post-0 AD idea: mythology

[Aldandil]

I don't see the need to replace the Apep-spawn as much as to replace Shezmu and Wepwawet. Apep-spawn isn't perfect, but if something else isn't available I think it works better than Wepwawet or Shezmu.

OK, not knowing which major god gets each of the minor gods, here's my suggestions:

Bastet:

Ma'et (Ma'at is a misspelling): Ammut, because if you fail Ma'et's test at the weighing of the heart, Ammut is the one who eats your soul.

Sobek: El Naddahah is good. She kind of reminds me of the River-Man, actually, but it shouldn't be too hard to make them distinct from each other -- she doesn't strike me as something that actually gets in a fight.

Hathor:

Khepri: Giant Scarab is perfect

Khnum: River-Man/Mud-Man/Reme pa-Yar

Anubis: Mummy

Isis:

Ptah:

Horus: Khaty

Sekhmet: Uraeus

Thoth:

Set-animal could go to any minor god who is associated with Set in your set-up. Serpent of the Duat would work for Thoth, Ptah, Anubis, or Isis. Uraeus works best with Sekhmet but could go with Bastet or Hathor instead. Sphinx fits with Sekhmet, Bastet, or Hathor fine, I'm hazy on concrete suggestions for it.

Apep-spawn is the hard one, but any minor god not connected with Re should be OK.

Khaty best fit Anubis or Horus but could be given to any god. Or like Mummy, you could give it to two different minor gods, each associated with a different major god.

Personally, I don't see the River-Men as being made of mud, but I don't know whether or not that's the concept behind them, so I don't see anything wrong with using that idea.

If you want to you can include a myth unit or demigod with a net, and give it to Horus or any minor god connected with Osiris or Re. I don't know how that would work as a unit, though. They could be similar in appearance to Khatyu, but with a different head, and they could be armed primarily with nets. I'm kind of going off of some of the minor deities in the Book of the Dead. Budge called them Tjatjau (singular Tjatja), though there's no telling with Budge whether his transliteration is close to accurate or wildly off.

Another idea I have is for a Sacred Bull. I don't know if this would be too similar to the Mesopotamian Bull of Heaven (could the Bull of Heaven fly?) The sacred bulls were worshiped as gods but also incarnated in actual bulls which lived and died and were mummified, so it doesn't seem too far of a stretch to use them as myth units, as long as they are more impressive than the ordinary bulls that are already in 0 A.D. as animals. There's Hap (Apis), Bakh (Buchis), Men-wer (Mnevis), Kem-wer, Gem, and the Sky-Bull (Bull of the West). They are associated with Ptah, Re, and Osiris, but at a stretch Bull of the West can be associated with Hathor. There was supposed to be only one at a time of each (and I don't know that the Bull of the West ever had an actual earthly representative) but since there were 5 or 6 different bulls, that provides some justification for having multiples of them (more than there is for multiples of Ammut, at least) as myth units. The question is whether they can be made distinct enough from the Bull of Heaven.

Other than that, there are the crocodile-rams that show up in artwork, which may or may not represent gods, that are just as usable as sphinxes: a crocodile-ram has the head of a crocodile and the body and horns of a Khnum-ram. Khnum and Sobek are the most obvious gods to associate with these, but if they already have El Naddahah and River-Man then you could give it to another god.

Edited August 3, 2010 by Aldandil

[oshron]

I don't see the need to replace the Apep-spawn as much as to replace Shezmu and Wepwawet. Apep-spawn isn't perfect, but if something else isn't available I think it works better than Wepwawet or Shezmu.

well since i now have the "serpent of duat" idea, i think that would fit better than apep-spawn. if i still need to fill in something elsewhere, then ill bring back the apep-spawn

Bastet:

Ma'et (Ma'at is a misspelling): Ammut, because if you fail Ma'et's test at the weighing of the heart, Ammut is the one who eats your soul.

Sobek: El Naddahah is good. She kind of reminds me of the River-Man, actually, but it shouldn't be too hard to make them distinct from each other -- she doesn't strike me as something that actually gets in a fight.

Hathor:

Khepri: Giant Scarab is perfect

Khnum: River-Man/Mud-Man/Reme pa-Yar

Anubis: Mummy

Isis:

Ptah:

Horus: Khaty

Sekhmet: Uraeus

Thoth:

even though ammit is part of the judgment cycle and ma'at is associated with that, which would you rather pair her with? ma'at, goddess of truth, or sobek, god of crocodiles? at the moment, i have it so that the river man (i decided his name will be Reme pa-Yar) goes to ma'at because he doesnt fit as well with bastet (who i also still need a myth unit for. maybe i should just give HER wepwawet?).

here's the wikipedia page on el naddahah: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/El_Naddaha (and yeah, i realize now ive been misspelling the name for a while)

yes, yes, i know anubis is the god of mummification, but id just much rather give him a jackal-headed warrior. im also doing this in such a way that MUs similar to gods appearance and abilty-wise are present, so the khaty goes best with anubis, and i WONT be changing that. thats one thing im absolute about. most of the rest is still fluid, though, and subject to change

Set-animal could go to any minor god who is associated with Set in your set-up. Serpent of the Duat would work for Thoth, Ptah, Anubis, or Isis. Uraeus works best with Sekhmet but could go with Bastet or Hathor instead. Sphinx fits with Sekhmet, Bastet, or Hathor fine, I'm hazy on concrete suggestions for it.

Apep-spawn is the hard one, but any minor god not connected with Re should be OK.

Khaty best fit Anubis or Horus but could be given to any god. Or like Mummy, you could give it to two different minor gods, each associated with a different major god.

now that i think about it, maybe it would be best if, instead of making the set animal a myth unit, i made it a regular animal that can be encountered by the player alongside real animals like jackals and lions. id prefer to not have any myth units directly overlap, even if some types of them are ultimately similar between different civilizations

Personally, I don't see the River-Men as being made of mud, but I don't know whether or not that's the concept behind them, so I don't see anything wrong with using that idea.

same here. it could just be chalked up as an invented myth unit, then. another thing that im trying to do is keep in mind how some scenarios could be made, so im actually including a fair amount of myth units with the ideas for certain ancient ruins that have been overrun by monsters being explored by the player, and i recalled a mud monster from an old game and thought that, purely by coincidence, that the river-man/reme pa-yar would be a good choice, and it also helps to fill out some more of the egyptians

If you want to you can include a myth unit or demigod with a net, and give it to Horus or any minor god connected with Osiris or Re. I don't know how that would work as a unit, though. They could be similar in appearance to Khatyu, but with a different head, and they could be armed primarily with nets. I'm kind of going off of some of the minor deities in the Book of the Dead. Budge called them Tjatjau (singular Tjatja), though there's no telling with Budge whether his transliteration is close to accurate or wildly off.

care to go into detail on these Tjatjau?

