Ephestion

Nothing wrong with using other peoples technology but you also need to contribute something of interest otherwise its mediocre. Hannibal was certainly interesting but if an Egyptian civ was made they would have almost identical units to Carthage. Ptolemy, Cleopatra or Hannibal?

Wow, i want to play a thriving trade empire. Aside Hannibal it wasn't even worth mentioning. The Keltoi were probably more of an issue or the Sythians in the east. The Carthaginian Empire: will have the strongest navy in the game; the fiercest contendors on the high seas. They were also masters of naval trade, extending their trade routes even beyond the pillars of Hercules and circumnavigating Africa. They deployed towered War Elephants on the battlefield to fearsome effect, and had defensive walls so strong, they were never breached. Pfffft The war elephants were left behind by the shrinking Ptolemaic rule. The boats were purchased off the Greeks, They sucked at naval warfare, the fortresses and walls they learned from Crete and the Greek Fortresses. And they sucked right upto the end when the Romans made a big hoopla about beating them. Hannibal was the only person worth mentioning. Also Iberia ? wtf? As for the entire game selection.....it sucks. All you guys did was put Rome in the middle and then pick and choose which civs lost to them. Here is a better list: Ethiopians Egypt Persia Mongolia Greece Kelts Rome There are asians, blacks, mediteraneans, africans and Germanics. That way all the world is covered. Personally i would have prefered playing the Hellenistic states post Alexander since they cover every ethnicity on the planet. Indians (Bactria), Parthians, Selucids etc

Yes but the point is that all semitic languages didn't have specific letters for the vowels other than the methods already mentioned to denote them. There were no Semitic language records for the Phoenicians. Yet some people claim that this is Old Hebrew is Phoenician: Gezer Phoenician?

So then, the rest is upto you to investigate if your interested. Otherwise accept there are two different theories, the Greeks don't believe that there was a Phoenician Empire but rather a strong community present in those cities. Most of the real artifacts and history have been altered by the simple fact Islamic scientists, historians and archaeologists present their own views. Much like Egypt hiding any evidence of Jews in the BC era. So to not many Arabs or Muslims publish anything to indicate Rome or Greeks were present and not just as you say influential but leaders of those cities. Note earlier in this thread that the Encyclopaedia Britannica published a short list of Greek colonies in the Mediterranean you may view it and take note that the Greek colonies were well established prior to 700BC. It clearly shows Carthage as one of them.

Answer these questions... 1. When did the Phoenicians first appear? (there is no evidence but they are speculated to have existed around 1300BC) 2. When are the earliest artifacts depicting a writing system in Greece found? Crete 2000-1500BC, Linear A,B, Phaistos disk etc. Therefore? How could a writing system be introduced by Phoenicians when the Greeks had already been using various localised dialectual forms? 3. Are there any relations between the theoretical Phoenician alphabet (of which no real substantiated record exists) the basis of the Greek language or Alphabet? The letter A in Greek = A and only A. In Semitic script it has different meanings depending where it is tonated it can be an A, E or I (H). The same can be said for several other letters. The Greek has Vowels the Semitic languages don't. The Greek alphabet was the first Alphabet system the others were writing systems but without complete syntax and grammar. Even Christ said I am the Alpha and Omega not the Alef and whatever. 3. Where are Mycaenian and Minion colonies thought to have existed? Almost identical to those of some Phoenician sites Egypt, Carthage, Sicily, Malta. (Note Kardus or Cardos's story by DIODORUS SICULUS 1BC. Plato and numerous others agree that the alphabet was given to man by God (there was no inventor of writing systems other than by God). Diodorus explains that Carthage was settled by those from Crete.) He adds a different light to the story of Carthage as he was a Sicilian Greek and knew that region of the Mediterranean much better than most other mainland historians. (I think its in Book 5..only fragments remain) 4. Are there records of semitic script used in the mediteranean? No. 5. Any Greek scripts in the Mediterranean? Yes. There are finds of tablets using a primitive alphabetical script dated 1800BC in Cyprus. Did such scripts have any similarity to the that used by Greeks? Yes. Therefore: So semitic existence in the Mediterranean world is proved by what means? Neo-propaganda? http://books.google.com.au/books?id=vXFW36...0script&f=false 6. When is Hellenistic (Pre-Greek State/Dorians, Ionians, Minoans etc) colonisation thought to have ended? 3000BC by Ionians, Mycaenians, Minoans, Dorians and others living in the Cyclades and the Hellenic peninsula. 7. Are all the names Sidon, Biblos, Tyre, Carthage derived from the Hellenic language? Yes. Implying the same names were used by locals not just by Greeks which the ROmans had a tendancy of renaming things.....In this case the Romans kept the same names as the Greeks. Any record of these cities in any language uses the Greek form for their names. Why? Because they either were or became Hellenistic cities. Hence when Romans took over they adopted that heritage. Was Carthage under Greek control? Yes under the Ptolemaic rule. Note this: The Ptolemies controlled both Sidon (The so called center of Phoenicia), Then Tyre the replacement capital of the Phoenicians. The regions interchanged between between Selucid and Ptolemaic rule for hundreds of years. But also keep in mind Carthage was considered a backwater compared to SIdon or Tyre. Ptolemaic rule over the center of Phoencia granted it control over Carthage. There was no need for a direct assault on Carthage. Sicily and Rome on the otherhand had no political control over the city of Carthage and needed to subdue it by force... You only use army when political leaverage fails. What are the majority of artifacts found in Carthage? Ancient Greek and Egyptian.....Why? Ptolemy the Greek Egyptian. NOt as some say the Carthagians mimiced everyone.

