post-0 AD idea: mythology

[oshron]

the one in the first post leads to the navigation page that has instructions to find everything

so what do you all think about an eagle warrior serving as aztec cavalry

Edited August 11, 2010 by oshron

[SirWolf]

oh, my bad, looked at it quickly and didn't notice the navigation instructions.

Sounds like something taken out of AoK(Conquerors exp.). Well if this happened in real life ages ago a warrior and a horse dressed like an eagle would definitely scare the attacker to some extent.

[oshron]

i know, but the aztec faction in godstorm dates to just before the arrival of the spanish, so legit cavalry are out of the question. however, like in AOK, theres the option of making the aztec cavalry a "runner" unit, which would be the eagle warrior. otherwise, they would have an entirely fictional dog unit for their cavalry (the cro-magnons also have dog cavalry). no matter, what, there ALWAYS has to be at least one unit of each general grouping (melee infantry, ranged infantry, cavalry, siege, and ships) to give every civilization at least a chance against other civilizations. therefore, the cro-magnons have a fictionalized ram and the aztecs have a completely off-the-wall atlantis-type ballista

[Aldandil]

Can't you fill in the missing unit types mainly with myth units? So the Cro Magnons don't have any mortal siege units, but they can get mammoths/Anancus/whatever, plus firestarters, both being anti-building myth units. That would allow you to fill in "holes" in each civilization with slightly less fiction.

[oshron]

possibly, but i think i'd prefer to get some kind of type for each one anyway. if necessary, yes, myth units can replace those

[Aldandil]

By the way, I was reading about Egyptian griffins and apparently Akhekh, Sefer, and Teshtesh are all names for the same animal, the griffin. I don't know the name of the griffin that has a Set-animal head, but I now doubt the source that claimed they can have antelope hooves.

[oshron]

okay. griffins are in the game, btw, as a persian myth unit

[Aldandil]

I know, but I had mentioned Akhekh earlier as a potential Egyptian unit, and I wanted to correct/update what I told you.

[oshron]

got it

[oshron]

ive been doing some more research into all this, actually using a darn BOOK this time instead of just the internet (made what i think is some pretty good progress on the mesopotamians) and im working on the egyptians right now. ive been reworking some of their units and whatnot, but ill just post all of the new stuff ive come up with:

the Egyptians are still a Sovereign civilization that acquire a Pharaoh automatically and for free and can train Viziers to support the Pharaoh

ive reformed their favor generation method: while they still build special monuments, ive cut it down to just three and come up with coptic names for all of them: the Touwt is the basic monument and available for the entire game; you can have up to 3 of them per civic center and they can take on numerous different appearances, just for hopeful authenticity (so this could potentially include small step pyramids, miniature sphinxes, or statues of gods such as anubis); the Touwt Rro is a more advanced monument available from teh City Phase onwards, and is supposed to be roughly equivalent to "Monument to the Pharaoh". this one you can only have one of per territory and you need to have a temple in order to build it (in case you lost an earlier temple or if its a scenario that started you off in the city phase without a temple). the third and final monument is the Touwt Xoout, or "Monument to the Gods", which individually produces more favor faster than any of the other monuments, and is supposed to depict the major god of the player (so if you played as Ra, it would depict a man with a falcon's head, for example), and you are required to control a Temple of the Gods and be in the Legend Phase to acquire it. you can only have one monument to the gods period. all of the monuments except for the one to gods can be captured by other players, but only egyptians can continue to acquire favor from them

not that many changes have been made to the major gods. ive decided to give a coptic name to set's slave units, renaming them "Xal" (but theyre still referred to as "Xal slaves" in the description for simplicty). im starting to reconsider Set's technology, "Ships of the Desert"

the egyptian mainstay infantry is a khopesh-wielding swordsman

their mainstay ranged soldier is an archer armed with a hyksos-style composite bow (remember, theyre dated to the New Kingdom, and the egyptian armies of that time were heavily influenced by the hyksos)

they also have two other ranged soldiers, a javelinist and a slinger. i havent come up with much for them yet

magicians and standard bearers are still debatable

the egyptians also get two cavalry soldiers, both chariots: a spearman and an archer, both of which have less armor and health but are consequently faster (New Kingdom chariots were lighter than those of other Middle Eastern civs of the time). yes, suprisingly, they DONT get regular camel cavalry! i looked it up and they didnt really use them.