Another idea I have is for a Sacred Bull. I don't know if this would be too similar to the Mesopotamian Bull of Heaven (could the Bull of Heaven fly?) The sacred bulls were worshiped as gods but also incarnated in actual bulls which lived and died and were mummified, so it doesn't seem too far of a stretch to use them as myth units, as long as they are more impressive than the ordinary bulls that are already in 0 A.D. as animals. There's Hap (Apis), Bakh (Buchis), Men-wer (Mnevis), Kem-wer, Gem, and the Sky-Bull (Bull of the West). They are associated with Ptah, Re, and Osiris, but at a stretch Bull of the West can be associated with Hathor. There was supposed to be only one at a time of each (and I don't know that the Bull of the West ever had an actual earthly representative) but since there were 5 or 6 different bulls, that provides some justification for having multiples of them (more than there is for multiples of Ammut, at least) as myth units. The question is whether they can be made distinct enough from the Bull of Heaven.

ill consider a bull myth unit for the egyptians, or maybe it could be present as some kind of mythical technology that benefits livestock. as for gugalanna, no, i dont think he could fly. in fact, he lived in the underworld.

Other than that, there are the crocodile-rams that show up in artwork, which may or may not represent gods, that are just as usable as sphinxes: a crocodile-ram has the head of a crocodile and the body and horns of a Khnum-ram. Khnum and Sobek are the most obvious gods to associate with these, but if they already have El Naddahah and River-Man then you could give it to another god.

now THAT is interesting. maybe they could serve as a naval unit and i could transfer el naddahah to another god or remove her altogether

[Aldandil]

well since i now have the "serpent of duat" idea, i think that would fit better than apep-spawn. if i still need to fill in something elsewhere, then ill bring back the apep-spawn

Well, you still need something for Bastet, right?

even though ammit is part of the judgment cycle and ma'at is associated with that, which would you rather pair her with? ma'at, goddess of truth, or sobek, god of crocodiles? at the moment, i have it so that the river man (i decided his name will be Reme pa-Yar) goes to ma'at because he doesnt fit as well with bastet (who i also still need a myth unit for. maybe i should just give HER wepwawet?).

I suggested Reme pa-Yar for Sobek because he's one of the river-gods. In the same way, since El Nadaha is a river-spirit (she looks like some kind of ghost?) she could go with Sobek, and Reme pa-Yar could go with Khnum.

I know Ammut is crocodile-headed, but Sobek isn't strongly associated with the underworld or the judgement. And there's the crocodile-ram if you want to give him a crocodile-headed unit. (Wepwawet is associated with Ma'et, but I'd rather see him replaced with something else).

now that i think about it, maybe it would be best if, instead of making the set animal a myth unit, i made it a regular animal that can be encountered by the player alongside real animals like jackals and lions. id prefer to not have any myth units directly overlap, even if some types of them are ultimately similar between different civilizations

Does the Set animal overlap too much with dog-like myth units?

Tjatjau: I think these guys could serve well as a myth unit for Horus. The information I have is from Budge's translation of the Amduat and the Book of Gates which you can read here:

http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/egipto/e...ts.htm#contents

Budge's translations of the text and transliterations of the names aren't always accurate, but there you can see a lot of Khatyu (all the gate guardians with their knives might be Khatyu), Uraei, and Serpents of the Duat. I'm re-reading it all right now to find the section with the Tjatjau so I can give you the url and details.

now THAT is interesting. maybe they could serve as a naval unit and i could transfer el naddahah to another god or remove her altogether

Since you still need more myth units for the Egyptians, I don't think it makes sense to get rid of any that you have now, except Shezmu and Wepwawet. Apep-spawn seem like the most naval of your myth units, though Reme pa-Yar could be naval and El Naddaha could stand on the water and get units to jump off of ships (and when they run out of units their player can't control them anymore, and they just drift until boarded!). The crocodile-ram doesn't seem naval to me, since it has hooves, but you could make Ammut amphibious.

EDIT: from reading from Budge, here are some small groups of deities in the Duat:

http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/egipto/e...l/bat/bat09.htm

Heteptyu (satisfied ones, or they of the offerings), four bearded, male, human-headed mummified gods. Re says to them: "O ye gods who dwell in the Tuat, ye Heteptiu who keep ward over your masters, ... protect ye Osiris from those who would act with violence and wrong against him. The work of these gods in the Tuat is to give offerings to the gods of the Tuat, who are masters of their offerings and of the food which proceedeth forth from the mouth of this great god."

http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/egipto/e...l/bat/bat12.htm

Tjatjau (sovereign divine chiefs), twelve bearded, male, human-headed mummified gods. "Those who are in this picture in the Tuat are seated firmly on their instruments for weaving, and they are in the form of the figures which Horus made. Ra saith to them:--O ye who are swathed in your holy swathings, who are arrayed in your garments, whom Horus covered up when he hid his father in the Tuat, which concealeth the gods, uncover ye your heads, O ye gods, unveil ye your faces, and perform ye the things which must be done for Osiris! Ascribe ye praise to the lord of AMENTET, and make ye your word maat against his enemies every day. These beings are the tchatcha (i.e., divine sovereign chiefs) of this god, and they avenge by their words Osiris each day; and the work which they do in the Tuat is to overthrow the enemies of Osiris."

http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/egipto/e...l/bat/bat13.htm

Twelve gods or human souls, 4 with disks instead of heads and 8 with human heads, armed with javelins and bows and arrows. They aren't referred to by any collective name. "To those who are in this picture with their arrows, and to those with javelins, and to those with their bows, who are in the presence of this great god, and who make their appearance with him in the Eastern Horizon of the sky, this great god saith:--Speed ye your arrows, make ready your javelins, bend your bows, and destroy ye for me my enemies who are in darkness; be ye at the portal of your horizon, and follow ye in my train when I unite myself to those who make adoration to my flesh in the MANTIT BOAT. It is, they who drive back the SEBI serpent of NEHA-HRA in the thick darkness, and when this great. god passeth on into the Eastern Hall of the horizon, they also travel on in the train of this god."