Proves nothing. Like i said the Phoenicians were only made reference to by a few historians the most reliable was Heroditus and from him all he says is that the Greek Alphabet was derived from the Φοιινικον. Now what he said and to whom the term Finikon applies is debated but most people believe that the Finikes he talks about were a Hellenic tribe.

When you start talking about Phoenicians you may as well start talking about the days the Lizardmen ruled the earth. Phoenicia as a semitic entity is a theory not a fact. There is enough written by Heroditus and others historians to suggest the Phoenicians to whom they referred to are not the same as to whom we refer to today. Much like trying to come to grips with southern Italy being filled with Greeks before there was a Rome, and who were the Romans if all their leaders and their army spoke Greek initially? None of the colonies attributed to Phoenicians are real history or archaeology they are just one of many theories. And in Greece they are not at all considered in any texts other than in context with the original ancient scripts (or their interpretation of them). To Greek scholars there is no Phoenicia or some mystical Semitic people that had colonies and yet left no remains of their existence. The Greek alphabet for example is said in Western literature (today) to derive from Phoenician. That part is true, but the original phoenicians were a Hellenic people living Between Syria and Anatolia, some suggest they started in Cyprus. To prove this is the fact that Greek artifacts are prolific in every point considered "Phoenician". Also the Greek language scripts found along the Danube and in various other places outdate any so called Phoenician scripts. If anything the Phoenicians were Greek settlements that lost their Hellenic identity due to influx from various other semitic tribes this atleast would explain why so much Greek artifiacts dating pre 1500BC are found at every so called "Phoenician" colony. (Carthage 700-800BC) After Alexander Carthage remained part of Ptolomies possessions but had a resident king/administrator. Etymology: Greek “Carchedon” and Latin “Carthago” > Phoinician/Arabic “Qart Hadasht ( = New City)” Note that Greeks named another city the "New City" Neapolis/Rome.

Look up Greek Phoenician battles circa 1200-900bc Carthage was taken by Greeks and that is why they had so many colonies in North Africa surrounding Carthage. http://www.angelfire.com/folk/ephestion/history.htm Encyclopaedia Britannica used to have an image showing some of the Greek colonies in that period. The phoenicians were essentially wiped out during their war with the Greeks. Also not all archaeology of the former Phoenician sites indicate a mixing of Greek and other artifacts, the Greek stuff they think was a result of co-existence between Greeks and Phoenicians. But it is more likely as most people come to realise they became Hellenised.

