SMST

I strongly agree with that. Though the Kilimanjaro won't be part of the campaign, most likely.

I have a question about the Carthagenian Civilisation Concept: To me it looks as if they had no real disadvantages. They get all citizen soldier classes (except cav archer, but still), all Ship classes plus the best ships, two very strong special units (War Elephant!), if you include the War Elephant as a ram, they have also all siege classes, they have the strongest walls, a very good economy, the best sea trade ... Where do their disadvantages lie? I imagine that the individual Carthagenian Soldier would be quite weak (not as weak as the Persians, but not be able to compensate that by fast training and low costs either) and the units will be most expensive. (since most of them are mercenaries) But even if this is correct ... I think that they are too strong ...

I would still say there is no need to mod them ... We should't dwell on detail too much. If we could just take Carthagenians for a sea battle (doesn't need to be Cumae), then it's fine. It wouldn't be too unrealistic if the Carthagenians sent their fleet after the Syracusians, either. Indeed it does. In 0 A.D., you have to introduce the ideas of ramming, boarding and garrisoning of ships. This is planned for the game, and it needs to be introduced. Well, i am actually rather anxious on Salamis, but you guys did not like that.

Well, one could leave aside Cumae and make up a fictional sea battle against Cathage if that is a problem. The Etrusicans do not need to be modded just for tutorial's sake. That is what my history atlas says here. Of course, one can never know if the facts are correct after such a lomg time, but it is clearly a good background for creatimg a storyline.

Something just occured to me when you mentioned Syracusae! It is not widely known that during the Invasion of Xerxes in 480 BC, there were also related fights in Sicily. From their mother-city Tyre, Carthago recieved the order to attack the Sicilian Greeks in their colonies. The Athenians called for help against Xerxes by the tyrant of Syracuse, Gelon, and although he refused, the Persians considered the Greeks of Magna Graecia a threat and ordered the Carthagenians to attack. They were defeated by Gelon at the Battle of Himera. In 474, the Etrusican Fleet (allies of Carthage at that point) was defeated by Hieron, Gelons brother, which was also important for the Rise of Rome which would follow some decades later. That would be a good tutorial campaign. Founding Syracuse and fighting in both land and sea battles. It would be Greek. It would be related to the Persian Wars as a fore-shadowing of the Alex Campaign. Perfect. And I agree with you. The Rise of Athens is something for expierienced players. I had just no alternatives in my mind.

That's what I said above.

As I said, I could imagine perhaps four or five scenarios about that first victory, then perhaps a cinematic that shows the eventual conquest by Roman forces, then 8 or 7 scenarios about Boadicea. I also thought about some fictional tribal war for Boadicea. It would be, that Celtic nobles, perhaps relatives of Boadicea, question a woman's ability to lead a army, especially if she is driven by strong feelings (revenging the plundering of her home and the raping of their children) and irrational decisions that are caused by them. They start some rebellion amongst the tribes and you have to unite them before launching an attack against the Romans. Also, there could be some doubt about the validness of Boadicea's heritage from her dead husband. (It was common amongst Celts that women could inherit and hold lands and kingdoms. As far as i know, however, the leadership turned over to men in case of war. Of course, I am not an expert on that matter) Hm, maybe there could be a fictional character, who is Briton but raised in Gaul by Romans so he would know about the organisation and the Roman strategies. Some kind of Aetius and the Huns vice versa. For Boadicea herself, I wanted to portray her very harsh and emontion-driven, perhaps even bitter. For reasons, see above. (the plundering and raping part) It would be "hoplitai koinai", actually. Sounds interesting. What city states are there going to be? Athens, Sparta, Thebes, Korinth and Milet would be the most obvious. What about including mythology/philosophy/different government systems? (For example, Athenian citizen soldiers are stronger since there is democracy and they have more to say in public affairs, while in Sparta, elite soldiers are stronger) It was actually Athens (and Eretria) who sent support to the Ionian colonists. Sparta didn't do a thing during the first Persian invasion. There is no need to make it fictional. In a RTS that literally claims to be historically accurate (which it is) there should be no campaign which at least has some historical background. And after all, Alpha's suggestion is quite what you intended and it has a historical background.

