About The Hellenic Factions

[Sophokles]

I love what you did to the concept of Hellas. It looks like someone finally realized that Macedon and the city-states don't belong in the same category.

There is still a problem, though: there is no representation of Epiros. I'm sure that somewhere in your history articles is something about King Pyrrhus. Since the game involves Romans inevitably fighting the Hellenes, it would make sense to differentiate between the southern city-states and Epiros.

Just a suggestion. I personally think that 2 factions is enough. It is just good to remember that not all of Hellenic glory can be divided into 2 regions.

yiasou!

[Mythos_Ruler]

I agree. And if we ever finish Part 1 of the game, then I have some plans for post-release content patches that would rectify this problem.

[MrEmjeR]

can someone explain me why this should be???

i don't know very much about Ελλάδα at the time of the Romans

my knowledge is limited to the time of the trojan, persian and poleponnesian wars. at that time Epiros was not much diffrent with the rest of the poli.

the where not of much importance in the first to major wars but in the poleponnesian war they just joined the athenian alliance expect some smaller cities who choose for sparta...

I love what you did to the concept of Hellas. It looks like someone finally realized that Macedon and the city-states don't belong in the same category.

hmmm i don't know how much you read about this game, but phillip and alexander are just part of the hellenes faction together with their palagnites and cavalry....

[Mythos_Ruler]

In the Hellenistic era, under Pyrrhus, Epiros became a major player in Italian and Greek politics. Pyrrhus battled the Romans, the Syracusans, Carthaginians, and Spartans. The guy was everywhere. Plus he had a pretty sweet helmet.

http://community.imaginefx.com/fxpose/john...4/original.aspx

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyrrhus_of_Epirus

Edited August 26, 2009 by Mythos_Ruler

[MrEmjeR]

k got it now, ty for the teaching

[Sophokles]

Just out of curiosity, how do the sub-factions work?

Is it like you choose if you want to be Celt/Briton or independent/Macedonian in the beginning of the game?

Or do have to reach a certain point in the game to choose?

[Mythos_Ruler]

When you reach the City Phase you will be given a choice.

[Sophokles]

Hey, now that we are on the topic, can you clarify how the phalanxes work?

Is it like you get enough of them and order them to form up? And will there be reduced mobility, strength against horses and camels, and weakened flanks?

And finally, are there swordsmen of some type? Like hypapists?

[Mythos_Ruler]

Phalanx, you are correct. The Hellenes get no swordsman (except for Ekdromoi who can switch to swords to kill support units).

[Sophokles]

I am the last person to talk about game balancing, but I think that a lack of general-purpose swordsmen makes the Hellenic army inflexible(which it was, of course).

I am just worried that a phalanx would be annihilated by fanatical Gauls because there is no effective rearguard for the Hellenes. Same thing goes for toxotes and peltasts.

Of course, you probably figured this out already. I am speaking hypothetically, since the game is in development.

Σπαρτανς!

[Mythos_Ruler]

Well, enemy swordsmen would get pwned by the Greek's Cretan Toxotes. If all a Greek player trains is hoplites, then they deserve to get killed.

[plumo]

When you chose 1 subfaction: will it look like the choice of minor gods in Age of mythology?

[Mythos_Ruler]

Essentially yes.

[Sophokles]

I find it odd that your putting phalanxes in a real time strategy game that already has a counter system. Normally, formations are a characteristic of RTT games without any "x beats y" system.

So are there any other tactics? (testudos, Cantabrian circles, wedges?)

Edited September 1, 2009 by Sophokles

[Elven Ranger]

Is there going to be troop experience when you can make your troops more powerful when they kill a enemy?

[Hannible of Qarthadastim]

hello, I am new on these forums, I just thought that I would humbly put forward my thoughts on Greek balance. from what I have studied, Macedonian phalanx was almost TOTALLY invulnerable to frontal attack by any unit except maybe elephants. even the roman Tripleex line, some of the best and most disciplined swords men ever, were not able to do anything to the phalanx until they either flanked it or somehow broke it. as long as it held, infantry and Calvary alike was slaughtered at the points of the phalanx. so is this implemented? and another question, do roman reforms happen? I mean, the Roman army changed ALLOT in the thousand years of history that this wonderful looking game is said to cover. do they go from the republican pseudo Greek military to the republican, then to the post marain, and finally to the roman army of the late empire? will auxilia be available? will the post Alexander successor states have their historical ability to recruit large contingents of natives? thanks for all you answers, I am looking forward to this!

