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Aeros

WFG Retired
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Posts posted by Aeros

  2. Myspace profile for 0ad

    in General Discussion

    Posted

    Mike I've been thinking...

    Myspace for WFG and 0AD would be an amazing tool to circulate around the game dev circles or RTS myspace groups. We would get a large inflow of tallent and community that we are needing right now, I think that idea should be higher priority than we placed it previously :)

  4. 0 A.D. Video Preview Released

    in General Discussion

    Posted

    We really are getting that response alot, the one about "aw man my crazy 3 ghz machine with 2GB of memory and a 256K radeon won't run that game", Our art, albeit done good, does not use any graphics technology that hasn't been around since around 2001 or 2002. I mean this is OpenGL we are talking about not Direct X 10. No HDR, no normal mapping (we simulate it by the artist taking that aspect into consideration on the texture as he designs it rather than making a programming algorithm dynamically burn those in)

    I mean there are no crazy physics simulations and ragdoll response matrices.

    We can't tell you exactly what kind of performance 0 A.D. in its finished state will yeild because we can't exactly test that out to find out yet :P We are still developing it, the game world is a rapidly changing dynamic playground and the simplest way of putting it is that nothing is yet set in stone, let alone been set to begin with :)

    But, what you can hold as true is that we aren't in a competitive graphical market, we aren't trying to stuff as much of the cutting edge into the game to "win over sales", we have some great artists who have a very powerful idea of what they would like the game to express artistically and that is what we are emphasizing way more than using about 80% of your system resources to render things like bumpy rocks and extra smooth skin, sweat drops, physics dynamics on peoples hair etc. So the bottom line is we aren't trying to make you buy a new graphics to play the game, and infact that is exactly something we are aiming not to require at all, I mean its a video game. Its about fun :P Not watching sweat beads dribble down peoples faces after a crazy battle. Sure its realistic but this detail doesn't fit in this style of game where the emphasis is strategy rather than a dynamic visual experience.

    The screenshots were beefy, but I get a decent framerate, which can be 2 to 3 times higher once we optimize our shadows :P So you guys don't have much to worry about

  5. 0 A.D. Video Preview Released

    in General Discussion

    Posted · Edited by CheeZy

    As far as editors go, I honestly think AOMTT> AOK by a lot

    You guys realize that myself and a handful of other fanatics personally modded the crap out of that editor back in the day, and that people have begun to take for granted what the editor mods and hacks do for that game (basically the difference between usable and unusable) Otherwise stand-alone, the editor was so restricting it gave me a headache.

    But in terms of the 3D world and the possibilities that opened up, yes it was all very amazing stuff, very satisfying. Cinematics and lighting and the whole deal did alot and AoM saw some great things - but fundamentally the creative level can't compare with AoK because the interface was abysmal and time consuming to do simple things due to all the restrictions in place.

    Fry crying out loud you couldn't initially pitch the camera or zoom out in AOM's first editor, not to mention the trigger interface, the most important part - was horribly interfaced. The game had as many problems and setbacks as it had improvements. I threw in the towel when Age of Empires 3 came out, their editor was a perversion and was basically exactly like the AoM editor when it came out. It was even more primitive and annoyingly poor in design, putting more locks on the 3d world than you could do with 2D AoK.

  6. tree chopping.

    in General Discussion

    Posted

    Oh, ofcourse :) I wasn't being clever or giving you some wit by saying it like that, just ofcourse.. filling out some of the details. But yes correct, its one of the smaller things that is so easy to fix that its not a big deal, we did the best we can for the video without spending nights with no sleep looking for the right value to hit the balance we need. ;)

  7. tree chopping.

    in General Discussion

    Posted · Edited by CheeZy

    In short, I wish there was some way of showing how exactly the dynamics of a game have to convene in order to make something look convincing to the degree where it hides the mechanics behind it that make it work. But alas, all I can say is that adjusting the bounding radius of the unit so that it's animation syncs and appears close enough to the tree so that the axe appears to hit the tree and then sync an audio sample so you hear a "thunk" is one of the easier things to fix, considering at it's core the tree, the axe, and the thunk are just a countless mesh of trillions of zeros and ones condensing at the speed of light into patterns in microscopic webs of silicon, the inputs and outputs of which have to be perfectly and coherently defined, calculated, read, and understood by well over a couple hundred thousand lines of programming code, or else so much as one comma in the wrong place will make the whole thing illegible and grind to a hault faster than you can even blink, let alone say "wtf!"

