post-0 AD idea: mythology

[oshron]

thanks for that correction; its been changed accordingly

by now, we actually have almost everything that we need for the egyptians. here's what we're still missing though:

Civilization Bonuses: i decided to add this feature recently for all civilizations. these are some traits that are applied to a culture no matter which major god they have. at the moment, there's only one idea: technology bonuses, based on the library of alexandria, but im as yet unsure of what benefits could be included based on this. it would likely have something to do with research rates because of the huge amounts of knowledge the library held

Team Bonus: some benefit that comes up for the egyptians and their allies once they make an alliance with another player

Traits for Osiris: benefits that Osiris provides. the basis itself is down already (bonuses for agriculture and the Pharaoh), but the benefits arent decided upon yet

Osiris' God Power: im pretty sure we came up with an idea for this before, but i cant remember what it is.

Traits, Bonus, and Technology for Ra: any ideas would be welcome. remember: Ra was the god of the sun, rebirth, and renewal and traveled through the sky and underworld in a boat

Traits for Set: no ideas here, ill have to look further into Set

garbs, helmets, and shields for all of their units. their garrison and population costs, functions, and possible specials and histories will be easy enough to come up with, but their appearance is the more important thing after their names (which we've already established)

oh, and perhaps a word for "royal" would be good so that its "Royal Elephant" instead of just "Elephant" (besides, having it as just "Abu" makes me think of the monkey from aladdin it would be nice to differntiate their elephant further)

[Aldandil]

I had made some suggestions for various traits of the Egyptian gods, some pages back I guess.

There's not an adjective for royal coming up, but there are two that might work for you:

Shepses "noble, august, well - esteemed, rich"

Shepsy or Shepesy "noble, august (of gods), splendid (of buildings), valuable (of plants, minerals), costly"

So that would be Abu-shepses or Abu-shepsy or Abu-shepesy in my lame attempt at Old Kingdom grammar.

[oshron]

since the egyptians are virtually complete as a civilization, its probably about time we moved on to another one. we should probably go on to either the norse, greeks, celts, or mesopotamians since they are of higher priority (as the first civs for the mod), but i also move that we put the greeks on lower priority since their civilization in itself will be much easier to design because of a wealth of available information and because they are already similar to 0ad's hellenes; why mess with a good design?

so which do you think we should work on next? mesopotamian, norse, or celtic?

[Aldandil]

It's up to you, I have no opinion. This is your project, I'm just following along and/or lending a hand.

[Mythos_Ruler]

What factions have been decided upon? Perhaps the OP should be updated to reflect the latest decisions and other important info.

Another thing that would help jump start this would be to try and find an artist to make a few neat models. Maybe a Minotaur and a Gryffon or something. It would bring more interest to the project. It is a trivial matter to export to Collada (the mesh must be all triangles) and into the game (just make a quick n' dirty actor) for a screenshot or two. Put them next to a few Hoplites to show some scale and what direction you're thinking of heading visually. This will show that you are serious about following through on your plans and ideas. Modding is all about follow-through. Good ideas are a dime a dozen. Good follow-through is exceedingly rare.

Edited September 6, 2010 by Mythos_Ruler

[oshron]

What factions have been decided upon? Perhaps the OP should be updated to reflect the latest decisions and other important info.

Another thing that would help jump start this would be to try and find an artist to make a few neat models. Maybe a Minotaur and a Gryffon or something. It would bring more interest to the project. It is a trivial matter to export to Collada (the mesh must be all triangles) and into the game (just make a quick n' dirty actor) for a screenshot or two. Put them next to a few Hoplites to show some scale and what direction you're thinking of heading visually. This will show that you are serious about following through on your plans and ideas. Modding is all about follow-through. Good ideas are a dime a dozen. Good follow-through is exceedingly rare.

yeah, maybe i oughta do that. not right now, though; im about to go on a walk

models would be good, but i unfortunately have no modding expertise and none of the tools to do so. my strength is in writing, and i was originally, to be perfectly honest, making the designs in the hopes that they would be complete once 0ad is complete and that this would be picked up as the next project. trying to make some models myself wouldnt be too bad an idea, though. even if they end up looking like something from a nintendo 64, itll still be a huge improvement over anything that i had in the past. which is nothing.