Special greets too. Oh, sorry. Misunderstanding. Hmm, I don't know much about that, but it sounds really good. It could feature everything from base-building to tactical battles. The only missing point is, as you mentioned, sea warfare. Thanks, I also found it interesting what you had to tell about the first victory of the Britons against the Romans. Was that the Caesarian attempt to invade Britain? Some details about that? Because I find it hard to find 12 scenarios regarding Boadicea, even if I invent a victory. Therefore, it might be useful to put your suggestion first. You are right, definitley. There is much potential in the story of Athens. It was the best tutorial topic I could find, though, because this is really about the birth of a whole culture and their self-concoiusness. Your mod idea sounds interesting. Will it cover all of the Ancient Greek history, from Minoeans and Myceneans to the conquest by the Romans? Actually, the ones who started the uprising in Asia Minor were Ionians.

What are the Plans for Part 2, anyway? Will Parthians and Sassanids be one faction or be seperated? (or even one evolving out of the other??)

To quote myself: I'm planning to make this mod, and i will probably start working on a Design Document for factions, units and buildings when the Alpha comes out. I have no other skills, however, than working out the design and the system, creating maps and scenarios and a bit of texture editing, so I would definitley need some help.

Would be a great special ability for a "Parthian Horse Archer" unit for Part 2, since they were famous for doing accurate shots from horseback while moving and retreating.

Yes, we have three greek teachers at our school and there is some bickering even amongst them how to pronouncitation. But we all learn the "official", very German pronounciation whatsoever. Of course, no one can tell how it was pronouciated exactly.^^ What should be changed in pronouncitation in the game is the "η" (Eta). It was a long "e" in Ancient Greek, not "i", as it is today. Just to mention it.

Noticed that, too.*grin* Btw there are some unit comments in the files of the pre-alpha. (Greek ones) How can one include them? The pronunciation is today's Greek btw. But it is probably nearer to ancient Greek than the one i learn at school.

Both Marian and Imperial Romans are going to be in the Atlas Editor, so that'll be no problem. Hmm, i do not know if the developers would care about pre-persian Middle East since it is completely out of every of their timeframes - Part 1 and 2. One could mod them, though. Hey, that'll be an interesting project.

Oh, didn't know there was a limit.^^ Thanks.

Hello. The editor is already included in the Alpha release and will be fairly powerful with the final release, as i see it. Hehe, you registered to comment my ideas? Well, explain what you mean saying "massive". I agree that the time-span is fairly great. Perhaps one could skip it a bit and focus just on colonisation and the Persian Wars. The Celts are not that good to feature as a tutorial civ, because they are very restricted in classes - no real navy, no siege - and are designed to be a more "special" faction. The only other civ i would regard being fit to be a tut civlisation would be the Romans. (Italian Wars, anyone?) Oh, and the Leonidas tutorial campaign is also in discussion. Hm, that would be possible. Perhaps mixing both to get a "British Resistance" Campaign. My point is just, what characters have we got to feature in this campaign? For I think that campaign need to tell the story of a character rather than just of wars, which makes them more interesting. I chose Boadicea because I found it interesting having a woman playing the main role, which was not often seen in ancient times. (Cleopatra, yes, but then i have to remember how Rise&Fall screwed that.) And on Boadicea winning: Yes, it would be unhistorical. I've read some articles on the net about that, tough, and some said that the main reason why Boadicea ultimately lost was their lack of organisation. It could therefore be made in a campaign that Boadicea (or someone else) sees the need for the Britons to organize themselves to stand a chance against the Romans. Not everything needs to be absolutely historical, although i try to keep it as accurate as possible. I just realize, I don't have one, either.^^ Hmm, whats the point to force a campaign for every faction? Corecct me, but did the Greeks ever rise against Cyrus or are you just confusing him with Darius? Otherwise, yeah, that's what I wanted to do, split up over the Tutorial and the Alexander Campaign. Two campaigns covering the same topic? Repetitio non delectat, though, I had a idea for a so called "turning-point" Campaign for the Punic Wars: You play Hannibal, starting his invasion in Spain, later Gaul and Italy, until the Battle of Cannae. Then, you are changing sides, fighting Hannibal as Maximus and Scipio in reverse. Problem here, within the limitations of 0 A.D. you have no featured enemies unless you want to fight Persians over the whole campaign. Persians in 0 A.D. are the already formed empire, containig all of the Middle East. It would be great for a mod, where you have Lydians, Babylonians, Assyrians, Egyptians etc. all as individual factions. Once again, repetitio non delectat. (the one who points out the stupidity of that sentence gets a cookie.) You have a Iberian campaign - fighting other tribes and Romans. Then Celts - hey, same again ... That the Marian Reforms are not part of the game is the reason why the Boadicea will be no featured campaign of WFG, as i have been informed, because it's out of the timeframe. edit: Tell me - why are the quote-tags not working?