    ... :)

    We would very much like it for trees to fall when they are chopped down and visibly appear to diminish as you extract wood from them but alas, there are more important things that consume our attention than that sort of detail. For whatever reason, the mechanics didn't sync on the first time, or perhaps the thickness of a tree trunk wasn't anticipated at the time when we were coding the mechanics of woodcutter's collision boundaries that tell the game how close that unit can get to another unit, such as for example a tree. But the good news is that There will be time later on to polish these details ;) If anything right now, the bounding circles of a soldier is a similar issue, but one that is a little harder to balance. How much space between units should we allow so as to find the right balance where combat is very close quartered, thick and dense, but you don't get clipping problems with units overlapping. We can't make them so small as to have a unit stand so close to another that his arm passes through the back of a horse, or completely through an enemy soldier's shield, yet if we put too much room between them we will miss the density of close quarter combat we are trying to portray, and probably end up with something even less realistic like units being so far apart that their swords won't reach the other unit when they attack (similar to the woodchoppers).

    But like I said, at its core its a simple solution, alot simpler than what it took to make it work in the first place. The equations and the math and the rules are all there, its just a matter of trial and error to find the value for the radius that works best.

  8. 0 A.D. Video Preview Released

    in General Discussion

    Posted · Edited by CheeZy

    Looks great.

    Can't wait to get back into designing some maps for a game.

    Now isn't that so true, its the exact same thing on this end too :) No game or editor out there really cuts it to the golden age AoK designers, The only editor I've been using since Age 3 came out [and dissapointed all the map designers] is Atlas, the name of our Map Editor.

  10. General Questions

    in General Discussion

    Posted

    Ah its been a while since we've gotten some good questions about the editor - I'll use this as an opportunity to offer you guys some more info.

    Firstly, welcome to our forums Impeached. 0AD is a project the concept of which originally started in 2001 as a mod for Age of Kings. The team expanded and raised its standards and dreams until eventually the production of a "from scratch" 3d game and engine began in early 2004. Currently the game is (at best estimate, though really these figures mean nothing in the long term) is at 45-48%, assuming that ~50% is when we can begin putting in the gameplay mechanics and slowly shift from doing technical work to game design work to begin making 0AD play the way we want...and assuming that 75% is a pre alpha, and 90% a closed beta...95% an open beta, and 100% version 0AD verison 1.0 [these figures are based on nothing, so don't take this as an official statement - each person on the team has a roughly different idea on our progress]

    We have a in-game video in the works which should be out soon, and the team has taken that as an excellent opportunity to impliment basic triggers and cinematics into the editor as well as work on numerous bugfixes to make the game more presentable. Its the first time in development that most of our resources are dedicated not to technical low-level coding and systems but rather to actually bugfixing and working on gameplay elements. Neat times :)

    As for the editor - this is a feature that right now exists exclusively for are barebones shoe-string needs. This means that most everything is not yet complete - however is extensively planned and documented and supported by our engine.

    -Will the scenario editor have fully customizable units (not just stats, like reload time, projectile graphic, etc.)?