The gods I saw with nets must have been in a different book, maybe the Book of the Sky. The nets are for capturing Apep or fishes that symbolize chaos.

Another option is to give female, lioness-headed goddesses as myth units to one of the gods. I don't know what to call them... Eye of Re? Khatyt? Sekhmet Warrior? Pakhet Warrior? I don't know of a collective name for such goddesses. Some can breathe fire as you see near the bottom of this page: http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/egipto/e...l/bat/bat14.htm

Edited August 7, 2010 by Aldandil

[oshron]

after much convincing and a little contemplation, ive rearranged the egyptian pantheon as this:

MAJOR GODS

Osiris

Traits: (missing)

Bonus: Living Gods - makes Viziers as strong as Pharaohs

Technology: (missing)

God Power: (missing)

Super Unit: (missing)

Ra

Traits: (missing)

Bonus: (missing)

Technology: (missing)

God Power: (missing)

Super Unit: Medjay - Nubian mercenary primarily acting as an archer but uses a sword at close range

Set

Traits: (missing)

Bonus: Slavery - a percentage of killed enemy mortals become Slaves

Technology: (missing)

God Power: Drought - slows down enemy food production

Super Unit: (missing)

MINOR GODS

Bastet, goddess of cats

Phase: Town

Focus: (missing)

Technology: Sacred Cats - increases food production (cats kill vermin)

Myth Units: (missing)

God Power: (missing)

Availability: Ra, Set

Changes from Last Version: none

Ma'at, goddess of law and truth

Phase: Town

Focus: (missing)

Technology: Petsuchos (makes Ammit stronger), Crocodilopolis (effects undecided)

Myth Units: Ammit (regenerates health by fighting, loses health by hunger)

God Power: (missing)

Availability: Osiris, Ra

Changes from Last Version: Reme pa-Yar transferred to Sobek, Sobek technologies given to Ma'at

Sobek, god of crocodiles

Phase: Town

Focus: navy

Technology: (missing)

Myth Units: Reme pa-Yar (terrestrial, splits into spawn when killed, heals wounds in water), El Naddahah (naval, effects undecided, but will probably be a nastier version of the Celtic Lake Maiden)

God Power: (missing)

Availability: Osiris, Set

Changes from Last Version: technologies and Ammit transferred to Ma'at, given Reme pa-Yar

Hathor, goddess of love and motherhood

Phase: City

Focus: (missing)

Technology: (missing)

Myth Units: Sphinx (effects undecided)

God Power: (missing)

Availability: Osiris, Ra

Changes from Last Version: none

Khepri, god of beetles

Phase: City

Focus: (missing)

Technology: (missing)

Myth Units: Giant Scarab (living siege, bleeds upon death to hurt nearby enemies)

God Power: (missing)

Availability: Ra, Set

Changes from Last Version: none

Khnum, god of the Nile

Phase: City

Focus: navy, buildings

Technology: Osirica (effects undecided, but benefits buildings)

Myth Units: Uraeus (effects undecided, but will probably be a rehash of

AOM's Wadjet

)

God Power: (missing)

Availability: Osiris, Set

Changes from Last Version: none

Anubis, god of mummification

Phase: Empire

Focus: Pharaohs, archers

Technology: Bow of Fatality (makes archers stronger), Canopic Jars (makes Pharaohs revive faster)

Myth Units: Khaty

God Power: Boils - afflicts enemies in an area with boils, hurting them and preventing them from working or fighting

Availability: Osiris, Ra, Set

Changes from Last Version: Inpu Warrior changed to Khaty, made available to all Major Gods

Isis, goddess of nature and magic

Phase: Empire

Focus: (missing)

Technology: (missing)

Myth Units: Serpent of Duat (effects undecided; it fits since Osiris is the god of the underworld and Isis is his wife)

God Power: (missing)

Availability: Osiris, Ra

Changes from Last Version: given myth unit

Ptah, god of creation

Phase: Empire

Focus: (missing)

Technology: (missing)

Myth Units: Crocodile-ram (terrestrial, effects undecided), Apep-spawn (naval, effects undecided)

God Power: (missing)

Availability: Set

Changes from Last Version: given myth units, made available only to Set for purposes of Apep-spawn

Horus, god of kings

Phase: Legend

Focus: (missing)

Technology: (missing)

Myth Units: Tjatjau (effects undecided, but will probably be a rehash of

AOM's Avenger

)

God Power: Son of Osiris - transforms a Pharaoh into a Son of Osiris hero, borrowed from AOM

Availability: Osiris, Ra

Changes from Last Version: Shezmu replaced by Tjatjau

Sekhmet, goddess of war and the desert

Phase: Legend

Focus: (missing)

Technology: (missing)

Myth Units: (missing)

God Power: Hail - calls on a storm of fire and ice to slow down all movement and hurt all enemies, especially their buildings (note: this used to be Sandstorm, but was replaced for situations, because not all maps will have sand)

Availability: Ra, Set

Changes from Last Version: Apep-spawn transferred to Ptah

Thoth, god of scribes

Phase: Legend

Focus: (missing)

Technology: (missing)

Myth Units: Mummy (can curse enemies to kill them and turn them into Minions)

God Power: (missing)

Availability: Osiris, Set

Changes from Last Version: none

btw, this reminds me: for the most part, no civilizations will be getting unique technologies (there are a few exceptions, like being able to research certain armory technologies that will be functionally the same as "regular" ones but included elsewhere just for aesthetics, like cro-magnon obsidian = greek iron). instead, the unique technologies of the game are the ones that are granted by each god (for instance, Anubis' "Bow of Fatality" and "Canopic Jars" are unique technologies)

an idea occurred to me just now. perhaps instead of being compelled to have to operate the game with foreign languages the whole time, there could be an option to turn them off and get names in english, or whatever language that particular game is in (russian, spanish, etc) so that, while some units keep their native names for aesthetics, some others, like the norse giants, would be renamed "mountain giant" or "frost giant" and so on

[Aldandil]

Hmm... I really like the Major gods and the way you distributed the Minor gods among them.

