The Crooked Philosopher
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Posts posted by The Crooked Philosopher
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I have found something interesting when i read Kautilya Arthashastra: Book XI, "The Conduct of Corporations" Chapter I, Causes of Dissension: And Secret Punishment, first paragraph it is favorable to enlist the help from these corporations while second paragraph where it mentioned the corporation of warriors (Kshatthriyasreni) which consists of people of Kambhojas, Surashtra or Sourashtra and other ethnics from other regions of India which suggested Mauryan Empire employed these mercenaries as regulars soldiers. Historically, Kambhojas are a branch of Indo Iranian people and their superior horsemanship have made them among the trusted corporation warriors (Kshatthriyasreni) in Mauryan Empire. Several Hindu Epic from Vedic, Ramayana, Mahabharata and other sources suggested their existence earlier than Mauryan period. To view the history of Kambhojas, please visit: http://www.kambojsoc...entKambojas.asp
For more Mauryan India information, Please visit: http://www.sdstate.e.../Docs/index.cfm
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Wow, that would be wonderful.
Speaking about the Numidians, do you have a list of Numidian unit that will be present in the mini factions?
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Sorry, friend. If my words hurt your feeling.
I was wondering how did the Maccabee uprising could possibly defeat the Seleucids where they have the mightiest army in the known world unless they have undergone a high level of Hellenization in military training with of course a large number of Hellenic arms and equipment supplies. How did they gain such training if not the Seleucids drafted them for military service until they have a good understand on Seleucid tactics and organization but i cannot refute that the great efforts the Maccabees pay to dislodge the Seleucids from Israel.
Looking back to the earlier times before Maccabee uprising, when Seleucids are fighting against the Ptolemy Dynasty that raise my curiosity, how did the Seleucids defend their territory in Israel, Judah, Antioch and regions in Levant and Syria when they could hardly trust the Syrians, Babylonians and Anatolians to serve the Seleucid army? Who will if not the Jewish people?
Look, when Mythos Ruler mentioned the Arab auxiliary which give me a goosebumps, did they frequently use them or just because they have numerical strength in a single battle then it was considered as one of the standing army is hard to accept. At first i was thinking of thureophoros but since only Royal Stoa can produce them and the Royal Stoa is Editor-Only unit my hopes was shattered so i have to find who's the better candidate for skirmisher which i found that Seleucids are particularly weak on skirmisher until i stumble upon the Europa Barbarorum where they have a nice introduction about the unit and the reasons they recruit these unit.
Iudaioi Taxeis (Jewish Spearmen)
Description:
One of the oddities of certain Seleukidos policies produced the armed Ioudaios militia. By some twist of fate these intrepid men from Ioudaia and other places with large Iudaios populations were levied, trained extensively, and set as garrisons in various towns from Lydia to India. For the most part, isolated from their people, they served their Seleukidos lords with distinction. They were generally outfitted in the older Phrygian style helmets and given a spear and shield. They supplemented this with some leather armor made by their families, and went on their way. They form a fair amount of the Seleukidos garrison armies, and are generally reliable spearmen. They are worth far more than their training and expense to the state would credit them for.
Historically, the Iudaios garrison forces fought hard for the Seleukidos Empire in its losing battle throughout the east, both as Pantodapoi and as these slightly wealthier and much better trained soldiers. They formed the core of the Iudaios revolt later on in the period, but during the first hundred years they were reliable and trustworthy troops. More trustworthy than Persai and natives of Asia Minor, at least.
The description was odd because the looks of the soldier with two spare javelin suggested he was a skirmisher if not a medium skirmisher so i assume that he is a skirmisher.
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10,000 Arabs in the Daphne Parade, apparently, which is a larger contingent of light infantry than any other I've seen listed in all of the Seleucid battles I've read about. Though, I kind of like the idea of using the Kurds (Kardakes/Cardaces).
Why don't use Jews, there's some information that Jews served Lydia and India before they turn against their masters?
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Is it possible to trade with these mini factions since diplomatic stance has become possible why don't we implement such function into it?
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Some of these are available in the Internet, but you'll need a Sanskrit dictionary with English translation to confirm that it is accurate. I found an interesting article when was actively looking for Majumdar, B.K. (1955): The Military System in Ancient India instead i stumbled upon an article which have a good description on Ancient Indian Military but still i have to use Internet Sanskrit dictionary to confirm the terms use in the article is accurate and advance research that identify arms or armor that are existed during the Mauryan time frame or out of Mauryan time frame.
