Achilles_Knee

They are saying they don't want to attract fans at this point - only people that want to work on the game. Can't say I agree with that approach - but I believe that is the intent. Looks like Ancient Wars: Sparta is even a bigger disappointment then Rise and Fall was - so unless this rumor about an AOE1 remake is actually true (which it isn't) - amazingly - 0 AD is now in the cat bird seat. But I've learned long ago that in 0AD time - 3 years means 10...(cue the moderator to lock the thread)

I freely admit that I had to purposely stay away from this site until now - I was so offended by the response to my query - but I am offended for reasons that some of you will likely never fully understand. Can I help out? Not sure - I have Photoshop and Illustrator - have written lots of rms scripts for AOM including a Land Nomad rms that I am very proud of - and am in the middle of launching a new company with my girlfriend - but in the end - I realize that I am just a fan - so other then donating money, which to me seems problematic as the disclaimer you guys make is pretty much that there is no schedule or no real commitment in terms of said donator getting something to play anytime soon - there is nothing I can do. Which is why in the end - the "I'm done" response seems to be the only one really. Other people probably have done the same thing - they just don't feel a need to post about it - I'm doing this I guess to maybe try to help you understand that the pace of this project - regardless of what the circumstances are - is now in my opinion your biggest flaw. I'm not telling you that to be mean or to vent and flame on my way out the door - but to hopefully on some small level point out that the project is potentially eroding its fan base. I am certainly passionate about what 0AD represents because in my opinion this game has come to represent the last hope for this genre - other attempts at this time period are either failed games - very old - or not true RTS games - certainly Age of Mythology and The War Chiefs give us something close - but I think many people feel like Greece and Rome have never really been properly done - so 0AD represents that - and that is really the only source of my passion - in terms of the RTS expereince ltself - ESO and BFME give me plenty of satisfaction - my real and genuine beef here with you guys is that there does seem to be an incredible amount of complancency here - both in attitude and in dealing with your fans. As I have pointed out - the fake screen shot joke in my opinion was incredibly arrogant - and I think while obviuosly a joke - a very real and telling cliche on the situation here with 0AD and the people that want to play your game. That single event has opened my eyes to what is really happening here...like you say - you have zero obligation to your fans - this is a project for the sake of a project - not for the end result. The zero obligation sentiment - as repeated several times and seems to be a consitent theme in a lot of your responses - I wonder if any of you realize who incredibly arrogant that comes across. In terms of donating money to the project - I can tell you, that sentiment is a serious roadblock to anyone considering it. I think some of the rhetoric in Vaevictis_Music's response to me is frankly a rather graphic and at times almost juvenille display of just more arrogance - all of you seem to get offended by people who want to actually play this game - and as pointed out before - the queries on status have come like once a year or so - you are hardly being pestered - yet you universally react that same way to an innocent request. It's almost like you have a blind spot relative to the way basic human nature works - that blind spot is really evident in the claim that nothing was said to warrent my reaction of being turned off - telling a fan they are here for all the wrong reasons is about as harsh as it gets gentlemen - that's basic alienation 101. You can decide all you want the time isn't a factor and you have zero obligation, not even in your own head to keep fans happy - and a lot of people I guess will jump on that band wagon and agree - but to call me arrogant and a flamer for simply pointing out that you've generated excitement about the game and people who want to play have been waiting for years - that's ridiculous. Whether you come to terms with this or not - the longer the project goes - the more people will just say "meh - tired of waiting." That's not arrogance or flaming - it's just a description human nature. Some people will wait around 10 years for something I guess - but you know - most people probably won't - they will go away and come back, or, just write the whole thing off. It is what it is - but I can't really be all that apologetic here in this final post - I think there is a very valid and resonable response to all that you guys say - in that this thing is taking a very, very, long time - by anyone's standard. I think some people people really wanted to see something tangible - and the fact that this surprises you is just a jaw dropper to me - in terms of being patient - everyone has been more then patient - you've exhasted that request - you can't really say that to us anymore. That was the line you used in 2005 to placate people - now it's two years later. That's just a human reality. I think it is a bit ridiculous to state that all this content and this message board is here just for people who like to develop games - and I certainly think I and other people saw the content as sneak peaks into a playable game that we want to play. If your response in 2007 after all this time is basically 'shut up and wait' - I think more then just me will need to shelve this thing in terms of rooting for you and encouraging you and look to quite frankly early 2009 for any real fruit and to I guess put the pom poms back on and cheer - but the response from you guys at this point is not only "don't tell us how long its been" - but now "how dare you even ask" - someone in your team I have to believe will understand that this is a really harsh and certainly passive aggressive stance for you to take. A better response would be some verbage on what the current challenges are - and a rough date as to when the public will see a playble alpha - to basically sneer at people who have been around for years is just a bad way to treat people. It just is. You know, I'm only one person - but one person becomes two, becomes three, and before long people will just say - "hey forget it". As you say - you are not a commercial entity - and you make no commitments - so I guess there is nothing left to do other then leave you guys alone and check back in a couple of years - its a bit ridiculous to me - and here you will insert comments about how unreasonable that is - but you really need to remove yourself from what you are doing and understand that - guess what - it isn't. Not from member number 100 and something who joined in 2003. I'm sorry that offends you - but if in fact a publisher approached you and you said no - I have to openly wonder about that decision now - especially since there seems to be an adversion to making this public domain so at least someone like me could host a subversion server and even hack away at it and provide some kind of acceleration in a small way - add up all those would be contributors and you would get a game that is playable a lot sooner. But basically the message has turned into "this is a proprietary project with no set schedule and if your a "fan" that wants to see the game - your here for the wrong reason." So in the end - I guess that is true - I was here for the wrong reason - I wanted to play. I wonder if any of you actually get how ridiculous it is to tell people 5 years and running into the project that only fans of the development process need be here...I hope at least one of you can see a small sliver of sunlight of truth to the fact that in the end - its the players of 0AD that will truly make it a great game (or not).