the egyptian demigods thus far are still the Mi-neb and the Medjay (siege infantry and versatile archer, respectively). just to give them a sort-of characteristic middle eastern unit, im debating whether or not i should give them a camelry soldier as another demigod and which god to give it to: Osiris or Set?

war elephants are also possibilities, but they didnt historically use elephants at that time

ive also got names for most of the egyptian buildings:

Civic Center = Baki

House = Xw

Farmstead = Qwpro

Field = Koie

Corral = Xoi

Mill = Axo

Barracks = still need a name

Outpost/Tower = Meqtwl (im debating which of these two i should give them: the freestanding outpost or the wall tower? whichever one is chosen will get the name)

Wall = Sobt

Gate = Kerso

Dock = Mooun

Market = Xosb

Temple = Rpe

Fortress = Periperoi (this term refers to a royal palace; from what i could find, there's no equivalent word in coptic to "fortress" or "stronghold" or something similar)

Temple of the Gods = Au Rpe (combing the words for "great" and "temple")

Wonder = Moeixe (im not exactly sure on the sense of the word here, but it was the more likely of the other translations i found because it listed ONLY wonder and not synonyms such as "amazement")

also, each of the major gods gets a "different" wonder even though they are all functionally the same building: Osiris gets the Giza Pyramid, Ra get's a Sun Temple, and Set get's the Temple of Karnak

thats about it

[Aldandil]

That sounds nice. I agree that camelry doesn't seem right for the Egyptians. The basic monument could be a divine statue or small sphinx, or even an obelisk (I would not use mini pyramids).

An important word about names: If I were you I would use Ancient Egyptian wherever possible. Unfortunately, I can tell that you apparently found the Coptic words on a website that uses a font that you don't have, resulting in ASCII-esque nonsense words that aren't actually Coptic. There might be a way to find out which Coptic letters the website is trying to display, but then you would have to go to yet another website to find out how each Coptic letter is thought to have been pronounced and how to transliterate it into readable Latin script... trust me, it's a huge pain and hardly worth it.

You'll be far better off to just ask the history and/or language buffs to help you find a decent Ancient Egyptian dictionary (I'd say avoid Budge, but he's better than the Coptic source you're using now.) and/or help you with translations.

Just, whatever you do, don't use those names you have now. They're unfortunately not Coptic. For example, the Coptic for "gods" is Ntair (pronounced Ndayr), Ntere (pronounced Nde`rə), and Nter (pronounced Ndêr). Xoout isn't even close. Likewise, the Ancient Egyptian for wall was yneb, which couldn't have become sobt in Coptic. Ancient Egyptian for field is sekhet, or sôshe in Coptic (not koie), etc. I am sorry that you went to the trouble to do that research and the website was so unhelpful, but it's the truth.

Edited September 3, 2010 by Aldandil

[oshron]

well i thank you for your assistance on those names. ill go change those now before i forget. i HAVE tried to use actual ancient egyptian (or an approximation of that) in the past, but they just never really turned up much that i felt i could really use. if you have any other ideas or sources for names i could give, id be glad to hear them

while im at it, i oughta share the names for units that i have thus far in case those are incorrect, too:

-- Shfe (Infantry Swordsman; "coptic" word for sword)

-- (Infantry Archer; uses a composite bow; no name atm)

-- Merex (Infantry Javelinist; "coptic" word for spear or javelin)

-- (Infantry Slinger; no name atm)

-- Naxbi Brqoout (Cavalry Spearman; "coptic" words for spear and chariot)

-- (Cavalry Archer; uses a composite bow; no name atm, but "Brqoout" was planned to be part of it--couldnt find a word for bow or archer)

-- Sauxs (Female Citizen; "coptic" word for woman)

-- Barwx (Merchant; "coptic" word referring to a pack animal that is not a donkey, probably a camel)