ive been working on the aztecs a bit more, and what ive basically done is give some new names to some of the buildings and renamed a couple of their units (the archer and slinger), though the rest of their infantry remain named after their respetive weapons. i DID decide to make their "cavalry" unit an eagle warrior, and that means i need a new city phase super unit for them. ive been considering giving them a generic mayan holcan kind of as a mercenary unit, though im not at all sure on the historicity of this.

i also updated their pantheon a bit:

MAJOR GODS: Quetzalcoatl, Chalchiuhtlicue, Mictlantecuhtli (i decided that this god of death and the underworld was more fitting as the "evil" god that Tezcatlipoca was)

TOWN PHASE GODS: Chicomecoatl, Ehecatl, Mayahuel

CITY PHASE GODS: Cihuacoatl, Nanauatzin (demoted from legend phase), Xolotl

EMPIRE PHASE GODS: Huehueteotl (new addition), Huitzilopochtli (new addition), Mixcoatl

LEGEND PHASE GODS: Coatlicue, Tezcatlipoca (demoted from major god), Tlaloc (promoted from city or empire phase; i cant remember which)

ive unfortunately lost all the information i had on their techs, myth units, and god powers, but i gave a god power to tlaloc, a "natural disaster" power: Hail (i also changed it a while ago so that the egyptian Sekhmet doesnt have hail anymore and instead has "Acid Rain", which is supposed to be like a combination of the two interpretations of one of the Plagues of Egypt, which was variably either hail or fire from the sky

Edited September 6, 2010 by oshron

[Aldandil]

I don't know whether or not the Aztecs used mercenaries in their armies, somebody would need to research it. But if they did use mercenaries, they weren't necessarily (or even likely to be) Maya. The Maya (forming several ethnic groups) and imperial Aztecs (calling themselves the Mexica) are the famous ethnicities of Mexico (at least among English-speakers, I guess), but there are many other ethnic groups (forming many political nations) who still existed in the highlands and surrounding regions at the same time as the Aztec/Mexica: Acolhua (allies of the Aztec Empire), Tepaneca (allies and former overlords of the Aztec Empire), the Tarascan Empire (enemy of the Aztec Empire), Tlaxcalans (enemies of the Aztec Empire), Olmeca-Xicalanca (not the same as the earlier Olmecs), Chalca, Cuitlahuaca, Huasteca, Huexotzinca, Malinalca, Matlazinca, Mixteca, Otomi, Teochichimeca, Teotenangans, Tetelans, Tlahuica, Toltecs, Totonaca, Xochimilca, Zapoteca, northern "barbarians," etc.

If I read right, tribute paid to the Aztec by conquered regions included men who had to serve the imperial military. Which ethnic groups had to provide these, and whether they were organized into what would be the same units (with the same equipment and fighting techniques) or used their native equipment, I don't know. The conquered Tetela apparently received what you could call "military aid" against the Tlaxcalans, but so far I don't see any mention of actual mercenaries.

Here's an interesting tidbit: the pochteca merchants of the Aztec empire also served the emperor as scouts, diplomats, spies, and even as soldiers in search of new places to conquer, in addition to their economic role as traders.

Edited September 7, 2010 by Aldandil

[oshron]

thats interesting. perhaps that could be their city phase super unit and double as both a merchant and a soldier, and they dont get a regular merchant unit (both the fortress and market would become available in the same phase)

[Aldandil]

Hm, aren't markets and merchants too essential to gameplay to remove the mundane ones from earlier phases? They could be really weak and slow by comparison to other civs' merchants, of course: no beasts of burden meant they were slower and had less room for cargo, at least when travelling on land.

[oshron]

well im not so much removing the merchant from the aztec civilization as i am simply making it so that its trained at the fortress. i listed it as "Super Merchant" and made its special that it doubles as an infantry swordsman (wielding an obsidian knife for defense) and has greater speed and line of sight. consequently, though, and because its just a single man, the pochteca carries only half as much as a regular merchant unit. dont worry too much about balance issues in this case; the aztecs still get their merchant at the same time as other civilizations. they just need to have a fortress in order to get them.