    Being a hardcore scenario designer, and having a team that is 75% intact from the HG RTS community of hardcore gamers, modders, and designers we have been working with tools like this for years and have high hopes and standards for the kind of power and functionality we want to use. There are a plentiful quantity of very creative and groundbreaking ideas and concepts we would like Atlas to have - as Philip mentioned the terms Mod and Scenario for 0AD are blurred. You can think of a scenario as a small-scale mod who's source and data is derived from its higher parent mod. What this means is that a majority or in most situations, all of the data like textures, units, stats, scripts, being used for your scenario will be the ones from 0AD. But should you choose to create new units, or art, or stats or even gameplay you have the power to do so. This is done by letting our game treat every scenario as if it were a mod. Each time you load a scenario, if you have any custom data included with the scenario the game will use that data instead of the stock data it comes with.

    All custom data or files are packaged up within the scenario file so there are no issues with having to overwrite game data. Infact you should never have to overwrite anything in 0AD - this approach to modding we are seeking to phase out and trully give a modder complete power and support from the game engine.

    So to answer your question, yes you can do that as well as create your own entire RPG or game in your little scenario, borrowing as much as you'd like from the core 0AD game or any future game made on our engine.

    To reiterate, a scenario map is like a mod that is only applied to the scenario. A regular mod works exactly the same way just that it isn't limited to working on a scenario and can be stand-alone.

    -Will the scenario editor be simple (like the AoK format), or more complex (like AoM/AoE3)?

    This is hard to say, as with anything that uses new ideas it intially will be received with a little salt and frustration. We however plan to have a complete help library built right into the editor, with roll-over help if possible and a rich database of information you can retrieve right within the editor. In terms of layout - AoM and AoE3's editors have perhaps the worst UI and design I have ever encountered. In terms of layout 0AD is roughly closest to Age of Kings, though trully our editor is it's own. If perchance you remember the Editor mods created for Age of Mythology - myself and a person called Reyk were the ones pushing that front back in 2003-2004 - you can rest assured that 0AD's editor will make alot of sence and if you know the basics the learning curve will be short and sweet.

    Here is what we are aiming for: these are some concepts created in 2004 for our Atlas design document (70+ pages describing the features of the editor). This is the layout and design we are aiming for and already implimented though like I mentioned the editor is on shoe-strings mode right now and has only what is vital to current development.

    Trigger Tool Terrain Tool

    Object Tool

    Beaware that these are concepts of what we intend to do. I can also already say it won't like exactly like this, but the layout and mechanics are right on track.

    Will the scenario editor have some sort of location system like Starcraft (where you place locations in the editor and move them around how you want, then make things happen at them with triggers)? It would be nice.

    Absolutely. The design we have in mind is a coordinate system where you can place points on the map and do a connect the dots type thing to create a closed shape, defining the area. Additionally you can use the classic style of selecting tiles, or perhaps specifying a radius. None of this is currently implimented to design so I can't promise everything will work, though once again this is what we will try.

    Suggestions:

    -Custom AI's, sounds, etc. sendable with the scenario in multiplayer (I don't know if this is planned).

    All supported through our system mentioned above that treats a scenario as a mod - this as well bypasses sync problems associated with replacing files (this will NOT be allowed online to prevent cheating, replace files and you will mess the game up and it won't let you play online - it will be alot easier to simply make a mod and then manage which mods the game will use through a menu.) What I really didn't expect when we were planning Atlas is that the vast majority of new features that have not been done yet that people suggest - we've already planned them years ago, usually in much more detail and scope. ;) Content Designers, you will be in good hands - I again emphasize this team was started from people who did exactly this kind of thing for fun.

  11. No new year's present?

    in General Discussion

    Posted

    We're actually just fixing bugs at this point which at some point in development would have to be fixed anyway - just smoothing out some loose ends otherwise the video is 95% ready - we are just brainstorming if we are showing all we want to show and whether its presentable enough. Its actually quite a broad statement of how far the project has come - it just takes so many bugfixes and tweaks to get it to look smooth like it would if it was done :)

    So yeah, it shouldn't be significantly longer until you guys see it too

  14. Is it done yet?

    in General Discussion

    Posted · Edited by CheeZy

    Regarding the drama, I'd like to point out that 0 A.D. has never officially gone on a public press release. We have put up some humble snippets and the general gist of what we are doing to the public but never gone on an all out marketing campaign to attract fans that want to play a quality RTS game for free.

