"false" civilizations

[oshron]

hey

one of the ideas i came up with while making designs for my mythology mod idea is the concept of "false" civilizations, that meaning civilizations that don't really have enough going for them to be independent civilizations or that are outright fictional but could still be useful for scenario design. basically, when a certain technology (lets say, "Dinosauria") is enabled for a civilization in the scenario editor, all of the units and buildings of that civiilization will remain functionally the same, but all of their appearances will be changed. for the example with "dinosauria", lets suppose it was applied to the hellenes. therefore, you get units like "Dinosaur Spearman" and "Dinosaur Catapult" and all of their buildings have a primitive, jurassic feel to them, though they are still greeks and have all the technologies and whatnot that they do. it works most easily with humanoid creatures, so you could alternatively have one thats just generic "Savages" that turns everyone for a certain civilization into generic, old-movie-style caveman-savages while still staying as a civilization that your soldiers could encounter

any opinions? if i was unclear on something, please say so

[SMST]

Well ... perhaps not for dinosaurs.

But other than that, I could see such aesthetical replacement. Could be helpful if one wants a scenario with Macedonians (visual replacement of Greeks), Samnites (Romans), Germanics/Dacians/Thracians (Celts?), Numidians (Carthaginians), Indians/Scythians (Persians) and such.

The question is if the WFG team is willing to do the art. (which would, as I understand your idea, oshron, the only thing that would be needed)

[Aldandil]

Actually, for pure comedy playing the game with humanoid dinosaurs vs. bad-movie "cavemen" could be hilarious.

I don't know what "primitive jurassic" technology would look like though... there was no technology in the Jurassic.

I don't know how well it would work to just replace one real civilization with another real one, though, because to be accurate the units would actually have to change. I could see this, though for folks who want to play a bizarre fantasy version of the game with satyrs vs. wolf men, or dinosaurs vs. cave men.

[SMST]

The Greeks could be turned to Macedonians easily enough.

Hoplites -> Pezhetairos

Thracian Peltast -> Agranian Peltast

Cretan Archer -> same

Hippeus -> Prodromos (might change to Spear Cavalry)

Same goes for Republican Romans -> Samnites. Maybe it would be not 100% accurate, but i think we can reach 90% at least ... it is for scenario purposes after all. I don't think it should be implemented in skirmish or multipayer.

[Aldandil]

If it could be done with 90% accuracy for Etruscans and Sikels (using a Greek base?) then that would enable a Syracuse scenario as a tutorial.

[SMST]

If it could be done with 90% accuracy for Etruscans and Sikels (using a Greek base?) then that would enable a Syracuse scenario as a tutorial.

That is very true. Another thing that would be great.

Although lately, I am leaning towards a "Sack of Rome" - tutorial. To have the Celts in somewhere.

[oshron]

one of the ideas with false factions is that they could be used for any civilization, and not just one that they are closely related to, so while the etruscans would be INTENDED to use greeks, they could go for whatever civilization. used in conjunction with this would be editor-only super units to make a civilization more unique. for example, (and im using NO research for this) suppose there was a pictish/scottish false faction and you apply it to the celts. instead of having the celtic unique units, changes set up in the editor by the player make it so that they, instead, get a "Woad Raider"-like unit like in AOK. this could also potentially be used to simulate civilizations at later points in history, perhaps for an alternative historical perspective so you could have the same civilizations but in a present-day setting, so, say, a roman horseman could be replaced by a modernized roman centurion on a motorcycle, and a roman ballista becomes replaced by a tank, like that. it can also go for early-modern, so some ranged infantryman unit could be replaced by a man wielding a primitive firearm

so, for false factions, the idea is more that every unit and building is programmed to be changed for that civilization even though the civilization theyre inspired by or are meant to complement may or may not have a unit like that. in this way, even if its a bit historically inaccurate, theres options for every civilization: want to play as australian aboriginals but like all the traits of the romans? no problem! like that.

[SMST]

Hm, I would like it better, if every civilisation had some alternatives, like the ones I mentioned. That way, you could make related civs out of the cultural background of said civilisation.

[oshron]

right. the idea is that there's a few false factions to be applied for each civilization even though they can be used on any civilization

[SMST]

I am not sure, if understand that completely ... You mean that the fake-civilisation is modelled to one specific faction, but CAN be applied to any other?

[oshron]

pretty much. ill try to give an example based on my mythology mod:

for the mythology mod, its planned that there are four to six false factions for each civilization, but those can be given to any civilization. suppose, for instance, that you wanted to play as werewolves, which are a slavic false faction, but really like the greek civilization. instead of having to play as slavic werewolves, you could instead play as greek werewolves, where all of your regular units are werewolves and your buildings have a wolfish theme to them, but all of your unique mythological units, technologies, and god powers are still greek, so youd see werewolf infantry fighting alongside cyclopes, for instance. alternatively, you could have another human false fact, say, the atlanteans (which are intended for the greeks) and instead make it so that they go over the egyptians so that, while your civilization LOOKS greco-roman, the gods that they worship are egyptian

i hope that cleared things up