Italoi is a modern term Italiotes was the term used for the Greek colonists on the Italian Peninsula. Graikos means commoner, the Greeks were the usual people you found in Southern Italy ie Grecos. Most of the Italian tribes mentioned by the Greek Historians were Greek colonists. The Roman Historians emphasised on the Latin tribes that invaded the region during the Latin League. Anything written during Julius Caesar's time and Nero's were Latin biased views because they were the only two emperors of Rome that didn't speak Greek. All of the Five Good Emperors and everyone else conducted affairs in council and elsewhere using Greek. The Memoirs of Marcus Aurelius one of the best five is written in ancient Greek indicating it was his first language and favoured or strongest language. But at the same time he uses terms like Athenian and Macedonians when referring to other Greeks. The term ΕΛΛΗΝΕΣ Ελληνες, Ellhnes - Ellines was a term used by Heroditos and numerous others 800BC onwards. The origin of the word is speculative in Greek mythology Ellhnas was one of the descendants of Zeus. Accoriding to the theogony each tribe of Greeks is a descendant of the Gods. It is also possible the term came into popularity following the battle of Troy, "We are the ones who fought for Hellen". About the Persians: The Histories tell us that the Persians resorted to using Thematic armies instead of standing armies. They recruited soldiers from their cities and villages to face the Greeks at the Battle of Thermopolae. Heroditus makes this clear when he describes the caravans and messengers sent forward to alarm the cities that they should provide rations, cavalry, men. The Greeks always trained and maintained a standing army and reluctantly recruited civilians but often had a support unit made of servants. The servants usually were few in number by proportion to the bulk of the army. Chariots and Phalanxes were the most prestigious classes of soldiers. The kings or village leaders normally had chariots, but this changed as they approached 340BC and they became more ceremonial symbols of glory than anything practical. The Persians kept their chariots and focused heavily on mounted soldiers which made them very expensive and hard to maintain over long campaigns. Simply riding from Persia to the borders of Greece was a massive feat in itself. Feeding, watering and restocking dying horses added greatly to the logistics needed. And in the end the Persians relied on cities near the Greeks providing horses and rations. I can't remember exactly but the standing army of the Persians never exceeded 100k. But it was their ability to pickup troops on the march that inflated this to massive amounts ~600k?

Like a coca cola logo on spartan shields?

Parthia, Bactria are all Hellenic territories. The people were hellenised but still ruled by a Hellenic lineage. Like Egypt and the Ptolemies so to were these other regions that were former Persia.

Carthage at 0AD was still a Greek colony.

The Mithridates lineage was Greek. Pontus was a Greek colony called the Helles Pont, translated to mean "the Greek Part". It is a common myth that he was Persian, his lineage was entirely from Greek Ionian stock.

When Age of Mythology came out i commented about how the gaming community will revert back to arcade slot machines. You pay to play. And soon enough games like WOW and a whole host of others did exactly that. You no longer buy a game you buy gaming time on a server. And we all saw what happened to the Age of Kings and Age of Empires servers...dead. I think Piracy from a gamers perspective is not altogether bad because it boosts the number of people online. But from a commercial point of view things are needed to prevent it from effecting profits. Instead of trying to sell a product, WOW and other games sell a service. This way they control who their customer is and how much of that service they use. Paying for a service seems to be the way that companies have dealt with piracy. But I feel this depression in the economy has affected everyone and gaming companies are doing everything they can to milk people for money. 10 years ago people had allot more spare cash for games than they do now days, the economy has just forced all these changes to happen.

If i wanted to make some music for the different civs how should they be made? mp3 format, midi, other? And what types of music will be needed: themes for when users Attack, Idle, Peril (being attacked) etc?

I was wondering wouldn't it be easier to port all the graphics to the spring engine which is also open source. You would then need to customise that engine to run 0AD.

Auto healing would muck up the fights because units would just start to leave when their HP is down. Instead have a command button that selects all injured units say under 30% and then you bring them manually to the healing spot.

I demand a redraw, and continue redrawing until my name comes up. Congrats to the winners.