Actually - the thing I recently saw on this forum - and by all means correct me if I am seeing this situation incorrectly - was a rather innocent statement about how the fans have not seen anything in a while - followed up by someone on the team taking an image of calc.exe and photoshoping it - intimating that we will be getting something to chew on soon - not sure if the re-write statement was a joke or not...but after thinking about it for a few days I realized that it was directed at those of us who have been patiently waiting and ask for status once every year or so - and I really do think that was some kind of direct slap in the face...if that image really is something for 0AD then by all means correct me and I'll change my view and retract my statement. But seeing as I doubt that this was serious - yeah - I (and others I would imagine) are a little bit offended by that. These guys are easily offended to be honest by very simple and innocent questions about the status of the game - the fans, which I was until very recently one of them - have been very sparse with the questions over the years on terms of how things are going and when are we going to see something in terms of a gameplay video or something other then a screen shot - this thread for example was started in July of 2005. Seems to me anyone that asks a simple question about status gets thier head ripped off with a how-dare-you statement or some kind of over-the-top comment about how your not a gamedev shop or how unreasonable I must be to want to understand when this thing is going to bear fruit and how I must be sitting around with my life revolving around 0AD. We ask these question ONCE A YEAR. Seriously - if you think this is my problem or that asking about the game on that kind of a schedule is a problem - and understand this is coming from a 42 year old man - YOU are the problem. Frankly - a link to wikipedia and a statement about how my life must revolve around the game for simply asking about status is ridiculous - along with the statement that I am stupid for the way I am reacting to being patronized for asking a simple question. oh - and suddenly this is a place for people into game development and not the fans of the game - what a crock of you-know-what - basically that is a poltie way of telling me to go you-know-what off. I'm done. All I ever get for asking simple questions about what we can expect as a fan around here is flamed. If that does something to morale maybe that is a good thing - because right now I'm feeling pretty put off by my what - 4 posts max a year?