MAJOR GODS

Osiris

Bonus: Living Gods

- makes Viziers as strong as Pharaohs

http://education.meetup.com/71/

Technology:

Can he increase farm output? He's the agriculture god after all.

God Power:

(missing)

Ra

Bonus:

(missing)

Technology:

(missing)

God Power:

Baking an area with heat that gives enemy units extra fatigue? I don't know if fatigue is in the game at all.

Set

Bonus: Slavery

- a percentage of killed enemy mortals become Slaves

Technology:

Can he increase the speed at which units can traverse desert terrain? If it's normally hard or slow to pass over, could he change the pathfinding equations for Egyptian units to make desert as easy as grass to cross? Alternatively, this could be a bonus and Slavery could be the tech, since it isn't so supernatural.

God Power: Drought

- slows down enemy food production (great idea!)

MINOR GODS

Bastet, goddess of cats

She's also a fertility goddess, if that helps with ideas.

Technology: Sacred Cats

- increases food production (cats kill vermin) This is a great idea.

Myth Units:

(missing)

God Power:

(missing)

Availability:

Ra, Set

Ma'at, goddess of law and truth

Technology: Petsuchos

(makes Ammit stronger),

Crocodilopolis

(effects undecided) I didn't know that upgrading a myth unit has to be a technology separate from having the unit itself. Hmm.

Myth Units: Ammit

(regenerates health by fighting, loses health by hunger)

God Power:

(missing)

Availability:

Osiris, Ra

Sobek, god of crocodiles

Technology:

Maybe making boats faster or harder to destroy?

Myth Units: Reme pa-Yar

(terrestrial, splits into spawn when killed, heals wounds in water),

El Naddahah

(naval, effects undecided, but will probably be a nastier version of the Celtic Lake Maiden)

God Power:

Maybe summoning 3 or 4 crocodiles to just ambush somebody from the water and then go back underwater? Is that too boring?

Availability:

Osiris, Set

Hathor, goddess of love and motherhood

Technology:

Perhaps speeds up the breeding and food output of corralled livestock? I know, that's kind of weak.

Myth Units: Sphinx

(effects undecided)

God Power:

(missing)

Availability:

Osiris, Ra

Khepri, god of beetles

Mainly he's a god of the sun and resurrection.

Technology:

(missing)

Myth Units: Giant Scarab

(living siege, bleeds upon death to hurt nearby enemies)

God Power:

Maybe he resurrects one dead Egyptian unit, or else Osiris could do that. Or if you can't think up anything better, they both could, since you can't have both in the same game.

Availability:

Ra, Set

Khnum, god of the Nile

Technology: Osirica

(effects undecided, but benefits buildings) Because Ptah is the god of buildings and architects, and Khnum is the god of pottery and the maker of human souls on his potter's wheel, what about Khnum making human reproduction (and thus new support and citizen-solider units) cheaper, while Ptah improves the strength of buildings and/or the weapons and armor?

Myth Units: Uraeus

(effects undecided, but will probably be a rehash of

AOM's Wadjet

) Since Uraei were associated with fire instead of water, here's my idea: The Uraeus starts out as a venom-spitting cobra. It can be upgraded to breathe fire, and again to give it arms and a big bronze knife. Give it to Bastet or Sekhmet, and give Khnum the Apep-spawn since it is a naval/water unit and he's a naval/water god. Does that make sense?

God Power:

If you think it's too powerful for the River-man to have, you can give Khnum a flood that hurts enemy units.

Availability:

Osiris, Set

Anubis, god of mummification

Technology: Bow of Fatality

(makes archers stronger),

Canopic Jars

(makes Pharaohs revive faster) Nice idea, interesting. Is that literally reviving after dying?

Myth Units: Khaty

God Power: Boils

- afflicts enemies in an area with boils, hurting them and preventing them from working or fighting

Availability:

Osiris, Ra, Set

Isis, goddess of nature and magic

Technology:

She could increase the abilities of healers, since healing is one of her areas. She's also more about royalty than nature, I think.

Myth Units: Serpent of Duat

(effects undecided; it fits since Osiris is the god of the underworld and Isis is his wife) Makes sense. But, wait! Were you planning to give magician units to any civilization? Because they'd be perfect for Isis, if you did. But the Serpent of the Duat is too cool not to use. My idea was that it starts out with four legs, one head, and a venomous bite. Its upgrades are: Multiple heads, increases bite attack; More heads replacing the tail, giving it two separate attacks and the ability to attack in two different directions, against two different units; A third pair of legs, increasing land speed; And wings, letting it fly over water and some obstacles.

God Power:

She could heal units or temporarily increase the ability of healers in an area.

Availability:

Osiris, Ra

Ptah, god of creation

Technology:

He's the god of craftsmen, including smiths and architects, so anything that improves buildings, armor, or weapons would be excellent.

Myth Units: Crocodile-ram

(terrestrial, effects undecided),

Apep-spawn

(naval, effects undecided)

God Power:

(missing)

Availability:

Set

Horus, god of kings

Technology:

(missing)

Myth Units: Tjatjau

(effects undecided, but will probably be a rehash of <a href="

http://java

script: newwindow('avenger.htm',520,450)" target="_blank">AOM's Avenger</a>) Tjatjau is plural, Tjatja would be the singular.

God Power: Son of Osiris

- transforms a Pharaoh into a Son of Osiris hero, borrowed from AOM (this is a great idea)

Availability:

Osiris, Ra

Sekhmet, goddess of war and the desert

Technology:

She could improve weapon quality, or something related to weapons.

Myth Units:

I recommend Uraeus, or else you could choose to give her a fire-breathing, spear-wielding, lioness-headed female Khatyt, if that's not too repetitive. The name I finally thought of is Mastyt, meaning "executioner."

God Power: Hail

- calls on a storm of fire and ice to slow down all movement and hurt all enemies, especially their buildings (note: this used to be Sandstorm, but was replaced for situations, because not all maps will have sand) I really like this, but just make it fire and hot wind, not ice. She was considered responsible for scorching winds, and for plague too for that matter. You could even give her a plague power (even give her Boils, but I don't have an idea for Anubis' power then) and give scorching winds to Bastet or Hathor.

Availability:

Ra, Set

Thoth, god of scribes

Technology:

Thoth is also god of the measurement of time... there's got to be some technology he can provide that's relevant to an RTS. Writing and calendars really aren't, though, are they?