[oshron]

DPFAR:

hey, what do you all think should be some of the favor generation methods for the other civilizations? im trying to make each civ have a unique generation method, but if necessary there'll be some overlap. here's what's down so far:

Egyptians: build Monuments

Celts: druids plant Sacred Trees and units pray around them

Mesopotamians: (ideas include having buildings generate favor)

Greeks: units pray at the Temple

Norse: please the gods by fighting

Cro-Magnons: (ideas include a combination of sacrifice and dance)

Chinese:

Aztecs: please the gods with sacrifices

Japanese: (ideas include building special shrines and possibly praying at them)

Hindus:

Hittites:

Romans: (ideas include possibly "buying" favor through a special market-like interface at teh Temple, meant to be like offerings)

Christians: generate Favor by units existing

Semites:

Persians:

Mandinka: (ideas include christian-like methods; remember that the mandinka here represent islam)

Slavs:

Polynesians:

Na-Dene: dance (the Na-Dene are still just an idea for a native american civ; i wont formally add them until a 20th civ idea is decided upon as well)

Edited September 8, 2010 by oshron

[Mythos_Ruler]

To be honest, I think you should cut the number of civs to about 10:

Greeks

Egyptians

Norse

Mesoamericans (Aztecs, Mayans, etc.)

Japanese

Hindus

Chinese

Romans

Celts

Mesopotamians (Babylonians, Assyrians, etc.)

[oshron]

well theyd be coming out with 5 civs to a release (except for the last one, which is slated for just 3)

[Mythos_Ruler]

The thing is each release then should be themed in some way. Throwing cro-magnons in with the Chinese doesnt make any sense to me.

[Aldandil]

OK, the Aztecs and Norse are good ideas, but how shall they be differentiated? Historically, the Aztec soldiers tried to take prisoners instead of killing people on the battlefield, and so did the people they fought against. This was a strategic disaster when they fought against the Spanish who merely wanted to kill them at once. How can it be implemented in an RTS? Generating favor by taking prisoners is exactly what the Aztecs should do, but practically speaking they need to either sacrifice victims on the spot (which would be the same as killing them by other means) or they need to automatically take prisoner any unit they would otherwise kill, add the prisoner to the tally of "spoils" generated by sacking (which will be a regular feature of 0 A.D. IIRC) and then have the prisoners handwavingly transported to the temples along with the spoils. Such abstractions are to be expected in an RTS, though it will be necessary to program it in specifically so the corpses disappear and aren't reanimation targets (for Einherjar, Akhu/Mummies, and the like) or fodder for carrion-eating units (if Godstorm has any).

Then Aztec favor could be generated by some equation that uses two variables: number of enemy units taken prisoner (which should be almost all enemy units "killed" in battle) and number of Aztec temples. Realistically, although the Aztecs sacrificed shockingly huge numbers of human prisoners, they also shed their own blood with needles and cactus spines and then burned the resulting bloodstained bits of paper. Is there any way to include this autosacrifice, or is that too much detail for an RTS?

The Norse, by contrast, could generate favor by fielding units into battle, whether or not the units kill any enemies or even survive the battle, and without needing temples. Then again I've heard that the Danish bog mummies are the remains of human sacrifices, too...

Building monuments and offering sacrifices seem like the major ways that some Mediterranean civilizations sought the favor of their gods. What precisely was offered to deities differed, but I think at the level of RTS abstractions it would boil down to resources, whether produced by the player or taken as spoils. Praying at those monuments and attending religious services doesn't seem to have been a major part of Greek, Roman, or Egyptian religion (but I'm not an expert), although there were festivals which could involve (for example) singing, dancing, athletics, and theatre (Greek) or processions and parades (all three). Priests also enacted rituals at temples, for example in Egyptian religion, for the benefit of the deities rather than congregations of observers, though Egyptian religion also had public festivals. Then of course there were the Greek and later Roman mysteries, in which congregations did who knows what behind closed doors.

In the Greek case this might mean that instead of getting around a temple and praying, the Greek units generate favor by singing, dancing, having an athletic contest ("praying" with different graphics and sounds), by using their Theatron, or by sacrificing resources (animals, vegetable produce, armor and weapons captured in war, etc.).

I don't think Christian and Muslim units should get favor just by existing. They should need to go to church services, participate in sacraments, and/or pray at churches/mosques.

And all religions welcomed and/or demanded financial contributions -- from the government (the mainstay of theocratic religions until the modern secular states arose, and the funding behind all those mega-temples and monumental cathedrals) and from individuals (taxes, fees, tithes, offerings, donations, eminent domain, etc.). In game terms, the Muslim pillar of charity to the poor would be a similar effect, except perhaps without the added benefit of helping fund new religious buildings.

Unfortunately, it might not be possible to give each civilization unique methods, and that's especially true the more civs you have.