Edited September 4, 2009 by Hannible of Qarthadastim

[Mythos_Ruler]

We are representing our factions in specific "slices" of time. So, the Romans use the Polybian reforms for their army (Triarii, Principes, Hastati). The Marian reforms we might add in as a patch later on (I have some very cool plans for that, but we need to get the game to version 1.0 before we start implementing that stuff). The Greek city states sub-faction is the 5th century Greeks, while the Macedonian sub-faction is the 4th century Macedonians. The Carthaginians are the 2nd Punic War Carthaginians, while the Celts and Iberians are from around 200BC - 100 BC. Persians are 5th century BC Persians.

And yeah, the Syntagma in our game will be nearly invulnerable from the front.

Edited September 4, 2009 by Mythos_Ruler

[Sophokles]

Are there going to be principes for the Romans? Or will the Elite Hastati take their role?

[Mythos_Ruler]

We had to divide the Principes and Hastati into different unit-types, because the game design dictated that we not have two citizen-soldiers in a faction of the same type (Infantry Spearman, Infantry Swordsman, etc.), so the Principes are Infantry Javelinists (throwing the pilum), and the Hastati are Swordsmen.

Elven Ranger asked about experience. Yes, all citizen-soldiers upgrade themselves based upon experience. You train units at the basic level, then the level-up to Advanced, then to Elite. Each level gives a different, more elite looking appearance.

[Sophokles]

Pardon my brother. He has not yet read the FAQ, forum, or comments. He's doing all of that now.

So anyway, how much strength is given to tactics and to the counter system? For example: A hoplite can take on an equite 1v1, but not when charging up a hill. Or how about fanatics destroying tirarii behind their line but not in front?

I can't wait to see the result. It looks like you guys had the insight that RTS+tactics=realistic combat.

[Belisarivs]

So, there will be something like Elite Hastati?

That would look weird IMHO.

What about Hastati being able to upgrade with experience to Principes and later to Triarii?

Principes and Triarii would be trainable, too, but would be more expensive.

Also, I wouldn't follow game dictating design. I don't see point in not having two units of same type. Romans did so. If you balance better unit with higher price, I think it is OK.

Personally, I's prefer to have Hastati as javelinmen if you think, that you can't have two swordsmen (but I see no reason why).

Technically, both, Hastati and Principes were swordsmen and javelinmen. But I think, that usually only Hastati had opportunity to throw their Pilla, because they could do so before lines clashed. Then throwing of Pillum was IMHO impossible as it pressure of battle there was no time/space to throw pillum as heavy fighting occurred.

[Sophokles]

I agree. Hastati used their pila more than the principes.

Speaking of pila, will there be friendly fire in the game? Cause in most RTS games, arrows and such cause damage even if they don't actually land on the target. For that reason, I hate it when the lightest, fastest cavalry get hit by catapults EVEN WHEN THEY CLEARLY OUTRUN THEM.

Of course, friendly fire or out-running artillery are characteristics of RTT and not RTS games. In real life, however, I am sure that quite a few unlucky velites were killed by impatient hastati.

Postscriptum: Are there even velites in the game? Because I can't imagine armored principes as skirmishers.

[Mythos_Ruler]

We made the Principes into the Pilum throwers, because as Infantry Javelinists they'd most likely be behind the Hastatii, the Hastatii acting as the meat shield.

[Sophokles]

I don't think it would safe for the hastati if the principes starting firing after the hastati were already engaged.

Of course, it all depends on the game mechanics. Do arrows have to actually hit to do damage? And for that matter, can allied units be injured too?

[Mythos_Ruler]

Right now we have "friendly fire," yeah. We have toyed with the idea of making it an option in the host setup screen.

But as far as Principes and Hastatii are concerned, we aren't going to change them. Sorry. Perhaps you can mod them when the game comes out.