousers.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persian_clothing

It appears to be a combination of different fashions and cultural centers. The Parthians seem to play an important role, not just the Persians.

The inventors of the trousers: The Iranian-speaking peoples - such as the Scythians, Medes and Achaemenid Persians — are historically recognized for introducing trousers to the ancient world.

Practical Necessity: While the Greeks, Romans or Egyptians wore robes and togas, these peoples needed a forked garment to ride a horse comfortably and protect themselves from the weather.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sirwal

The word is of Persian origin; shalwār (شلوار) was borrowed into Greek as σαράβαρα sarábāra, "loose trousers worn by Scythians". The words used in Balkan languages came through the Ottoman Turks and did not continue the Ancient Greek designation.

From the 7th to the 3rd century BC, the Scythian people of the Pontic Steppes produced and adopted a wide arrangement of clothing. The clothing of the Scythians was formulated in response to the nomadic, highly mobile lifestyle of the early Scythian era and the sedentary lifestyle of later Scythian kingdoms. Much of what is known about Scythian attire comes from the remains of clothing found in Scythian burial sites.

Edited 3 hours ago by Nicolaus_von_Kues

[Nicolaus_von_Kues]

Parthian fashion, especially Hatra's, influenced Palmyra's style...The_Parthian_haute_couture_at_Palmyra.pdf

 

---

The document analyzes how the dress of Parthian origin (Iranian) became a symbol of prestige among the elites of Palmyra during the I-III centuries AD, despite the fact that the city belonged politically to the Roman Empire. The author argues that this fashion arrived thanks to the intense commercial contacts between Palmyra and Parthian Mesopotamia, and that its use reflected wealth, prestige and cultural identity more than a political affiliation

suit are also known from late Parthian-period reliefs and statues in Iran and Mesopotamia. In Elymais in southwestern Iran a long-sleeved long sash is often worn in addition over the left shoulder. 10 The art of the semi-independent kingdom of Hatra has also produced many examples of the trouser-suit (fig. 5). Here, male worshippers and some of the gods wear elaborately decorated belted tunics which are combined with baggy trousers. Floral and geometric designs running down the centre of the tunic and the At Palmyra there are many funerary and religious reliefs – and some statues – showing male figures dressed in the Parthian fashion. In addition, actual finds of textile fragments from Palmyrene tombs suggest that in the first to third centuries AD a large part of the population adopted the Parthian fashion, while others were dressed in the Roman style of the time. 12 The trouser-suit at Palmyra consisted of a round-necked long-sleeved belted tunic – short, knee-length and long trousers and/or leggings. Often a cloak fastened on the shoulder was worn, or a himation was draped.

 

An early example of the Parthian costume occurs on the architectural reliefs of the Temple of Bel. 14 The ‘Foundation T’ relief shows a headless rider figure looking right and wearing a round-necked (?) longsleeved belted tunic, a shoulder cloak and wide trousers/leggings (fig. 6). A decorative vertical band with dots (pearls?) runs down the side of the trouser leg. A similar (divine?) rider figure, but turning left, wears an almost identical outfit with a decorative cable pattern band on the side of the trouser leg. 15 Relief decoration on the stone beams of the Bel Temple shows that trousers were also used to dress divine beings. For example, the god Aglibol wears a long-sleeved tunic with a cuirass, a cloak and wide leggings with the ornamental band at the side of the trouser legs rather than in the centre (fig. 7a). Wide leggings with diagonal folds fall over his shoes. The leggings were probably attached to suspenders covered by the tunic and were pulled up at the outside of the thighs. 16 On the so-called ‘Offering scene’ of the Bel Temple male figures wear a draped himation over long tunics. The legs of two figures on the left are covered with leggings/trousers (fig. 7b). Trousers are also worn on a late first century altar relief from the sanctuary of Baalshamin. Here, the god Malakbel appears with a bushy curly Parthian hairstyle, 17 and next to Malakbel and his chariot stands a dedicant wearing a long sleeved tunic, a draped himation and wide trousers.

 

 

The funerary art of Palmyra also provides us with many examples of male figures dressed in tunics and trousers. 24 A relief from the tower tomb of Kitôt in the Valley of the Tombs of AD 40 shows the principal reclining figure in the presence of his wife and two sons. Kitôt wears a long-sleeved round-necked tunic, a draped himation and wide trousers with a decorative band; traces of greenish/blue colour were discovered on his trousers. 25 A draped himation over the tunic is male figures, probably priests, at Hatra and Dura Europos during the second and third centuries AD. 27 Banquet reliefs at Palmyra often depict young men in attendance dressed in almost identical outfits to their master. Their costume consists of a belted roundnecked, long-sleeved tunic with a decorative band on the neckline, cuffs and hemline, a cloak, tight trousers 26. Curtis 1993, pl. XXIb.

---These also catch my eye.---

Perhaps the pants should look looser.

I made these but they should wear pants or trousers.

At least I know that the garment worn over the main robe has a name and has already been mentioned several times.

Himation (rectangular woolen mantle that was draped over the chiton, much like the simlah or me'il).

Philosophers, teachers and elders were frequently represented with this combination.

 

 

Edited 58 minutes ago by Nicolaus_von_Kues

[Nicolaus_von_Kues]

 Banquet reliefs at Palmyra often depict young men in attendance dressed in almost identical outfits to their master. Their costume consists of a belted roundnecked, long-sleeved tunic with a decorative band on the neckline, cuffs and hemline, a cloak, tight trousers.

Edited 39 minutes ago by Nicolaus_von_Kues

[Nicolaus_von_Kues]

36 minutes ago, Nicolaus_von_Kues said:

 Banquet reliefs at Palmyra often depict young men in attendance dressed in almost identical outfits to their master. Their costume consists of a belted roundnecked, long-sleeved tunic with a decorative band on the neckline, cuffs and hemline, a cloak, tight trousers.

It's definitely a cross between Roman clothing and Parthian.