To view the article, please visit http://shodhganga.inflibnet.ac.in/bitstream/10603/1362/11/11_chapter%206.pdf because thats the first source i found. If you need to confirm whether these terms are accurate please visit http://spokensanskrit.de/.
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I have found some shield pattern dating as early as Alexander India campaign:
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In Kautilya Arthashastra, it is most ideal to have an army made up of kshatriya but in all cases however conscripts are needed for military campaign. If caste was imposed into Mauryan India in game play, it would caused untold frustration because there would be limit to create how many kshatriya and how many citizen levies.
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The purpose to start an Indian Glossary topic was to provide every user some useful knowledge about Ancient Indian term, this topic also welcome anyone who have more knowledge about Ancient India to share their knowledge about Ancient India especially Mauryan period. The topic begin with Ancient Indian Military where all members could have a look on it, if there's a mistake please point it out, thank you.
Rathadhyaska - officer of chariot
Samparayika - war chariot
Jaitharatha - triumphant chariot
Vainayika - military exercise wagon
Gajadhyaska - officer of elephants
Karmuka - bow made from palmyrah tree
Kodanda - bow made from bamboo
Druna - bow made from dam wood
Dhanus - bow made from bone or horn
Sakti - spear
Kunta - spear or lance or more precisely barbed dart, made from iron and has six edges
sattra - deception
kurpasa - cuirass or quilted jacket
kuthara - axe
Parasu - battle-axe related to the famous Parasurama
Asidhenu - small combat dagger with one cubit in length and three edges and usually for close combat
Lavitra - a crooked shaped sickle, sharp at the end and a big handle mostly use in moving and reaping while hurling it requires both hands to hurl it.
Prasa - lance made from bamboo with metallic spearhead
Gada - heavy iron rod with one hundred metal spikes at the top
Laguda - heavy staff with metallic fect, two cubit long
arrow - divided in several kinds venu, sara or zara, sataka, dandasara and naraca.
Pattisa - spear with keen edge made of copper or iron
Asi - sword
Khadga - sword of another variant
Kavaca - armor, shield, coat of mail or cuirass but mostly refer as armor and made from iron
Varman - armor made of cattle skin or elephant skin
Sirastrana - helmet
Kanthrana - neck guard
Kancuka - long protection jacket up to knee level
Varabana - long protection jacket up to the heels
Tanutrana - coat of mail for body protection
Uraschada - breast plate
Phalaka - shield made of wood
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My bad, I made an inaccurate statement. I'm well aware the ruling class was not Persian indeed, they were a nomadic people from the Mongolian steppes. But the people were the same which the Achamenids had ruled, and the Seleucid ones after them. Persian. The Sassanid was the first true Persian line of kings since the Achamenids (which were half-Mede if I recall correctly).
Never mind, everyone makes mistakes including me myself once believe that Parthians are Persians too.
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Inventory should remain rare because this may encourage player to venture into the unknown instead of burrowing in a fixed location and i do not agree with inventory shop like Frozen Throne where player can buy inventory.
About the mini factions, i wonder if they could have diplomatic stance where they may decide to be player's ally, enemy or remain neutral?
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Perhaps we could open a special topic that gives every forum user some knowledge about Mauryan India like Mythos Ruler open a new topic about arms and armor terminology.
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Mongol Glossary lists for military units:
Divisions:
Arbat - troop of ten
Zuut (Jigaut) - troop of one hundred
Myanggat - troop of one thousand
Tümen - troop of ten thousand
Ikhe Tsereg - army
Tsereg - warrior
Morit Tsereg - cavalry
Yavgan Tsereg - footman
Shadar Tsereg - imperial troops
Heshigten (not just Keshik) - imperial bodyguard
Torguud - the rest of heshigten
Mangudai - means "of the tribe Mangud"
Ranks:
Nöhör/Nukher - noyon's personal guard
Noyon - noble (someone who has people/troops that he "owns")
Taish - second in command after the Khan (not Khagan) after corrupted into taij - a title similar to marquis
Bahadur - general or distinguished warrior,elite or a veteran
Armaments:
Ild - sword
Selem - sable
Num - bow
Sum - arrow
Jad - lance
Duulga - helmet
Bambai - shield
Huyag - armor
Saadag - cuirass
Zev (Jebe) - the tip of an arrow
Agt - cavalry horses
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Totally agree.