Edited September 8, 2010 by Aldandil

[Mythos_Ruler]

IMHO, (for Aztecs) just delete a unit within the Temple's aura = favor generated.

Edited September 8, 2010 by Mythos_Ruler

[oshron]

OK, the Aztecs and Norse are good ideas, but how shall they be differentiated? Historically, the Aztec soldiers tried to take prisoners instead of killing people on the battlefield, and so did the people they fought against. This was a strategic disaster when they fought against the Spanish who merely wanted to kill them at once. How can it be implemented in an RTS? Generating favor by taking prisoners is exactly what the Aztecs should do, but practically speaking they need to either sacrifice victims on the spot (which would be the same as killing them by other means) or they need to automatically take prisoner any unit they would otherwise kill, add the prisoner to the tally of "spoils" generated by sacking (which will be a regular feature of 0 A.D. IIRC) and then have the prisoners handwavingly transported to the temples along with the spoils. Such abstractions are to be expected in an RTS, though it will be necessary to program it in specifically so the corpses disappear and aren't reanimation targets (for Einherjar, Akhu/Mummies, and the like) or fodder for carrion-eating units (if Godstorm has any).

the norse generate favor by fighting, so whenever their soldiers enter battle, they start generating favor. theres also a much slower generation method where heroes (jarls) and super units (berserker, jomsviking, throwing-axeman, etc) all generate favor simply by existing, though this is at a VERY slow rate so you shouldnt rely on it. the main strength of the norse is in their mortal units since they cant generate favor as easily as, say, the greeks or egyptians. the aztecs get theirs through sacrifice by sending their own to a temple, garrisoning them inside the temple, and then pressed a special "sacrifice" button. alternatively, they could have a special "Sacrificial Altar" building that only they can build that they send units to to automatically sacrifice them without having to take any actions such as garrison and button-pressing. the historical aztecs DID take prisoners, but thats limited to just Quetzalcoatl's followers for godstorm (his bonus allows him to take prisoners from enemies that his soldiers kill similar to Set's slavery power). then, they can send the prisoners to be sacrificed instead of their own, and prisoners produce more favor than other units. its also possible for the aztecs to sacrifice livestock and breeding animals (like wild horses and camels and such), but they produce less favor.

as for undead units, those would be labeled as undead (and possibly make them subject to some upgrades or grant them certain immunities) but they would otherwise be the same as any other myth unit, trained at the temple and costing favor, rather than appearing on their own among dead soldiers

Building monuments and offering sacrifices seem like the major ways that some Mediterranean civilizations sought the favor of their gods. What precisely was offered to deities differed, but I think at the level of RTS abstractions it would boil down to resources, whether produced by the player or taken as spoils. Praying at those monuments and attending religious services doesn't seem to have been a major part of Greek, Roman, or Egyptian religion (but I'm not an expert), although there were festivals which could involve (for example) singing, dancing, athletics, and theatre (Greek) or processions and parades (all three). Priests also enacted rituals at temples, for example in Egyptian religion, for the benefit of the deities rather than congregations of observers, though Egyptian religion also had public festivals. Then of course there were the Greek and later Roman mysteries, in which congregations did who knows what behind closed doors.

festivals...now THATS a possibility. i know for a fact that the romans and greeks had alot of those. maybe the romans could have festivals while offerings go to the semites (it somehow just seems more fitting of the carthaginians, hebrews, and canaanites than the romans, for some reason)

In the Greek case this might mean that instead of getting around a temple and praying, the Greek units generate favor by singing, dancing, having an athletic contest ("praying" with different graphics and sounds), by using their Theatron, or by sacrificing resources (animals, vegetable produce, armor and weapons captured in war, etc.).

certainly, if use of prayer to generate favor overlaps, there would certainly need to be differentiations. maybe thats--IDEA! the chinese could maybe gain favor by being idle, in reference to meditation. what do you think?

the theatron is another idea. i think maybe ill give them that building after all (i was debating whether or not i should include that) but give it a different ability, where it generates favor faster or slower depending on how many units are garrisoned in it

I don't think Christian and Muslim units should get favor just by existing. They should need to go to church services, participate in sacraments, and/or pray at churches/mosques.

this is kinda based on the (undeniably modern) premise that teh major strength of christianity is from the sheer size of its following: there were far more christians by the year 1000 than there ever were greek pagans at any one time. but church services are another possibility. maybe that could be their primary means of favor generation for those two while they also get it by just existing, though at an incredibly reduced rate (even slower than with the norse heroes and super units)

Unfortunately, it might not be possible to give each civilization unique methods, and that's especially true the more civs you have.

i understand that, which is why i want to make each one as unique as possible with as little overlap as can be achieved. if there need to be a few other cultures besides the greeks that pray or a few others beyond the aztecs that sacrifice, then them's the breaks

[Aldandil]

the chinese could maybe gain favor by being idle, in reference to meditation. what do you think?