-- Moui (Ram; "coptic" word for ram, intended as a siege tower)

-- (Merchant Ship; no name yet, but "Qaqetol" was planned--it's a "coptic" word for a light ship)

-- Louboie (Medium Warship; a "coptic" word referring to a Nile River boat, planned as a barge with soldiers that fire flaming arrows from the deck)

i actually DID come up with what i THINK is an ancient egyptian name for a ship exactly like the Louboie a while ago but had apparently given it up. the word was "Weskhet". i could probably re-implement this name for the egyptian warship

[Aldandil]

If those names come from the same source, they're undoubtably not Coptic. Any Coptic source that gives you words with the letter q is most likely using a font you don't have. I.e., when you see q, you're supposed to see some Coptic letter instead. (With most languages those unpronouceable 3- and 4-consonant clusters would be another clue the words aren't real, but... Coptic is full of crazy consonant clusters anyway.)

There are Ancient Egyptian dictionaries, the trouble is they are not books that a typical public library is likely to have. You'd need to ask if there are any linguists on the boards who could help.

Another issue: when translating, you can't always just type in one word and expect one word to translate it exactly. For example, the word ram: if you just look for the translation of ram, you are more likely to be given the word for the animal than for a battering ram. Same with wonder (a noun but also an emotion).

EDIT: Oh wait! I know a free Ancient Egyptian dictionary online. I can try to get translations. Do you have a list of all the units and buildings and town/settlement types you need names for? I can try to find names for these, though I can't do all of them I can get you some words.

Edited September 3, 2010 by Aldandil

[oshron]

yeah, gimme a sec, ill put it all up:

Pharaoh (their quintessential hero; i dont think any new word is needed, but if there's one available that makes it more authentic, then so much the better)

Vizier (mass-production hero, same with the pharaoh situation)

Governor (was looking it up recently and mention of provincial governors came up, so maybe this would be better than having mass-production viziers since there was historically only one vizier)

Monument (thanks to your recent input, "Touwt" is probably incorrect, so if theres a word for something like statue or idol or monument or the like, itd be much appreciated)

"to the Pharaoh" (just a translation of pharaoh, ruler, king, something along those lines would be good)

"to the Gods" (same as with the above, but ive already inserted "Ntere" so this one is of less priority)

Slave (just for Set's bonus; i plan for pretty much all god powers and techs to be in english where applicable so that the player would more easily understand)

these ones are for actual units:

Swordsman (khopesh)

Archer (composite bow)

Skirmisher (or Javelin-thrower, Spear-thrower, "throw-stick", anything that could apply to a javelinist)

Slinger

Magician (just in case this one is added)

Standard Bearer (or flag-bearer, signaler, or anything similar, just in case this one is added)

Spear Chariot (or the name could be "Melee Chariot" or something similar, or even just "Chariot"

Chariot Archer (same situation as the above; this one would require an additional word: the melee chariot could be just "Chariot" while this one is "Chariot Archer"

Woman (for the female citizen)

Merchant/Trader/something similar

Healer (just in case this one is added)

Ram/Siege Tower

Barge (for the trade ship; Weskhet will probably suffice for their only warship, but id need to figure out what it means again)

Fishing Ship

Axeman (just to be safe, for their "siege infantry" axeman unit)

Town/City/Citadel (Civic Center)

House

Farm (or something similar, for the Farmstead)

Pen/Enclosure/Corral

Mill/Storehouse/Cellar/something similar

Tower (again, this will go for EITHER the outpost or walltower: i only want to give them one of them

Gate/Doorway/similar

Dock/Port/Harbor/similar

Market

Barracks/Camp (for their military center)

Temple

Fortress/Stronghold/Palace/Fort/similar

Great (to add on to "Temple" for their Temple of the Gods, or it could be named after a historical cult center)

i didnt include one for the wonder because i guess that the words for "great" and "monument" could be combined, or it could possibly be named after an authentic egyptian word for a pyramid, but only if the word is different from the english pyramid (since the pyramids are their most recognizable monuments)

ill also throw in some of the english words that were being used for their myth units:

"Winged Giraffe" (this is currently Bastet's myth unit)

"Clay Man", "Mud Man" (or something similar; this is the mudman we discussed before, and he currently has the name "Reme pa-Yar", but i just want to be certain here, in case there's anything else that can be used)

"Sphinx" (again, just in case theres a more authentic egyptian word)

"Giant Scarab" (im pretty sure that "scarab" is already just the egyptian word for "dung beetle", but i once again just want to be sure; if nothing else, "giant" will come in handy here)

"Serpent of Duat" (i personally think this name is perfectly fine, but, once more, being certain cant hurt; just "serpent" would probably be fine)

"Crocodile-ram" (currently plugged in as a unit for Ptah)

"Mummy"

if you could also give me a link to this other dictionary, id be very much obliged

[Aldandil]

Its best not to translate word-for-word individual phrases or words and then trying to combine them, the result will only be as good as Babelfish, and if you've ever used that to translate a non-English website so you can read it, you know how awkward that is. Words in different languages don't exactly correspond to each other one-for-one. It is necessary (and will give far more accurate results) to provide whole phrases to be translated, or even better to just describe each unit, building, etc. that needs a name.

Pharaoh = Per-aa, which literally means "great house" and is apparently one of a king's standard titles. There is also a word for king: Nesu-Bity.

Vizier = Taty

Governor = Heqa-hut (district governor) or Hateya (nomarch)

Monument: Shesep = statue, Khenty = statue, Menu is given as the translation of "monument" but without details.

to the Pharaoh and to the Gods: I can't properly translate these without more context. The phrase or concept that you need a word for, that I can try to translate.

Slave = Nedjet

Swordsman: Neken and Meshu are both words that mean sword, but I would be happier if I knew enough grammar to tell you "sword-soldier" or "sword-man." At some point (I have no clue when) I'll be checking out Loprieno's book Ancient Egyptian: a linguistic introduction, and can then look up how New Kingdom grammar is put together, and maybe try to provide some better words/translations for you, especially for the phrases. Offhand I don't know how to do New Kingdom grammar, but in my lame attempt at Old Kingdom grammar, "sword-soldier" can be Wau-Neken or Wau-Meshu.

Axeman: There are two words that mean axe, Iqehu and Khepesh (which also means scimitar). Menfat is a word translated as "trained soldiers, assault troops, infantry, soldiery" while Wau means soldier. It seems that you could just use Wau for the swordsman and Menfat for the axeman (not the greatest but the word is technically gramatically written as a singular noun). You don't seem to have an infantry spear. The other option, at least for now, is to say Wau-Iqehu or Wau-Khepesh for "axe-soldier."

Archer: Iry-Pedjet and Pedjety both mean bowman. I do not know which of these is more correct for the grammar of the New Kingdom, but either should do for now.

Skirmisher/Javelin-thrower/Spear-thrower/Javelinist/Javelineer: Mega would work, since it apparently means skirmisher.

Slinger/Stone-thrower: I don't see a word for this, sorry.

Magician = Hekay. Sau also shows up in the dictionary for "magician," but I like Hekay better since I know Heka often gets translated as "magic."

Standard Bearer/Flag-bearer/Signaler: Again, no word is coming up.

Spear Chariot/Melee Chariot/Chariot: Two words for "chariot" show up (Wereryet and Merkebet), plus Seneny = chariot-soldier.

Chariot Archer: This one will be trickier and I don't have a good answer right now. At least for now Wereryet-Pedjety or Merkebet-Pedjety could work.

Woman = Hemet or Set-hemet

Merchant/Trader = Suty

Healer = Sunu, and unfortunately the same letters also spell the word for "tower." This is the problem with a language that is wrttn wtht n vwls!

Ram/Siege Tower: There is no direct translation but I have an idea of what to do.. again, it'll require checking out that Loprieno book. I'll need to construct a male present participle of one of the verbs Gua-r or Hemes-her, which would then mean "he that beseiges."

