I freely admit that I had to purposely stay away from this site until now - I was so offended by the response to my query - but I am offended for reasons that some of you will likely never fully understand. Can I help out? Not sure - I have Photoshop and Illustrator - have written lots of rms scripts for AOM including a Land Nomad rms that I am very proud of - and am in the middle of launching a new company with my girlfriend - but in the end - I realize that I am just a fan - so other then donating money, which to me seems problematic as the disclaimer you guys make is pretty much that there is no schedule or no real commitment in terms of said donator getting something to play anytime soon - there is nothing I can do. Which is why in the end - the "I'm done" response seems to be the only one really. Other people probably have done the same thing - they just don't feel a need to post about it - I'm doing this I guess to maybe try to help you understand that the pace of this project - regardless of what the circumstances are - is now in my opinion your biggest flaw. I'm not telling you that to be mean or to vent and flame on my way out the door - but to hopefully on some small level point out that the project is potentially eroding its fan base. I am certainly passionate about what 0AD represents because in my opinion this game has come to represent the last hope for this genre - other attempts at this time period are either failed games - very old - or not true RTS games - certainly Age of Mythology and The War Chiefs give us something close - but I think many people feel like Greece and Rome have never really been properly done - so 0AD represents that - and that is really the only source of my passion - in terms of the RTS expereince ltself - ESO and BFME give me plenty of satisfaction - my real and genuine beef here with you guys is that there does seem to be an incredible amount of complancency here - both in attitude and in dealing with your fans. As I have pointed out - the fake screen shot joke in my opinion was incredibly arrogant - and I think while obviuosly a joke - a very real and telling cliche on the situation here with 0AD and the people that want to play your game. That single event has opened my eyes to what is really happening here...like you say - you have zero obligation to your fans - this is a project for the sake of a project - not for the end result. The zero obligation sentiment - as repeated several times and seems to be a consitent theme in a lot of your responses - I wonder if any of you realize who incredibly arrogant that comes across. In terms of donating money to the project - I can tell you, that sentiment is a serious roadblock to anyone considering it. I think some of the rhetoric in Vaevictis_Music's response to me is frankly a rather graphic and at times almost juvenille display of just more arrogance - all of you seem to get offended by people who want to actually play this game - and as pointed out before - the queries on status have come like once a year or so - you are hardly being pestered - yet you universally react that same way to an innocent request. It's almost like you have a blind spot relative to the way basic human nature works - that blind spot is really evident in the claim that nothing was said to warrent my reaction of being turned off - telling a fan they are here for all the wrong reasons is about as harsh as it gets gentlemen - that's basic alienation 101. You can decide all you want the time isn't a factor and you have zero obligation, not even in your own head to keep fans happy - and a lot of people I guess will jump on that band wagon and agree - but to call me arrogant and a flamer for simply pointing out that you've generated excitement about the game and people who want to play have been waiting for years - that's ridiculous. Whether you come to terms with this or not - the longer the project goes - the more people will just say "meh - tired of waiting." That's not arrogance or flaming - it's just a description human nature. Some people will wait around 10 years for something I guess - but you know - most people probably won't - they will go away and come back, or, just write the whole thing off. It is what it is - but I can't really be all that apologetic here in this final post - I think there is a very valid and resonable response to all that you guys say - in that this thing is taking a very, very, long time - by anyone's standard. I think some people people really wanted to see something tangible - and the fact that this surprises you is just a jaw dropper to me - in terms of being patient - everyone has been more then patient - you've exhasted that request - you can't really say that to us anymore. That was the line you used in 2005 to placate people - now it's two years later. That's just a human reality. I think it is a bit ridiculous to state that all this content and this message board is here just for people who like to develop games - and I certainly think I and other people saw the content as sneak peaks into a playable game that we want to play. If your response in 2007 after all this time is basically 'shut up and wait' - I think more then just me will need to shelve this thing in terms of rooting for you and encouraging you and look to quite frankly early 2009 for any real fruit and to I guess put the pom poms back on and cheer - but the response from you guys at this point is not only "don't tell us how long its been" - but now "how dare you even ask" - someone in your team I have to believe will understand that this is a really harsh and certainly passive aggressive stance for you to take. A better response would be some verbage on what the current challenges are - and a rough date as to when the public will see a playble alpha - to basically sneer at people who have been around for years is just a bad way to treat people. It just is. You know, I'm only one person - but one person becomes two, becomes three, and before long people will just say - "hey forget it". As you say - you are not a commercial entity - and you make no commitments - so I guess there is nothing left to do other then leave you guys alone and check back in a couple of years - its a bit ridiculous to me - and here you will insert comments about how unreasonable that is - but you really need to remove yourself from what you are doing and understand that - guess what - it isn't. Not from member number 100 and something who joined in 2003. I'm sorry that offends you - but if in fact a publisher approached you and you said no - I have to openly wonder about that decision now - especially since there seems to be an adversion to making this public domain so at least someone like me could host a subversion server and even hack away at it and provide some kind of acceleration in a small way - add up all those would be contributors and you would get a game that is playable a lot sooner. But basically the message has turned into "this is a proprietary project with no set schedule and if your a "fan" that wants to see the game - your here for the wrong reason." So in the end - I guess that is true - I was here for the wrong reason - I wanted to play. I wonder if any of you actually get how ridiculous it is to tell people 5 years and running into the project that only fans of the development process need be here...I hope at least one of you can see a small sliver of sunlight of truth to the fact that in the end - its the players of 0AD that will truly make it a great game (or not).