Sorry I made 500 pseudonyms to increase my chances of winning. ......But imagine how many would and could do this. (I didn't do it due to honesty)

My Name Is Ephestion My Age is Over 18. I want to sign up for the chance to win a subscription.

I don't like how the priests all look like modern Cardinals of the vatican. I woul like the monks in AOK to look like the original and authentic monks for that time. Anyone good at modding interested in making Orthodox Monks?

I was never a fan of the Romans, the Romaioi were more fun. Rome cam to power easily with few major resistances. The Hellenic Empire (of Macedonia), the Greek Colonisation period of the Roman Peninsula, Byzantines all had a special gift about what they did and how they did it. I would be interested to know if the pottery changed because the Hellenistic period of ROman ended or if it was Germanic or Local technology coming forward. I see it as either the Greeks left the ROman Peninsula after the attrocities against them and moved East. The other theory would be that Germans occupied the peninsula and as we know the Celts ruled the most southern point of Reighium. The other theory would be that the locals were left to craft without the Hellenic masters known to be the principle traders of fabricated goods and pottery of that period. Many Roman structures have Greek lettering on them indicating they were from Greek Workshops. So If the Greek workshops moved ie to Byzantium then Rome would have to rely on local tradesmen. What do you think happened?

Load of Croc if you ask me. There is no reason why there cant be a 0AD OS and another 0AD Commercial version different names of course). Afterall people sell OS software like Linux even MySQL or others. Infact most of the OS stuff if seen as viable on a commercial market acts as a carrot for thse with such asirations. Most people go solo head first and end up making allot of progress that is later given away. Look at all those modues for Linux, MySQL, PHP, APACHE, even RUneSword (my current OS project), someone made heaps of changes with teh view of using the software for personal gains. But in the end like i said they usually contribute their efforts when they realise you need a large team. No reason why the game cant be OS where you provide whatever you want to be OS version and keep the rest for whatever personal project or reason. SO anyway, get a move on please we want to see a downloadable game. Now that AOE3 is released there is a void in the market fr such games as many will follow suit and go with non Archaic/100AD type games.

Well yes Diocletian didnt rule from the West his part of the Tetrarchy was Anatolia and Greece. His investments were being made in the ancient Greek city of Byzantium. He and his administration were located in Eastern ROman lands. His exat place of rule is questionable however it is certain it was not old Rome. He spent most of his time crossing the empire than he did positioned in any place. However, Nicodemia was his favorite site as it enabled him to visit and keep tabs of progress in Byzantium as teh city was being built up through his orders. This is why Constantine later moved teh capitol because when he arrived to the position he saw easily the unsurpassed wealth that had been injected into Byzantium the city. DIocles visited old ROme several times and even travelled as far as Spain on many ocassions.

I knew about this project years ago when it first started. I never really participated some were saying it was a way to distract people and get them involved in a project that wont lead anywhere. Personally i never had an interest in making a game........only because i knew what was involved. What you need for this game are 3 3D DirectX programmers, 6 General Programmers, 3 Internet Tech Programmers, 2 Assembly and Low Level Engineers, 12 Graphic Artists, 4 Documentors, 6 Sales persons (Community and News, Promotions etc), 1 or 2 Historians, 3 Musicians and 4 Vocalists (Speak overs, commentaries, civ voices) and the list goes on. So wouldnt your better option be to make it OS and have it exposed so everyone can contribute and not only that you actually train your next generation of Programmers and COntributors. Think of it this way, if 4 yrs ago you made it OS you would have say your initial 20 interested people with some 200-300 people wishing they could contribute and 1000+ freeloaders who just downloaded the stuff and used it. Now at the end of a 4 yr cycle people with interest say of teh 200-300 some 20-30 people would know the program very well and what it needed. Today you would have a team of over 40 people and who were dedicated to an end solution. Instead you have cycles where you have 20 people active then all of a sudden montsh or even years go by with only 5 or 6 people being active (if that). So, given that the game is appealing and there are people interested and with the skills it just makes allot more sense to have an Open Source approach. Afterall nothing done in this game has not already been done in other games. The only difference is that it is Free, Continually improving and has much more input and thought put into it than a commercial standard game. Good Luck!