Barge: Kebnet is a seagoing ship, and may be your best bet for "merchant ship" since I'm not finding that. If you only envision them using the rivers, then there are other options that aren't specifically for sea ships: Depet, Sehret or Sehert, and Khementyu are all words that mean "ship."

Warship = Ahat

Fishing Ship/Fishing Boat: I haven't found any word for this or even for "fishing." There are words that just mean "boat" ... Mekha, Mek, Sehyet.

Town/City/Citadel/Civic Center: Iuyet seems the best translation for "civic center" while there are two words that can mean "town": Nyut, Demej

House = Aryet, Khenu, or At,

Farm/Farmstead: Ahet is a field of arable land or farmland (apparently sekhet is more generical and not automatically farmland?)

Pen/Enclosure/Corral: Well, Hermu is specifically for poultry, and while "enclosure" brings up Shenu and Sebty, I don't know what sort of "enclosure" those are.

Mill/Storehouse/Cellar: Several words mean "storehouse": Shenat, Shenau (also a "labor establishment," whatever that is), Khetem (also meaning "fort"), Mekher, and Wedja ... pick one, I guess.

Tower = Sunu, which unfortunately clashes with the one for "healer" above. My current solution is to make it Sunu-Rudjety, which is my attempt to say "tower of hard stone" although quite possibly grammatically incorrect.

Gate/Doorway = Arerut seems like the best choice, or just use Rut.

Wall: Ineb is a wall, but apparently Wemetet is a "thick wall," and Djery is an "enclosing wall," if either of those appeal to you more.

Dock/Port/Harbor = Menyut or Meneyut

Market: Unfortunately, I haven't found any word that would work for this.

Barracks/Camp/Military Center: The closest I can find is Tjaret, meaning a "cabin" or "established camp." Words that merely translate as "camp" are Ihu and Aany.

Temple and Great Temple/Temple of the Gods: Hut-Netjer is a temple of a god. Re-per and Per-Nesu also mean temple.

Fortress/Stronghold/Palace/Fort = Iteh or Menenu or Sefekhy

Great Monument: This is a hard one. Can you describe more what you have in mind? Is this an especially large temple, or a pyramid, or a giant sphinx? Is it dedicated to a god, all the gods, or a pharaoh? There are words for tomb-chapels that I didn't list under Temple, that could work for a pharaoh-specific temple.

Winged Giraffe: Memy = "giraffe" and Djenehwy and Dematwy both mean "two wings," but how to combine those together is trickier. It's not as simple as putting them together with some word for "with." This is a point at which I need Loprieno.

Clay Man/Mud Man/Reme pa-Yar = Remetj-Iteru, using my aforementioned lame attempt at Old Kingdom grammer. For a more literal "clay-may" you could try Remetj-Seyen or Remetj-Penes, but since in the Late Period they were called River-Men I would use Remetj-Iteru.

Sphinx = Shespu or Shesepu (sphinx is a Greek word)

Giant Scarab = Kheperer-aa (scarab again is not Egyptian, don't know the language that comes from)

Serpent of the Duat = Nau-Duaty

Crocodile-ram: Since I don't know what these things were actually called (if they had a name) one of these should work: Ba-Depy, Ba-Kapu, Ba-Meseh.

Mummy: Sah is a mummified person but for a fantastic mummy that gets up and walks around, I think Akh is much more appropriate.

And if you need Uraeus, there are several words to choose from: Iaret, Akhet, Tepet, Seby (inexplicably a masculine word, while uraei are always female AFAIK), and Watet.

The dictionary I'm using is at http://www.cliohist.net/hiero/index.htm

When you type in an English word, every Egyptian word with that English term somewhere in its definition will show up. So "crew (of ship), company (of soldiers), gang (of workmen)" comes up when you search for "ship." You get a bunch of words on the left-hand side, and if you click on any word a definition will come up on the right-hand side.

Mostly the hieroglyphs that accompany each Egyptian word just look like squares on my computer, but occasionally one of them is displayed as some gobbledygook such as "Z4aZ4aZ4aZ4a" or "T30a," so watch out for that sort of thing.