    Why? Because we don't actually have the game we are promising them yet.... you see... :) .... , it takes time to throw 500,000 lines of code together (and make it work!), as well as time to create an estimated 2,000 textures and 1,000 models for the game (more if we can muster it), time to compose hours of music and hundreds of sound effects, not to mention one of the hardest tasks in the world to manage this efficiently over the internet, type up 600 pages of design document with many thousands of more pages of discussion online, and then distribute all the tasks among members, work around their schedule - forget the meaning of a deadline (the laws of the 0 A.D. universe make deadlines an impossibility without working full time)

    All the people on this forum have picked up on 0AD from very discrete hearsay and "word of mouth" on the internet. We can bring in thousands of fans into these forums, the reason why we haven't yet is because there is no point in getting everyone hyped up just so we can tell them "well we're still working on it and it takes a long time because no one has ever done this before, not even us, so please wait until its done."

    We know this ;)

    All I'm trying to say is, is it that unreasonable what we're trying to accomplish? This isn't easy. Every single person who joined this team with the intent of finishing this project will agree that this is the hardest undertaking they have ever attempted, and are still attempting.

    Its not like we're just sitting around luring people with an elaborate hoax just so we can slander them with images of calculator programs on our forums. I believe this subject of debate is finished but I simply want to chip in saying that we never sought out a fan-base, that would be one of the worst moves in PR ever if we went public with a press release when we have 4 more years of development time to dish out. We know fully well that people will become disappointed for waiting so long, I don't blame you Achilles, infact this response was one of the most predictable from a devoted fan, if anything it can be seen as a compliment that we have managed (without doing anything but news updates) to gain an immense amount of respect from someone, to the point where they start to forget exactly who we are and why we are doing this. I understand what you mean fully, its frustrating, its annoying, its even seen as inconsiderate of us to not release an update for a month...it makes it seem like we just twiddle our thumbs and play minesweeper all day long because. Trust us, we know what our fans think more than you imagine. We're glad you are so interested and are waiting so long to play this game. But...

    Try to imagine how much we want to play it too. :)

    If you want to take a break from the forums by all means do so, this is a very quiet place either way, but it is after all available to our supporters who are here to help in whatever way they can, down to the simple yet vital action of giving feedback on progress and sharing their ideas with us. Believe it or not but in this way you take part of the development of the game too, there are many ideas from fans that we have seriously considered or planned to implement...yet at the same time, many ideas people give we've actually already thought of years ago and have elaborated on much more...this phenomonen is much more common and it always makes me smile knowing we really have thought this all through so well...

    When it comes time for playing....when 0ad gets closer to the door, you won't have any trouble at all hearing about it, don't worry about that! 6 months before we release and it starts looking like we're nearly there thats when we'll go full out letting everyone know about our game, where to get it, why its free, and just exactly what we were doing for 6 years, and how we did it (I want to write some literature after the game is done how we all managed to pull this off, I've been collected images of production since I joined, I've got 300 or so :-P).

    Now don't go saying you've been waiting 4 years for this game, thats not true. You've been minding your own business living your life day to day, playing a few video games, hanging out with friends, going to school, wasting time doing math homework, seeing movies occasionally, and so on. You don't actually sit on your computer connected in IRC, MSN, SVNs and forums with a group of people contributing 20-30 hours a week thinking that maybe if you work 2,000 to 3,000 more hours the game will be nearly complete. We are the ones who know there is no such thing as 0AD unless we maintain this discipline and work ethic. Now 15 to 30 hours is alot... in reality it can waver from 5 hours a week to up to 40 hours for some members - but I want to point out that this 15 to 30 hours is the equivalent of a part time job. A part time job to people who have full time jobs, full time school, and full time relationships.

