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DarcReaver

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Posts posted by DarcReaver

  1. Random ramblings

    in Help & Feedback

    Posted

    6 hours ago, stanislas69 said:

    Right but artists are not here for that and don't decide this stuff like at all. Most if not all don't even touch the game at all except adding new actors. Which is not wasting time because that's why they are here that's what they do best and that's what they want to do. The last point is the philosophy here which sounds quite weird from the outside especially when you look at it from a company pov. But that's how it works. Also trampling has a patch. Was just not reviewed, accepted and commited yet because nobody had the time to do it.

    Even if the game has a philosophy of "everyone does what he/she wants" the game still needs a gameplay concept.

    Art ofc is important, but it's just one part of the whole. Also, good news on the trampling patch :)

    • Like 1

  2. Gameplay Feature: Battalions and Formations

    in Delenda Est

    Posted · Edited by DarcReaver

    12 hours ago, feneur said:

    Please try and be a bit more polite. I can understand your frustration, but still, a nicer tone helps :)

    The posts are in this thread. It doesn't contain hundreds of posts on 20+ pages (which I would understand if someone doesn't read through those). It's only 3 pages long and takes 5-10 minutes to read through. If someone doesn't do that and comes up with a point that has been discussed 1(!) page earlier he certainly doesn't deserve a polite answer from my point of view. That's why I reacted the way I did.

    In short the quotes that revolve around the single soldier <-> battalion mechanic. Hf reading.

    On 16.10.2015 at 7:30 AM, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

    I don't want that micro. Point of battalion is to remove tedious micro and focus on activity of groups of soldier instead (move micro away from one area toward a more interesting area like charging and flanking and shield walls and all that stuff; remember player only have finite amount of concentration). Plus with persistent battalion you can have cool upgrade and powerups that would be difficult to have without persist battalion. :)

     

    On 16.10.2015 at 8:35 AM, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

    Right and if that the case (I have play that game so you are right they are trained like 1 soldier at a time but then they gather into battalions on their own), then why not just train them as 1 battalion from the beginning instead of make the soldiers auto-form the battalion after they are trained? :) Makes unnecessary step your way. :) Just skip that step and make them battalion friom the beginning. :)

     

    On 16.10.2015 at 6:30 PM, DarcReaver said:

    How do you want to make the "micro automatic" ? Units form battalions by themselves on their behalf? So in the middle of a fight your army suddenly moves back from the enemy and starts forming a phalanx because 2 additional soldiers arrived into the battle?

    What's the point anyways.... single soldiers can't use formations, die faster, can't get included in the "experience" gain process from fighting, deal less damage and are more tedious to micro. Either use battalion combat or don't. But don't mix it because it's stupid.

    Because that would be too easy to implement, to design and to balance. Tt's definately important to water down the concept so it won't work at all anymore. The only units that ever should be single units are expensive key units like elephants, siege or chariots or something like that.

     

    On 28.1.2016 at 10:31 PM, DarcReaver said:

    From what I've read in the vision 0 ad sounds a bit like an RTS version of a total war game, not really an AoE clone. Less focus on economy (yet still you need to manage several resources which is a good thing) and more focus on armies and unit compositions. That's why I think 0 ad should use a battalion system instead of individual units. Right now the individual unit management is very tedious and keeps you away from fighting. Also, because all gatherers work as combat units its very hard to apply pressure on the enemy as I've stated numerous times already.

    I'd really advise to have a look at this.

     

    • Thanks 1

  4. Gameplay Feature: Battalions and Formations

    in Delenda Est

    Posted

    5 hours ago, imperium said:

    My idea...
    For me there should the unit be divided into battalions, but I would like taking a group of women or units there is an option to create a battalion, but I would not producing once you produce a unit or group of women, I would like that units produced or women if the player wants can gather them into a battalion ...
     

    Discussed before. How does that improve the concept? Apart from making it more complicated without any benefit.

    • Like 1

  5. Random ramblings

    in Help & Feedback

    Posted

    6 minutes ago, LordGood said:

    You're talking about two completely different departments that operate nearly independently of each other. Attention towards art will not affect attention elsewhere, since artists generally don't work in balancing or programming. Don't feel the need to put down conversations you don't find particularly useful to those you prefer.

    Still doesn't change the fact that noone delivered a decent gameplay concept so far. Working on art is nice and all, but at the core is the gameplay. So that should be a priority instead of deciding which unit has what type of axe. lol.

  6. Gameplay Feature: Battalions and Formations

    in Delenda Est

    Posted

    4 minutes ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

    Nothing on the battlaions have been done, but other things like individual upgrade towers and (some) units are implemented. So, select individual wooden tower and "upgrade" it to stone for 100 stone cost. Select a Hypaspist and "upgrade" him to Argyraspis (Silver Shield) for 10 metal. Thing like that. Also start on a Scythian civ, but stalled. Now that upgrade fearure is possible though, I think a nomadic civ like Scythians now a possibility (but I will need use the Celtic art assets for now).