The key to the transliteration method is here: http://www.rostau.org.uk/aegyptian-l/learn...hierointro.html although with incomplete notes on transcribing it into something that at least looks pronounceable.

Edited September 5, 2010 by Aldandil

[oshron]

thanks so much for that. i updated the ones that you mentioned, but i decided to leave the Pharaoh as is

as for the "great monument", thats intended for the Wonder building (many RTS games have gigantic monuments, statues, etc., that are called Wonders), and its my intent to make it so that, while all wonders take up the same space on the map and are technically the same building, they each have a different appearance depending not on the civilization but on what Major God it belongs to (for example, Zeus' Wonder is the Temple of Zeus while Poseidon's is the Colossus of Rhodes, they are still referred to as the same building by the same name; this "function" was present in Age of Mythology)

this is why naming can be a bit tricky and i asked for just an approximation of "great monument" so that it could refer to any building: Osiris' Wonder is the Pyramid of Giza, Ra's is an Egyptian Sun Temple, and Set's is the Temple of Karnak (iirc, Karnak was the center of Set's cult)

EDIT: oh, and maybe just "kings" would be good instead of "to the Pharaoh"; thats intended for the monument buildings that generate favor i mentioned before

Edited September 4, 2010 by oshron

[Aldandil]

You're welcome.

Hm, yeah in that case Menu-aa seems like a generic enough translation for Great Monument. That could leave either Menu or one of the words for "statue" for the smallest type of monument.

For the others, I really need the entire phrase that should be translated. Temple of the Gods and Temple of the King? Or Temple of a God?

Edited September 4, 2010 by Aldandil

[oshron]

those ones are meant for the other two monuments: "Monument to the Pharaoh" (or "of the Pharaoh", "of Pharaoh(s)", "of the King", or other variations of that depending on what each translation comes up with), and "Monument to the Gods" (or similar). however, ive already got a name for the Monument to the Gods, "Menu Ntere" (though i may swap out "Menu" for something else and use that for the wonder)

EDIT: went back and edited the monuments; now theyre "Shesep" instead of "Menu" or "Touwt", and the wonder is now called "Menu-aa"

also, i was thinking, do you think i should maybe give the skirmisher name to the slinger unit instead of the javelinist? i just cant help but think that the egyptians deserve a slinger more than they do a spear-thrower

Edited September 4, 2010 by oshron

[Aldandil]

those ones are meant for the other two monuments: "Monument to the Pharaoh" (or "of the Pharaoh", "of Pharaoh(s)", "of the King", or other variations of that depending on what each translation comes up with), and "Monument to the Gods" (or similar). however, ive already got a name for the Monument to the Gods, "Menu Ntere" (though i may swap out "Menu" for something else and use that for the wonder)

OK, now I get it. A temple to all the gods would be Hut-Netjeru, though I don't know whether or not they ever existed historically. For a Monument or Temple to the Pharaoh, Shepes-Nesu-Bity or Hut-aat-Nesu-Bity seem like the best options. Since Ntere is Coptic and Menu is Ancient Egyptian, they can't go together in a phrase.

also, i was thinking, do you think i should maybe give the skirmisher name to the slinger unit instead of the javelinist? i just cant help but think that the egyptians deserve a slinger more than they do a spear-thrower

Yes, that's a good idea. I couldn't find translations for sling, slinger, or stone-thrower, but I did find one for javelin. So the Slinger could be called "skirmisher" (Mega) and the Javelineer (if any) could be called "javelin-soldier" (Wau-Neseyut). I unfortunately don't know much about the New Kingdom (or any period) Egyptian military, so I can't advise you on which is more realistic if you only want to have one of the two.

A real linguist may also be able to provide more help, if there's anyone around who studies Egyptology. That Nouvelle dictionary doesn't necessarily have every known Egyptian word, so there's still hope for the Market and so forth.