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Speaking of inventory, i think this a good idea too.
But is there a limit for a hero to have a certain amount of items like Warcraft III? Is it possible for soldiers and civilians to have a spare inventory like Frozen Throne?
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Parthians are not Persians, they are pretenders and that's why the Sassanid Persians was able to overthrow their rule and forcing them to submit to Sassanid rule.
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Is it possible for Part 2 to implement attrition?
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Is it possible for 0 AD to add new feature for example attrition where player may suffer attrition when they venture too far into enemy territory and logistic wagon could provide player immunity from attrition like Rise of Nations?
The elements and purpose of attrition and logistics:
Key feature of attrition: lost of health and stamina in a very slow rate, gradually losing combat effectiveness and mobility.
Attrition effects on all unit: effects on all units including spearmen, swordsmen, archer, javelinmen, slinger, cavalry spearmen, cavalry swordsmen, cavalry javelinist, cavalry archer, champion infantry, champion cavalry, champion archer, heroes, siege weapon, warships, civilian ships, priest, merchant, civilian, editor-only unit and structures.
The effects and outcome: depend on what unit, for example civilian, citizen soldier especially heavy infantry suffer more while some raider unit like Mounted Devotio may suffer less or virtually immune from attrition.
Nature of attrition: depend on the factions and the map itself, for example Celtic player may found their troops fight less effectively in Punjabi even in their own territory due to the nature of the map, unlike Rise of Nations where attrition was based on national borders and attrition tech related research.
Exploiting attrition and logistics: know your advantage and disadvantage and use it to gain victory.
Countermeasures: methods of counter attrition.
Balancing:horse archer based civilization suffers little from attrition thus compensating their disadvantage of lacking siege weapons which encourage early attack on other factions, as for civilizations like Celts and Iberians raiding become possible and lucrative, while Romans, Persians and Hellenic factions may find that war become more expensive because they need to keep a strong logistic forces in order to wage a full scale war.
The reason i post this topic was because 0 AD like most of the RTS game lacks logistics and the purpose of the territory borders served only for building structure and expansion but still lack another vital feature that gives national border a more significant function. Another reason is that most RTS cares only how to destroy an enemy while ignoring that logistics was a key factor to win a war which most of them ended up fighting a war in numerical superiority while ignoring other vital elements in the game.
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Sounds good, it seems some faction may utilize their advantage on ambush and guerrilla warfare like the Iberians.
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Perhaps we could implement aggressive adjustment rate like Civilization III where they could be friendly or hostile based on these adjustment. While we could add some Warcraft III elements into custom both battle map and campaign map, but will this have side effects the hero concept in the game because there's no level up concept in 0 AD and some heroes are not warrior.
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Creating and spawning hostile savagers from nowhere and attacking players seems to be plausible for me, but i think it should have a different element when implementing such idea, for example they could have settlement which they could respawn from the settlement while player could eliminate the threat by conquering the settlement. As player conquer the settlement, units that belongs to these neutral civilization may become available for player to recruit and civilians from the neutral civilization become available for player to command. But the question is, is it fit for custom battle or in campaign mode?
In my opinion, it would be good to grant these NPC (Non-Playable-Civilization) the ability to build up its own forces and economy instead of spawning from nowhere like Civilization III where savagers spawn from a barbarian encampment. But for me such ability should reserved for campaign mode, other ideas like neutral facilities guarded by these so-called mini factions could be a good idea for custom battles but is it possible to adjust the savager spawning rate like Dune 2000 where player could adjust the sand worm spawning rate?
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Parthian Empire includes many sub kingdoms which includes Suren of the Indo-Parthian, Kingdom of Persis (Later known as Sassanid Dynasty) and Armenia. While other minor kingdoms which are less known includes Elymais, Characene, Atropatene, Adiabene and Kingdom of Media which gain their independence from the Seleucids but only to be annexed by the Parthians after several decades later.
The map Parthia and its sub-kingdoms:
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I could introduce some of the books for the team since we know little or nothing about Mauryan naval and maritime history:
1. Kautilya Arthashastra
2. A maritime history of India by K. Sridharan
Since i have none of these books, i hope someone would contribute the books if they could or find it in the internet.
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I am a RTS fan, so i would agree that it should have the elements of RTS instead of city building element in the game.
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Logistics and attrition warfare
in General Discussion
Posted
I think it would be fine for custom or skirmish map to have logistics instead of scenario only unit.