Myth Units: Mummy

(can curse enemies to kill them and turn them into Minions)

God Power:

(missing)

Availability:

Osiris, Set

So for Bastet: If you decide to give a Khatyt/Mastyt sort of unit to Sekhmet, Bastet could have the Uraeus. If you give Isis a Magician/Mage, Bastet could have the Serpent of the Duat. If you decide to give a Sacred Bull to Hathor, Bastet could have the Sphinx. Otherwise, an option is to give her the Set-animal, if you can think of a unique set of abilities for it. Or give a Sacred Bull to Ptah, and the Crocodile-ram to Bastet, though that's a bit awkward for her.

I'm sorry I don't have many ideas for additional myth units. But here are some that might inspire you:

Winged giraffe. It know it sounds ridiculous, but apparently they show up in Middle Kingdom art. A giraffe could have a powerful kick, and it if flew up and then came down with all four hooves on a unit, the trample damage could be useful. http://www.touregypt.net/featurestories/beasts.htm

Akhekh: sometimes this name just refers to a griffin, but an akhekh can also have the body of an antelope instead of a lion, and/or the head of a Set-animal instead of a falcon.

Two-headed bull: I don't know what this would be or do, but supposedly it was once illustrated on an ancient Egyptian artifact.

Tusked whale/cryptid/thing: According to cryptozoo, a whale-sized cryptid once washed up on a beach in Egypt. It supposedly had two long tusks sticking out sideways from its mouth, "cilia like appendages" around its lips, and no sign of eyes. http://cryptozoo-oscity.blogspot.com/2010/...n-cryptids.html

Different topic, but I was going to say, the Green Knight's instant-kill ability should be decapitating somebody with a huge axe, 'cause that's what everybody expects him to do to Gawain.

Edited August 4, 2010 by Aldandil

[oshron]

Hmm... I really like the Major gods and the way you distributed the Minor gods among them.

MAJOR GODS

Osiris

Bonus: Living Gods

- makes Viziers as strong as Pharaohs

http://education.meetup.com/71/

Technology:

Can he increase farm output? He's the agriculture god after all.

God Power:

(missing)

Ra

Bonus:

(missing)

Technology:

(missing)

God Power:

Baking an area with heat that gives enemy units extra fatigue? I don't know if fatigue is in the game at all.

yes, fatigue could work. maybe his god power could be "Exhaustion" and is invoked in an area (see, with god powers, there are little icons on the screen that show where they are, there would be 5 in total, and you click on those to get a special cursor for the godpower and then can decide where to invoke it, either on a specific unit, in an area of varying sizes, or anywhere to affect the whole map--it varies with each godpower). after Exhaustion is invoked in an area, it could slow down any enemies that were hit by it, making them go more slowly. im thinking it would be best for escapes.

Set

Bonus: Slavery

- a percentage of killed enemy mortals become Slaves

Technology:

Can he increase the speed at which units can traverse desert terrain? If it's normally hard or slow to pass over, could he change the pathfinding equations for Egyptian units to make desert as easy as grass to cross? Alternatively, this could be a bonus and Slavery could be the tech, since it isn't so supernatural.

God Power: Drought

- slows down enemy food production (great idea!)

some sort of desert tech would be good, yeah. maybe it could be something like "Lost Roads" that set reveals to his followers, which allows them to move over rough terrain more easily ("rough terrain" refers to terrain like deserts, snow, mountains, and swamps; even if its unrealistic, this is so that it would work on any map and not just in deserts)

MINOR GODS

Bastet, goddess of cats

She's also a fertility goddess, if that helps with ideas.

Technology: Sacred Cats

- increases food production (cats kill vermin) This is a great idea.

Myth Units:

(missing)

God Power:

(missing)

Availability:

Ra, Set

Ma'at, goddess of law and truth

Technology: Petsuchos

(makes Ammit stronger),

Crocodilopolis

(effects undecided) I didn't know that upgrading a myth unit has to be a technology separate from having the unit itself. Hmm.

Myth Units: Ammit

(regenerates health by fighting, loses health by hunger)

God Power:

(missing)

Availability:

Osiris, Ra

one of the most common types of mythical techs in the game are myth unit upgrade techs, which simply make all the specified myth units of that player more powerful, sometimes giving them a special attack (for example, i plan for the Roman Fauns to have no attack to begin with and instead serve as supportive units, but when theyre upgraded, they acquire a shouting attack based on Pan that they can use occasionally)

Sobek, god of crocodiles

Technology:

Maybe making boats faster or harder to destroy?

Myth Units: Reme pa-Yar

(terrestrial, splits into spawn when killed, heals wounds in water),

El Naddahah

(naval, effects undecided, but will probably be a nastier version of the Celtic Lake Maiden)

God Power:

Maybe summoning 3 or 4 crocodiles to just ambush somebody from the water and then go back underwater? Is that too boring?

Availability:

Osiris, Set

i had had thoughts about giving sobek a "Frenzy" godpower that summons crocodiles, but that would only work on water, so i probably need something that could work on land as well

Hathor, goddess of love and motherhood

Technology:

Perhaps speeds up the breeding and food output of corralled livestock? I know, that's kind of weak.

Myth Units: Sphinx

(effects undecided)

God Power:

(missing)

Availability:

Osiris, Ra

breeding and food generation isnt a bad idea at all! ill try to come up with something for that

Khepri, god of beetles

Mainly he's a god of the sun and resurrection.

Technology:

(missing)

Myth Units: Giant Scarab

(living siege, bleeds upon death to hurt nearby enemies)

God Power:

Maybe he resurrects one dead Egyptian unit, or else Osiris could do that. Or if you can't think up anything better, they both could, since you can't have both in the same game.

Availability:

Ra, Set

a resurrecting god power wouldnt be a bad idea

Khnum, god of the Nile

Technology: Osirica

(effects undecided, but benefits buildings) Because Ptah is the god of buildings and architects, and Khnum is the god of pottery and the maker of human souls on his potter's wheel, what about Khnum making human reproduction (and thus new support and citizen-solider units) cheaper, while Ptah improves the strength of buildings and/or the weapons and armor?