Edited September 4, 2010 by Aldandil

[oshron]

thee market is gonna be a required building, so if all else fails, we can just bullshit our way through that with a coptic word (hey, missing one out of over twenty or so isnt too bad)

what would you suggest as the name for "Monument to the Gods"?

also, if you have any ideas for what the other two egyptian super units could be, id be glad to hear them. to remind you (since its been a while), the super unit setup for Godstorm is that every civilization gets two super units, one in the city phase that is availble to all players of that civilization, and then a second in the empire phase that is unique to each major god. at the moment, the all-egyptian super unit is Wau-Iqehu (formerly Mi-neb), a "siege" infantryman with an axe, and the only other one i have so far is ra's unique super unit, the Medjay (nubian military police that has a bow as his primary weapon but uses a khopesh at close range). other ideas for super units include historical assault ladders (this would technically be a ram, but it wouldnt be able to attack and would instead allow allied soldiers to climb a wall and jump down on the other side), anachronistic war elephants (the egyptians DID use elephants historically, but just not during the new kingdom), and fictional camel cavalry (nothing came up with any ancient egyptian military using camels in my research, but this isnt too much of a stretch of a unit since camels WERE used by other civilizations from that region, and they were already being used as beasts of burden so, again, new kingdom camelry isnt too much a stretch)

[Aldandil]

thee market is gonna be a required building, so if all else fails, we can just bullshit our way through that with a coptic word (hey, missing one out of over twenty or so isnt too bad)

Yes, that may be the solution. Unfortunately, finding decent Coptic dictionaries online... ugh. I don't know how to do that. I'm trying but so far I only get garbage instead of real words. If you find one you have to either download their font or find some kind of key for their symbol mapping. Which were you using before? It might have a key or font somewhere (and apparently every Coptic font is incompatible with every other Coptic font). There was one at http://www.coptic.org/language/EnglishCoptic.html that did, it was a huge pain to use, but it worked. Unfortunately their key and font downloader were apparently removed, rendering the entire site useless!

(Just for my own reference in case a key is found, the "Coptic" gobbledygook for market are "xosb" and "0nau." The fonts I downloaded don't do a thing for this. )

what would you suggest as the name for "Monument to the Gods"?

Hut-Netjeru

The other two major gods are Osiris and Set, right? Assault/seige ladders seems like the best of those three options, I guess. The military questions are really far out of my area of knowledge, though.

Have you considered turning one of the chariot units into a super unit? They seem more like they would be professional soldiers than citizen-soldiers to me.

Edited September 5, 2010 by Aldandil

[oshron]

Which were you using before? It might have a key or font somewhere (and apparently every Coptic font is incompatible with every other Coptic font). There was one at http://www.coptic.org/language/EnglishCoptic.html that did, it was a huge pain to use, but it worked. Unfortunately their key and font downloader were apparently removed, rendering the entire site useless!

well lets see first if i can find any words without bullshit letters in them. ill just find anything that could be applied from that site. the one i was using was of similar construction to that one (but with the coptic words on the left and their rough translations on the right). ill get a link to that one here

The other two major gods are Osiris and Set, right? Assault/seige ladders seems like the best of those three options, I guess. The military questions are really far out of my area of knowledge, though.

Have you considered turning one of the chariot units into a super unit? They seem more like they would be professional soldiers than citizen-soldiers to me.

yes, youre right on teh gods there. i had planned to give the assault ladder to set, but now im not too sure. a ladder may be too complex for teh game (i know its just a ladder, but there's nothing especially similar to it in the game itself for a base unit). maybe i should just give set the camel (since he's the god of the desert) and give osiris the elephant as filler (and maybe because of his association with pharaohs and royalty; in every other depiction, you always see the egyptian elephants labeled as "royal elephants"

chariots are a possibility, but i think id prefer to keep them as citizen-soldiers because they were the mainstay cavalry of the egyptian militaries; they didnt ride on the backs of their horses like they presumably did with camels. the elephant and camel would also be a good tip-of-the-hat to age of mythology (in that game, the egyptian civ also got elephants and camels, which were anachronistic but worked for the game). so, just in preparation, ancient egyptian words for elephant and camel would be appreciated

here's a link to the coptic lexicon i was using before: http://web.archive.org/web/20080110023750/...ticEnglish.html

i think its pretty much the same as the one you linked but just with a reversed orientation

[Aldandil]

Yes, the website had two forms of the lexicon. And although a few of the letters do make sense, several that look like regular letters (x, h, and c, for example) can't be trusted. Then there's the numbers and q and... argh. I should have just saved and kept a copy of that key while I had the chance, but I didn't know I would need it again. Maybe there's an archive of the old remenkimi site with the key on it...