    The only people who trully have been waiting this long for the game is us, on a daily basis we're reminded of how much is left to do, and better yet, how much we've already passed. We understand your dissapointment, I mean its downright outrageous that two dozen people are working daily for 3 years without any compensation to make a free game for you and they won't even tell you how long it'll take because they don't know... but I won't hesitate to tell you personally, [from me, not my association with WFG] that it wouldn't be a bad thing if you were abit more modest towards this team's efforts and vision :) Gaging from the personal responses from nearly half the development team I think it shows just how much we care to try to ease the mind of one understandably disgruntled fan, and might I say a notably enthusiastic one at that. Don't think for one second that this team doesn't know what you guys are feeling, everyone here watches and values the feedback you fans provide, and I already know you guys are well aware of that judging from our responses and discussions all done on very short notice. We know how much you anticipate the game, and if you've been here for more than 6 months we very likely know your opinions and ideas/expectations too.

    But when some weird feelings like this show up and someone doesn't have the same amount of respect for us, we just remind them that all we need is to understand eachother. We understand where the fans are comming from, but we ask our fans to understand where we're comming from too, I for one am just an 18 year old highschool student coming from a small suburban city in the mountains north of Los Angeles sitting in a little black chair facing my desk next to my bed, currently being pestered on the phone by my girlfriend to finish up what "work" I'm doing so I can talk to her and say goodnight at around 12:00AM this friday night, 2 hours after I came back from a 6 hour work day and an 8 hour school day

    ...To exclusively spend an hour to address you, Achilles

    You can't forget we're real people too, man ;)

    And with that I think this debate is concluded, if there are more issues kindly send a PM or try and catch one of us on MSN messenger.

    Magna Graecia

    in Screenshots

    Posted

    But as with the issue in real life, who would pay these taxes? Would they be happy to do so. Where will taxes be invested, should there be technologies like false scales to increase tax revenue, etc

    Hehe its actually not that bad of an idea but this is something thats bordering on feature creep and has no real strategic/insentive value other than giving the player a little extra gold for controlling a territory. If you do too much gold then this will be a cheap thing and enemy players won't have a fair chance at taking back territories, or if the gold is too little then it'll be pointless all together as it won't affect gameplay.

  22. How far has 0ad come?

    in General Discussion

    Posted · Edited by CheeZy

    Well, just to be devil's advocate - most of our donors and potential donors are people in our own team. Its like we pay money to make this free game for you B). I'm actually gonna drop about $100 soon, as soon as I open up a paypal.

    But no trust us, we all know exactly how you feel. :shrug: Don't worry guys

  24. Beta Developers Packet PLEASE!

    in General Discussion

    Posted

    If people are interested at this stage in modding for 0ad, we instead strongly urge these people to continue their practices and to get start expiramenting with 3d modelling software, and then to apply to join the team as an artist ;)

    It is not impossible to learn to do this art, I'm just about 18 years old and have done (or did :P ) a large majority of the terrains and natural art for the game, and when I joined at age 15 I had no art skills whatsoever besides some small-scale modding with Age of Mythology. All I had was the persistance and an unsane desire to see this game finished - I was definately a fan before I joined, being aware of the project since its 2001 AoK mod days.

    Interested modders would be much happier joining the game and contributing to it at this stage. Any people interested in making other mods - my estimate is the best time for that will be when we aproach beta and the gameplay and technical aspects of 0AD will start to be secured and finalized.

  25. Beta Developers Packet PLEASE!

    in General Discussion

    Posted

    I'm of the same opinion as HistoryGuy (you can see why we've had alot of debate now, hehe)

    The conclusion we settled on is that this is a good idea but its not a good investment of time. We have to take the time to strip down the engine and slap it back together in minimal form enough to render units other tidbits...which in all honesty is not going to be that impressive or powerful.

    Additioanlly people will then demand support for this tool and demand updates which will take more time away from the important development of the game and ultimately I think people will be happier with something more feature complete.

    Now thats not to say that a unit viewer or a tech demo for modders won't be released down the line ;) That in itself is a good idea, just not at this exact current time.

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