I don't understand, why would they do that? Are you thinking of Buddhism?

[oshron]

perhaps; i was planning for the main basis of the chinese mythological elements would be both their folklore and taoism. that just came up on the spur of a moment, really

[Aldandil]

Hm, does Taoism include a lot of meditation? I should know this but I don't.

[oshron]

i dont know that much about it either, but i was looking up some of its practices yesterday to try to get an idea as to what their favor generation method could be. meditation was the only idea i could come up with, though

of course, it could be that the chinese could have a special hero that prays or meditates or whatever to generate favor

by the way, i also came up with these various ideas:

TECHNOLOGIES

-- Urban Revolution: a civic technology that increases a civilization's maximum population capacity by 8%, but its only available to "urban" civilizations

-- Irrigation: an agricultural technology that improves farming rates by 10%

-- Wheel: a civic technology that improves the movement speed of civic units

-- Plow: an agricultural technology that improves farming rates

-- Metallurgy: reduces metal costs

-- Written Language: speeds up research rates

-- Salinization: reduces food costs (meant to be like salted and preserved foods)

GOD POWERS

-- Flood: raises the water level on the map significantly, drowning mortal units indiscriminately if they cant get away from the rising waters fast enough and rendering flooded buildings useless for the duration of the power. this also allows naval units to move over flooded areas, but theyll become stranded if when the flood ends

-- Blood: transforms all the water on the map into blood, slowing enemy ships and halting all naval and shoreline economic actions. this is supposed to be like the plague of egypt and will likely go to one of the egyptian minor gods

-- Locusts: borrowed from AOM (so not really an idea

), this would call on a swarm of locusts that would devour the crops in an area

-- Firstborn: a "stealthy" god power (meaning its activation is not announced) that remains hidden for one minute, and then reveals itself, with an announcement of the plague and a visual effect like in this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tCXqHd4Bhwg

. with that, every unit that has been created in the last minute is instantly killed, even your own (this is for balance)

-- Exodus: dries up all the water on the map and forces all gates to open and allow passage, allowing all players to cross the ocean floor (unless theres some terrain that prohibits passage) and leave or enter enemy cities. at the same time, though, no combat can go on anywhere on the map. this is, of course, in reference to the biblical exodus.

-- Plague: a more generic plague intended for the christians, this can be invoked on any enemy unit and thus infect them with the plague. theres no time limit on this one: invoke it in a populated area and you can infect the whole town. it can spread from the original host for five minutes, and linger at buildings and continue to affect units indiscriminately for eight minutes each. if youre not careful, you can infect your own units with it, too. its supposed to be like the black death.

-- Rapture: clearly intended for the christians, this is kind of a last-resort power. you activate this anywhere and it starts the rapture, bringing all of the faithful (your citizen-soldiers and female citizens) into heaven, replacing them with favor. heroes, myth units, and super units arent affected just so that you still have some defenses. its meant for your last big push of the game where you make alot of super units, crusaders, and myth units for the final battle

-- Trumpets: based on the Undermine power from AOM, when this is invoked on a wall, the sound of a trumpet is heard and the wall collapses. it can spread to other walls and defensive structures as well, and is in reference to the story of the walls of jericho falling at the sound of trumpets. this would go to the semites

-- Sakura: a japanese power, this is invoked in a large area, and cherry blossoms will fall in that area and favor output will increase dramatically for a time. ive already decided that Sengen will get this power; it goes with her focus on favor output (plus, as the goddess of cherry blossoms and Mt. Fuji, what could be more fitting of her?)