So, camels and elephants. Elephant is Abu, camel is ... not on Nouvelle. So that leaves you with the useless "Coptic" "qamoul" for camel... better just call them Camel and Market for now.

Though "qamoul" might, might be Khamul. I can't be sure of that, though. It could also be Thamul or who knows what. I think a, m, l, e, and ou>u are reliable letters, but I can't remember.

EDIT: Ah! Way Back Machine to the rescue! The old key is here: http://web.archive.org/web/20050317230435/...enkimi/KTS.html. Using it is a huge pain, it requires cross-checking with the alphabet at http://www.omniglot.com/writing/coptic.htm. I'm getting to work on it now.

EDIT2: Victory! OK, here it is:

market = Khotjb or Thnau

camel = Khamul

For reference, here's a more usable key:

a = alpha = a

aa = a`

b = bêta = b

c = sêmma = z after nnê, s elsewhere

d = dalda = d

e = ei = e

ee = e`

ei = i when used as a vowel, y when used as a consonant

f = fai = ph or f

g = tjantjia = usually tj

h = hori = h

i = yôta = i when used as a vowel, y when used as a consonant

ii = i`

j = gamma = g

k = kappa = g after nnê, usually k elsewhere

l = lalda = l

m = mê = m

n = nnê = n

o = u/o = o

oo = o`

ou = u when used as a vowel, w when used as a consonant

ouou = u`

p = pi = p

q = khai = kh

r = rô = r

s = kjima = kj

t = tau = d after nnê, usually t elsewhere

u = he/ue = u (only after alpha, ei, or u/o)

w = ô/aw = ô

ww = ô`

x = khi = kh

y = psi = ps

z = zêta = z

0 = thêta = th

2 = shai = sh

3 = êta = ê

33 = ê`

4 = fai = f

5 = ti = ti or di

6 = soo = number 6, apparently

7 = ksi = ks (x)

` = jinkim = a syllable separator, apparently

+ = not even in the key!

Edited September 5, 2010 by Aldandil

[oshron]

Yes, the website had two forms of the lexicon. And although a few of the letters do make sense, several that look like regular letters (x, h, and c, for example) can't be trusted. Then there's the numbers and q and... argh. I should have just saved and kept a copy of that key while I had the chance, but I didn't know I would need it again. Maybe there's an archive of the old remenkimi site with the key on it...

So, camels and elephants. Elephant is Abu, camel is ... not on Nouvelle. So that leaves you with the useless "Coptic" "qamoul" for camel... better just call them Camel and Market for now.

Though "qamoul" might, might be Khamul. I can't be sure of that, though. It could also be Thamul or who knows what. I think a, m, l, e, and ou>u are reliable letters, but I can't remember.

EDIT: Ah! Way Back Machine to the rescue! The old key is here: http://web.archive.org/web/20050317230435/...enkimi/KTS.html. Using it is a huge pain, it requires cross-checking with the alphabet on omniglot. I'm getting to work on it now.

EDIT2: OK, here it is:

market = Shotjb or Thnau

camel = Khamul

khamul? you mean this guy?

lol, couldnt resist

thanks for those.

[Aldandil]

You're welcome.

Since Thnau has theta in it, that implies it was borrowed from some Greek word... don't know which, since Greek doesn't have Thn (unless the Coptic word is really Nau and Th is the article, the lexicon has some mistakes like that). Either way I do think Shotjb Khotjb would be the safer choice for the Market.

Edit: Oh ack, that should be Khotjb, not shotjb. My mistake! That unfortunately looks equally weird. Maybe both words are Bohairic, that dialect uses Theta and Khi.

And this time, I saved a (modified to be easily useable) copy of that key.

I still see nothing that can work for the Flagbearer, though.

Edited September 5, 2010 by Aldandil