Myth Units: Uraeus

(effects undecided, but will probably be a rehash of AOM's Wadjet) Since Uraei were associated with fire instead of water, here's my idea: The Uraeus starts out as a venom-spitting cobra. It can be upgraded to breathe fire, and again to give it arms and a big bronze knife. Give it to Bastet or Sekhmet, and give Khnum the Apep-spawn since it is a naval/water unit and he's a naval/water god. Does that make sense?

God Power:

If you think it's too powerful for the River-man to have, you can give Khnum a flood that hurts enemy units.

Availability:

Osiris, Set

im not too sure about giving it arms and a knife, but going from poison to fire is certainly something. im personally content with where i have the apep-spawn and changed it so that Ra wouldnt be able to get them as you suggested

Anubis, god of mummification

Technology: Bow of Fatality

(makes archers stronger),

Canopic Jars

(makes Pharaohs revive faster) Nice idea, interesting. Is that literally reviving after dying?

Myth Units: Khaty

God Power: Boils

- afflicts enemies in an area with boils, hurting them and preventing them from working or fighting

Availability:

Osiris, Ra, Set

its not them LITERALLY reviving on the spot; the egyptians are a sovereign culture (theres descriptions of that earlier in the thread), meaning they get one "ruler" hero, in this case the pharaoh. when a sovereign hero is killed, you have to wait one minute and then a successor will appear (the celts are another example, and have an actual King in reference to King Arthur; suppose the celts had, say, "King George XII", and he dies in battle. after one minute, he's replaced by his successor, "King George XIII". they wont have those names, but thats just an example). the canopic jars just make it so that the pharaoh's successor appears faster. theres no difference between successor and predecessor except for their name and maybe variant appearances for realism (so there could maybe be pharaohs in each of the skin tones common to egypt, which varied from mediterranean pink to nubian black, iirc)

Isis, goddess of nature and magic

Technology:

She could increase the abilities of healers, since healing is one of her areas. She's also more about royalty than nature, I think.

Myth Units: Serpent of Duat

(effects undecided; it fits since Osiris is the god of the underworld and Isis is his wife) Makes sense. But, wait! Were you planning to give magician units to any civilization? Because they'd be perfect for Isis, if you did. But the Serpent of the Duat is too cool not to use. My idea was that it starts out with four legs, one head, and a venomous bite. Its upgrades are: Multiple heads, increases bite attack; More heads replacing the tail, giving it two separate attacks and the ability to attack in two different directions, against two different units; A third pair of legs, increasing land speed; And wings, letting it fly over water and some obstacles.

God Power:

She could heal units or temporarily increase the ability of healers in an area.

Availability:

Osiris, Ra

she could perhaps benefit heroes? the viziers and pharaohs use magic, after all, and she could help magician units when they become available. in response to your myth unit question, yes, magicians and mounted magicians are planned, but not in the initial release. theyd still become available to the egyptians, though. i think serpent of duat wings would probably be vestigial. even when the Japanese Tengu gets wings, he still isnt allowed to fly, he just gets a leaping attack (maybe that could also be applied to the serpent?). ill check to see if ive given "Restoration" to a different god already. if i havent, itll go to isis.

Ptah, god of creation

Technology:

He's the god of craftsmen, including smiths and architects, so anything that improves buildings, armor, or weapons would be excellent.

Myth Units: Crocodile-ram

(terrestrial, effects undecided),

Apep-spawn

(naval, effects undecided)

God Power:

(missing)

Availability:

Set

Horus, god of kings

Technology:

(missing)

Myth Units: Tjatjau

(effects undecided, but will probably be a rehash of <a href="

http://java

script: newwindow('avenger.htm',520,450)" target="_blank">AOM's Avenger</a>) Tjatjau is plural, Tjatja would be the singular.

God Power: Son of Osiris

- transforms a Pharaoh into a Son of Osiris hero, borrowed from AOM (this is a great idea)

Availability:

Osiris, Ra

tjatja, got it. thanks on the son of osiris; that was osiris' god power in AOM (in that game, he was a minor god while isis was a major one, which was silly)

Sekhmet, goddess of war and the desert

Technology:

She could improve weapon quality, or something related to weapons.

Myth Units:

I recommend Uraeus, or else you could choose to give her a fire-breathing, spear-wielding, lioness-headed female Khatyt, if that's not too repetitive. The name I finally thought of is Mastyt, meaning "executioner."

God Power: Hail

- calls on a storm of fire and ice to slow down all movement and hurt all enemies, especially their buildings (note: this used to be Sandstorm, but was replaced for situations, because not all maps will have sand) I really like this, but just make it fire and hot wind, not ice. She was considered responsible for scorching winds, and for plague too for that matter. You could even give her a plague power (even give her Boils, but I don't have an idea for Anubis' power then) and give scorching winds to Bastet or Hathor.

Availability:

Ra, Set

a lion-headed minor divinity wouldnt be too bad. maybe it could be deceptively weak normally only to have a devastating special attack? as for hail, it was not only to go with sekhmet's powers but also in reference to the plagues of egypt. i do that elsewhere with the egyptian god powers, too, like anubis' boils. since theres some inconsistency in one of the plagues being either hail or fire, i decided to call it hail but gave it both traits. alternatively, i could--IDEA! maybe her god power could instead be "acid rain" which has virtually the same effects, and this also leaves hail available to another faction!

another thing with god powers that im trying to do is make it so that "natural disaster" god powers are mostly limited to the legend phase, and only two minor gods give them. for example, the greek legend phase god powers are Solar Flare, which incinerates units and buildings, Lightning Storm, self-explanatory, and Underworld Passage, which creates a portal between two points on the map

Thoth, god of scribes

Technology:

Thoth is also god of the measurement of time... there's got to be some technology he can provide that's relevant to an RTS. Writing and calendars really aren't, though, are they?

Myth Units: Mummy

(can curse enemies to kill them and turn them into Minions)

God Power:

(missing)

Availability:

Osiris, Set

he could benefit technology

So for Bastet: If you decide to give a Khatyt/Mastyt sort of unit to Sekhmet, Bastet could have the Uraeus. If you give Isis a Magician/Mage, Bastet could have the Serpent of the Duat. If you decide to give a Sacred Bull to Hathor, Bastet could have the Sphinx. Otherwise, an option is to give her the Set-animal, if you can think of a unique set of abilities for it. Or give a Sacred Bull to Ptah, and the Crocodile-ram to Bastet, though that's a bit awkward for her.