-- Blizzard: this is intended as a slavic power (the infamous russian winter that turned back napoleon and hitler), and causes a snowstorm all over the map that both slows down all enemy units and lowers their morale, basically a global version of Ra's Exhaustion power

-- Wildfire: not sure which god or what civ this could go to, but it makes lightning strike in the center of a large area and spark a huge fire, spreading over the entire area and burning everything indiscriminately. it also spreads quickly: cavalry can escape, but infantry are doomed if they are too close to the center of it

-- Earthquake: borrowed directly from AOM, this causes the earth to shake and topples buildings. units are hurt by it, but not as much as buildings, and fields are completely unaffected. not sure who could get this, but im kinda leaning towards japan (they experience earthquakes pretty much as frequently as california does)

[Aldandil]

TECHNOLOGIES

-- Urban Revolution: a civic technology that increases a civilization's maximum population capacity by 8%, but its only available to "urban" civilizations

-- Irrigation: an agricultural technology that improves farming rates by 10%

-- Wheel: a civic technology that improves the movement speed of civic units

-- Plow: an agricultural technology that improves farming rates

-- Metallurgy: reduces metal costs

-- Written Language: speeds up research rates

-- Salinization: reduces food costs (meant to be like salted and preserved foods)

Irrigation, Plow, Written Language, and Salinization make good sense. I'm not sure about Urban Revolution, maybe call it Urban Planning instead? That would be the difference between haphazardly constructed cities and those that are built purposely to a plan that improves how well neighborhoods and community services can be arranged. (I'm not explaining this well, but do you follow?) Metallurgy probably needs a different name, since by itself it looks to me like it's just a name for being able to make metals. Maybe it could be named Advanced Metallurgy or Expert Metallurgy?

GOD POWERS

*giant snip*

Those are some interesting ideas. Blood would be a very flavorful choice for Sakhmet. Technically in the story about her, the land was flooded by beer and it was Re's doing, to get her drunk so she'd stop massacering humans, but she hoped it was a flood of blood, which is why she drank it.

[oshron]

while it would be fitting of sekmet in her stories, i think i'll leave her godpower as acid rain--i may have said it before, but another unwritten rule is that each civilization is supposed to get around 2 "natural disaster" godpowers, the kind of powers that can pretty much completely destroy a town in one fell swoop. blood would be a far more passive godpower (its supposed to be like the plague of blood, where all of the water in egypt turned into blood), so itd probably go to an earlier god. candidates right now are Bastet, Ma'at, Sobek, Hathor, and Khnum. of these, hathor and khnum seem the most worthy to me, but thinking about it more logically, khnum makes the most sense since he's the god of the nile and the power has to do with water

i also just remembered that we dont have an ancient egyptian name for the Apep-spawn myth unit. this could be remedied by just giving it apep's egyptian name and leaving out "spawn", though it would still be the same. i also think ill transfer the Ba-kapu (crocodile-ram) over to bastet because i cant think of anything for the winged giraffe, which also means that ptah needs a new terrestrial myth unit (since apep-spawn is naval). any ideas on that one?

also, i went over it all earlier, and, minus those things i mentioned above, all of the egyptian myth units are down! thats quite an achievement in my book, considering egyptian mythology isnt as famous or as readily available as greco-roman or even norse, celtic, and chinese mythology.

[Aldandil]

I think for now Memy-khery-djenehwif or Memy-khery-dematwif can work for the winged giraffe, or use English. When I have the chance to check out

Loprieno's book, I can try to figure out better grammar for the name. Also there could be real Egyptologists or linguists that could help you. The egyptian language list (look at http://www.rostau.org.uk/aegyptian-l/index.html) probably has people who could help.

I don't know how to say Apep-Spawn, but Apep is Aapep. I suppose Sa-Aapep is "son of Apep," but I think naming it in English would actually be better since what it is probably won't be immediately apparent from it's appearance and abilities.

For Blood, if you are considering Hathor I think she's the best choice. The same story was sometimes told about her instead of Sakhmet.

Edited September 9, 2010 by Aldandil

[oshron]

clarification there would likely be established with in-game history and unit descriptions, so Sa-Apep would be described as "Sa-Apep: demon-spawn of the snake Apep that hypnotizes enemies," and, as other examples, there would be things like "Khaty: jackal-headed warrior of Anubis" or "Mestyt: lion-headed follower of Sekhmet" and "Nau-Duaty: giant serpent-dragon of the underworld"

i also decided to drop the winged giraffe entirely. since i transferred teh crocodile-ram over to bastet, ptah is now lacking a terrestrial myth unit. any ideas for what could go to him?

i also decided to give the earthquake godpower to the mesopotamians in reference to the epic of gilgamesh (humbaba caused an earthquake at uruk that killed shamhat, one of the central characters)