Hi everyone, I tried out your newest Pre-Alpha Release, and a bug ocurred to me when working with Atlas. I placed a object. Then I switched to Move/Delete tool to move it around. But when i tried to select the unit, the program would crash down. This happened everytime i tried to select a unit. I spoke with Mythos_Ruler about this issue, and he confirmed the crash. Hopefully, you will be able to find and dig out the root of the problem. Greetings, SMST

Well, i think the trainig and building buttons are a bit too small ... i had actually trouble reading the descriptions. I would suggest to enlarge them a bit. Also, i had some problems that my workers would just stop collecting resources after a time. Otherwise, it's great. Nice to hear some music and sound. Also, it's great that units do now correctly take their positions as they march to a location. Looking forward to July!

Apologies. Hmm, the people in the last screen have beards, after all. And for the Sacred Band Warriors i chose the head model without beards deliberatly for this group consisted of young men only. (which were all homosexual couples btw.) I made no new textures for this, just re-arranging the existing ones. I agree that Alexander is missing "something", but i have very limited texturing skills.^^ Yeah, imagine what it will be if 0 A.D. is finally released. Thanks for the nice feedback, all of you!

And some additional support units, in fact, male villagers and noblemen for both playable factions, perhaps for campaign purposes.

Ahh, there tey are. Thanks. Replaced the screeshot in my post with the resized new one.

Ah, thanks for the information. I was already wondering if the game has a integrated screenshot function. Edit: The next question is: Where are the screens saved? Not in binaries/data/screenshots, which would be the most obvoius.

I've made some more stuff. This is a recreation of the Battle of Chaironeia. The factions are the Theban-Athenian Alliance (blue) against the Macedonians (red) under Philipp and Alexander. The Theban hoplite units are actually members of the Hieron Lokhon, meaning "Sacred Band", of Thebes, which i made out of one original texture called "thebes_sacredband.dds". In the front, there's a closeup of one of them. Next to him, there is a Greek Swordsman that i made just for fun purposes with no historical reference at all. These units are spontaneusly called "Phylakes", meaning "guards". In the background, the heavy phalanx of Macedonian Pezhetairoi under General Parmenion (another new unit, the guy with sword an a frontranker helmet in the front of the Pezhetairoi) and Philipp is seeming to be retreating from the Sacred Band Warriors of Thebes, supported by Peltasts. However, on the left flank Alexander is waiting with the Hetairoi cavalry, ready to fall into the opening gap of the Theban ranks. Historically, the battle ended with all of the Sacred Band warriors slain because they refused to surrender. A memorial site was built at Chaironeia, similar to the one at the Thermophylae for Leonidas and his Spartans ~150 years earlier.

Thanks. Now, as i understand the system, i'll maybe come up with more. Is it possible to include units like them in the actual game for campaign purposes?

Thank you both. It seems to work now. That's what i did: As you might remember, i am still planning my three campaigns for 0 A.D., and while planning the Alexander Campaign, it occurred to me that i would need Alexander in more states than just on a horse. Also, i wanted to test you actor system. I was courious if i could combine the components free to a new unit, and i have not been disappointed. It seems to be very, VERY flexible and powerful. Well done. Left is, as you can clearly see, the original Alexander hero unit. In the middle, there is Alexander on foot in full armor. He will be needed for some special scenarios, where Bukephalas is not aviable and, of course, for the first scenario where he gets to tame Bukephalas. Right, Alexander without any arms and w.o. helmet. This one is for cinematics. Both units on foot have the long cape which Leonidas and the Spartans have. You guys gave the original unit the shorter version (due to clipping reasons, i believe), but it looked quite stupid on foot. So i decided to give him the longer one. Also, the Alexander in the middle has a hypaspist shield. Because he uses actually Themistocles' ani file, it would have looked stupid if he stretched his arm out without having a shield. Well ...