I'm sorry I don't have many ideas for additional myth units. But here are some that might inspire you:

Winged giraffe. It know it sounds ridiculous, but apparently they show up in Middle Kingdom art. A giraffe could have a powerful kick, and it if flew up and then came down with all four hooves on a unit, the trample damage could be useful. http://www.touregypt.net/featurestories/beasts.htm

perhaps that winged giraffe could got to bastet, instead, because i REALLY dont want to give her any of the serpent MUs. a flying giraffe may be unfitting of the cat goddess, but snakes are even MORE unfitting

Akhekh: sometimes this name just refers to a griffin, but an akhekh can also have the body of an antelope instead of a lion, and/or the head of a Set-animal instead of a falcon.

this is another possibility

Two-headed bull: I don't know what this would be or do, but supposedly it was once illustrated on an ancient Egyptian artifact.

Tusked whale/cryptid/thing: According to cryptozoo, a whale-sized cryptid once washed up on a beach in Egypt. It supposedly had two long tusks sticking out sideways from its mouth, "cilia like appendages" around its lips, and no sign of eyes. http://cryptozoo-oscity.blogspot.com/2010/...n-cryptids.html

Different topic, but I was going to say, the Green Knight's instant-kill ability should be decapitating somebody with a huge axe, 'cause that's what everybody expects him to do to Gawain.

not too sure about that bull, but a tusked whale certainly sounds interesting. it would also help out with their lack of naval units. it could be very powerful but have terrible line of sight

as for the green knight, maybe he could have variation to his special attack: at range, he uses the roots, but uses his axe against adjacent units. for censorship and simplicity, they would just die instantly

[Alpha of the Eagles]

Haha, when reading about Sobek, it struck me how annoying and awesome it would look if a bunch of AI crocodiles (say 20-30) came running out of the waters, and they were really fast, just running around looking for enemies, with an okay or somewhat decent attack, but requires only a few punches to kill (a sort of allied computer that lasts very short). It wouldn't really be dangerous on it's own, but properly timed and with the 'scare' factor (OMG he has millions of units!!!) .

[Aldandil]

The reason I suggested Uraei could upgrade to have arms is because they sometimes do get arms in artwork. Sometimes they get wings instead. There's no hard, clear line that distinguishes Uraei from Serpents of the Duat, really.

a lion-headed minor divinity wouldnt be too bad. maybe it could be deceptively weak normally only to have a devastating special attack? as for hail, it was not only to go with sekhmet's powers but also in reference to the plagues of egypt. i do that elsewhere with the egyptian god powers, too, like anubis' boils. since theres some inconsistency in one of the plagues being either hail or fire, i decided to call it hail but gave it both traits. alternatively, i could--IDEA! maybe her god power could instead be "acid rain" which has virtually the same effects, and this also leaves hail available to another faction!

Hm, But the plagues in Egypt were caused by the Hebrew God, aka the Supreme Being, right? So that makes more sense as a Christian thing supplied by an angel, with the Egyptian gods doing their traditional things. Sekhmet was often blamed for both plagues and overly hot desert winds. I can't think of anything else for Anubis and Boils works for him, but having a rain of fire would be very cool for Sekhmet. And she's Legend Phase, right? So that should be OK.

I once made a list of the way different Greek gods (including Titans) would smite people. For reasons now unknown to me, I had Kronos smiting people with "ice meteors." I still have no idea where that came from, but depending on whether you are treating Kronos as a sky god or an agricultural god similar to Saturn, you could give him icy hail that hurts units and wrecks crops. (OK, a rain of fire would also wreck crops, actually.)

perhaps that winged giraffe could got to bastet, instead, because i REALLY dont want to give her any of the serpent MUs. a flying giraffe may be unfitting of the cat goddess, but snakes are even MORE unfitting

Well actually, Bastet, Sakhmet, Hathor, and Wadjet were all considered to be fire-breathing "Eyes" of Re, and to some extent interchangeable in the myths. Wadjet was even occasionally depicted with the head of a lioness because of her association with Sekhmet. That's why I suggested giving the Uraeus to one of the three, because they are closely associated, and Uraei aren't associated with the river or water, so they don't really fit with Khnum, whereas Apep is associated with water.

Yeah, the two-headed bull doesn't seem so promising to me. But the whale could be nice. Supposedly it washed up from the Gulf of Suez, so if I can find out the ancient Egyptian name of the Sinai penninsula or the Gulf of Suez, it could be named the Beast of XYZ or something. Or just Beast of Suez, I guess. Tusked Whale would work too.

Edited August 5, 2010 by Aldandil

[oshron]

The reason I suggested Uraei could upgrade to have arms is because they sometimes do get arms in artwork. Sometimes they get wings instead. There's no hard, clear line that distinguishes Uraei from Serpents of the Duat, really.

i was planning to treat them as seperate entities

Hm, But the plagues in Egypt were caused by the Hebrew God, aka the Supreme Being, right? So that makes more sense as a Christian thing supplied by an angel, with the Egyptian gods doing their traditional things. Sekhmet was often blamed for both plagues and overly hot desert winds. I can't think of anything else for Anubis and Boils works for him, but having a rain of fire would be very cool for Sekhmet. And she's Legend Phase, right? So that should be OK.

true, but i thought they would go well for the egyptians as well, because i didnt want to just copy AOM in this sense. the plagues are as associated with egypt as they are with the hebrews

Well actually, Bastet, Sakhmet, Hathor, and Wadjet were all considered to be fire-breathing "Eyes" of Re, and to some extent interchangeable in the myths. Wadjet was even occasionally depicted with the head of a lioness because of her association with Sekhmet. That's why I suggested giving the Uraeus to one of the three, because they are closely associated, and Uraei aren't associated with the river or water, so they don't really fit with Khnum, whereas Apep is associated with water.

no comment

Yeah, the two-headed bull doesn't seem so promising to me. But the whale could be nice. Supposedly it washed up from the Gulf of Suez, so if I can find out the ancient Egyptian name of the Sinai penninsula or the Gulf of Suez, it could be named the Beast of XYZ or something. Or just Beast of Suez, I guess. Tusked Whale would work too.

i think maybe Suez Whale would probably be the best name. what do you think?