Wow. That is a really impressive way of turning off a fan in a permanant way. -1 0 AD fan. Good luck.

Once again - I simply have to ask - should we stop waiting? I personally have gone back to playing Age of Mythology and I also play AOEIII Warchiefs - AOM is suprisingly easy to get a ladder game and AOEIII is getting plenty of play. Can you help some of us put into perspective the 0AD project in terms of just the raw ability to play super competitive games online? 2008? I think it's time to give you guys a dose of reality here - according to the fact this project is 6 years old - we hear "rumors" of something happening - but that has been going on since rumor was mid summer 2006... Don't you think your fans deserve a clear and candid statement on this game and it's future?

I find the sense of humor being displayed by the 0AD team in this thread pretty darn cruel... 4 years!! It's been 4 years we have waited!!

game play video please...

Hey, I'll pay for the game - probably like 4 copies - should you decide to charge money for it - heck I'll upgrade my FIOS to business class FIOS just to host a multiplayer server if it comes to that... There is always Open Sourcing the game too - but I understand if you don't want to lose your proprietary engine to open sourcing....

Well not to continue to pummel the proverbial dead horse - But I think there are lots of people that are not you know - 3D artists, scripters, etc. that have a desire to see this thing happen - want to help out as many ways as possible in the interest of starting to see this thing come to life - I've come very close to donating money on many occasions - but I guess without the sense of urgancy or any kind of early game play vid or any kind of 'marketing' to gain inertia - understand this is coming from a 42 year man from the IT/Game Hosting/Large Scale Game Testing world (as a fan not in any official capacity) - I don't really see enough 'spark' to justify it. The concept of the game is killer - and at one point I actually thought that Rise and Fall would be the next big thing - and it bombed - so now I have hopes for this game...but maybe I am just in love with the concept more then anything. I think your fans all have good intentions - we maybe just feel like this project is dragging on and on - which as you say is OK for you...maybe not so OK for potential donors? (runs away and ducks) ROTWK just shipped so there is always that until next summer...

Is it safe to say the project timeline has slipped then? I know I irk people for pointing this out, but some of us are going on 4 years of patience here... Summer '07 maybe?

ummm.... Congratulations? Seems like anyone that sort of asks about when will we see the game takes it on the chin for doing so...I mean for God's sake - the background page says the game was born in 2001 - people are now down to asking meekly and shyly how it is going every 6 months to a year now... I mean - your audience/fans are RTS players, I don't know how kindler and gentler a group like us can get, but geesh, excuse me for asking yet again - guess I'll try back in the spring.

Wow. I think it's really too bad that no one but you guys has seen this, even in video form... You guys sort of position this as a better thing/project/game then what the traditional game developers do, yet there isn't even an E3 like preview video or anything for us to chew on... I guess we just sort of sit back and wave our pom poms and wait - Give me a ZERO!! Give me an A! Give me a D!! What's that spell!! meh. At least what you said about the sandbox state is SOME kind of news!! Thanks! (seriously)

So maybe you can help us set our expectations here - no offense, but it seems like pretty much every response to the innocent "hey, how is it going, when will we see something?" from your team is: It will come out when it comes out...or vagueness, or whatever... I suppose the reaction in some of us to that will be forgotten once something actually does happen, but do you feel like asking these questions after 3+ years of announcing your project is rude and or annoying? I've noticed that people now seem to have to walk on egg shells when asking these questions, do you see the fact that some people would like to hear some real tangible status after all this time? I guess it would be good to know if the game is still years away from being seen, in any incarnation...

OK, so 6 months has gone by, and as I mentioned - wanted to check back in. Are we going to see anything tangible out of 0AD this year, next year, 2008? Have you thought about getting out a small little applet that has a unit that can be rotated and viewed or anything?