[Aldandil]

Other things:

If no other idea comes to you, Ma'et's God Power could be Offering Ma'et to the Gods or Presentation of Ma'et or somesuch, which temporarily boosts all the bonuses of every god currently used by the player, including Ma'et's own. This is based roughly on the practice that, when presenting offerings of food and beer to the gods, a pharaoh could substitute an image of Ma'et or even just her feather instead of food and beer, and the theology that the gods "live on" ma'et. The idea is that Ma'et uses her god power to strengthen the other gods, and also at the same time boosts her own bonus, whatever it is.

For Khepri or Re: the bonus could be a boost to all units' line-of-sight.

For a potential Sacred Bull unit: Bakh (Buchis) was credited with healing powers, especially healing eye disease. So a Sacred Bull could perhaps be a combat unit that also heals nearby units, or boosts their line-of-sight.

i was planning to treat them as seperate entities

I wasn't suggesting otherwise, just that Uraei could reasonably have arms or wings.

true, but i thought they would go well for the egyptians as well, because i didnt want to just copy AOM in this sense. the plagues are as associated with egypt as they are with the hebrews

True.

i think maybe Suez Whale would probably be the best name. what do you think?

I don't really have an opinion. Unless some Egyptians gave it a name, Suez Whale is as good as any other. Edited August 5, 2010 by Aldandil

[oshron]

sorry to break away from the egyptian discussion, but i think i may have a idea for a 19th faction! i stated before that i had some ideas and a bit of a desire to include another amerindian faction based on the peoples of the pacific northwest. ive got three peoples that will be the primary focus: the tlingit, the haida, and the nootka ("nootka" is actually no longer used, but its alot easier to type than their native name. theyll have their native name in the final product). its also a relatively unique faction because they dont live in a generic forest or on plains or in a desert like alot of real amerindian tribes or even alot of the factions already in the game: they live in a rainforest! a temperate rainforest, but a rainforest nonetheless

now that i think about it, this may prove to be a tiny problem for the norse, because ill probably be transferring the norse skinwalker to the pacific northwest tribes (im still trying to find a collective name for them). but thats a small price to pay for finally being able to include them!

and now that i have a 19th faction, there needs to be a 20th as well. what do you all think would be a good idea for the 20th faction? a couple ive had in the past would be either a shamanic korean or a vietnamese/buddhist faction (nearly all other major modern religions are included, the only reason buddhism isnt in there already is because its not a particularly violent faith like the others)

[oshron]

ive been redoing some of the factions. im working on teh greeks at the moment and im trying to make some decisions on their citizen-soldiers. what i have at the moment and will definitively keep are Hoplites (spearmen), Toxotes (archers), and Peltasts (javelinists). their units will be virtually the same as with 0ad's hellenes, but i wanted to expand a little bit. aside from those aforementioned three, i also have down Hippeus (cavalry swordsman), Cataphract (cavalry spearman), Prodromos (cavalry javelinist), Lithobolos (onager), and Oxybeles (ballista). the siege are all fine and i dont want to change much on that, but the cavalry are what im having problems with at the moment. i want to limit it to two cavalry. which do you think i should have?

[Aldandil]

Since I'm usually the only person who replies to you on this thread and I don't know much about ancient Greek military, I think that's a question for the philhellene experts in the 0 A.D. team. Sorry.

Pacific Northwest is an interesting idea for a North American faction. Their architecture is substantial and distinctive, too, and they'll be able to launch large war canoes.

[oshron]

exactly. i think teh reason a desire for a native american faction aside from aztecs stems from the fact that one of my first world mythology books had an entire section about the PNW in particular

EDIT: ive started doing some preliminary research into the PNW faction and have decided to make the haida be the "good" faction, with the "good" major god for the civilization being Raven. the haida viewed him as the creator and provider of mankind, but he's also known for being a trickster. i imagine him to end up maybe being kind of like loki in the final product (also a trickster). still trying to find major gods for the tlingit and the nootka

Edited August 8, 2010 by oshron

[SMST]

If you want to cut away a greek cavalry unit, it would be the Cataphract. This unit was a invention of the Late Antiquity and not used in Classical times.

[oshron]

good point. hippeus and prodromos it is, then

speaking of cavalry and such units, what do you think of replacing the aztec dog unit that i currently have as their only cavalry with a "runner" type unit (i had always thought that "runners" would be a good alternative to cavalry for civs that didnt use horses). if thats the case, then ill be making the eagle warrior their "cavalry" unit and then i'll need to come up with a new city phase super unit for them (if you remember, the aztec hero unit is the jaguar war, so he's out of the question there)

Edited August 8, 2010 by oshron

[SirWolf]

I'd love to help you guys out in the initial planning here, but I've read almost all the pages and most of it is just ideas spread over many posts, do you guys have an outline file or topic/site where all the plans and suggestions are categorized by civs/gods/units/buildings/techs etc? If not it would be very beneficial to have something like that, any changes/suggestions can be easily incorporated into the scheme.

[oshron]

i have it all in a series of documents on my harddrive (been meaning to get copies onto a flashdrive in case my harddrive crashes again), but thats about it. ive been contemplating making files for it all on my deviantart account or possibly on a wiki that i have for seperate projects. at the moment, though, i only have them as word documents.

but what would you like to help with, sirwolf?

[Aldandil]

It would be a lot easier to follow if there was a master document with the latest version of your plans in outline form somewhere online for easy reference.

EDIT: It would also provide at least one backup if you suffer another total hardware implosion...

Edited August 9, 2010 by Aldandil

[SirWolf]

he just said it all

that way people could easily contribute ideas as well.

[oshron]

good points. ill see what i can do about all that when i can, but im trying to switch my primary focus over to academics at the moment; i REALLY need to focus on that

[oshron]

i started up an online version of the plans for the game. i put it up at "Rplegacy-Database", a wiki-type website that i use to record information for another project, an RPG-centered message board. here's a link:

http://rplegacy-database.wikispaces.com/

type "mythology" into the search bar to find information on the mod

[SirWolf]

great! u should edit your first post and place the info bout that there too.

[oshron]

excellent idea, sirwolf

now, what exactly was it that you wanted to help out with?

[SirWolf]

Quite honestly I said that to seem more friendly towards this whole little AoM2 project of yours =P

When it comes to modeling/programming the features for this project I could certainly help =)

Oh and btw oshron - the link u provided leads to the main page, not everyone might know to search for "mythology", I suggest this link instead:

http://rplegacy-database.wikispaces.com/se.../view/mythology