    Actually, that is at least something.

    And I found something else:

    http://trac.wildfiregames.com/changeset/18421

    "Training units in batches is now allowed". That is another preset for a battalion system. If now someone tries to include a squad system this might work out.

  10. Gameplay Feature: Battalions and Formations

    in Delenda Est

    Posted

    5 hours ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

    If you mix concept, it will be watered down and a mess to control. No game I have play has adequately to my satisfaction had a mixed system. It always felt disjointed and unnecessary with added complexity. So, I think the game should either have battalion or not. You can always have match start with extra scouts and hunters or something so you can have your fun microing a unit to spear a boar.

     

    I can very easily see each player being able to train individual units like foragers or scouts for those roles, but then that are their only roles. They don't swap into and out of battalions and add steps that make the concept feel tacked on.

    Actually, that might be a nice idea. Specialist units like certain hunters work like early "hero" units, that are individuals. But I still think women should be trained in groups. Foraging and stuff was always done by groups of people, not single entities.

    • Like 1

  11. Gameplay Feature: Battalions and Formations

    in Delenda Est

    Posted

    1 hour ago, Palaxin said:

    I think that's a problem, too. Early game should be more focused on other aspects than super fast unit production. Look at AoE2. In the other thread I just posted a video where the pros got 24 pop at 10 min with PURE booming. In 0 A.D. 130 are possible. IMHO waaaay too much.

    There is a button which allows to reallocate all selected units to the resources they gathered last...

    Why not make each unit more valuable so you micro 5 units instead of 5 batches? At least in the early game that should be the way. Later you are totally right, I'm totally annoyed of late game eco micro work ;) 

    I think this is a very minor problem. You could visualize battalion training similar than batch training now... So when you have unlocked battalions and click to train a unit the icon is shown with the unit number. Or there other possible solutions. No big thing if you ask me.

    Yes, in AoE it's fine with the pop management. But I think that batches of units create more atmosphere because it feels more that you're managing a city. If you have a "city" that only consists of 5 super efficient worker units it looks weird imo. I rather have multiple units at once instead.

    As for micro, I think AoE II isn't that great, as defenses are so strong, and you just run around and try to prevent being out of range of the TC.

  12. Gameplay Feature: Battalions and Formations

    in Delenda Est

    Posted · Edited by DarcReaver

    1 hour ago, Palaxin said:

     

    What about unlocking battalions either in a tech or with a phase upgrade? E.g. you start in village phase with few units where micro work grants significant benefits and is still not too annoying. When you hit town phase or city phase at the latest, your population has grown to a point where single units really do not matter any more. Thus battalions make sense here... I would still advocate battalion dissolution as in some cases it wouldn't make that much sense to send a troop of soldiers e.g. scouting

    Edit: what about this three-step model:
    village phase - no battalions
    town phase - simple battalions without musicians, officers, ... and only some standard formations available
    city phase - battalions can be upgraded with musicians, officers, heroes... and special formations like Testudo become available

    Why? What's the point? Every unit in 0 ad can fight, and you'll have 30-50 units as single units early on. After any fight its just impossible to properly redistribute them to gather resources again. It's the most annoying "feature" that this game has. Whenever it gets to a fight I just get annoyed because I know I have to redeploy every @#&#036;%ing soldier to the resources.

    Why not just go with 3-4 battalions instead? Women are trained in 5 person batches and you can send 1 batch of women to a resource spot. So you micro 5 units instead of 25. Why is it necessary to have single units? On top of that, how do you want to balance the costs? when you unlock city phase suddenly all your units you can train cost 10 times more resources because you suddenly train them in batches. This just makes everything confusing. It should be straight forward and streamlined.

    Battalion sizes ofc can vary with the city phases, e.g. lategame you can increase your battalion sizes with upgrades and what not. But pls no single unit -> battalion unit transfer. Also, certain battalions and formations can and will be unlocked by teching, or maybe with increasing squad experience. Musicians and officers can be upgraded on each battalion individually, yes.

    • Like 1

  14. Gameplay Feature: Battalions and Formations

    in Delenda Est

    Posted

    From what I've read in the vision 0 ad sounds a bit like an RTS version of a total war game, not really an AoE clone. Less focus on economy (yet still you need to manage several resources which is a good thing) and more focus on armies and unit compositions. That's why I think 0 ad should use a battalion system instead of individual units. Right now the individual unit management is very tedious and keeps you away from fighting. Also, because all gatherers work as combat units its very hard to apply pressure on the enemy as I've stated numerous times already.

    I'd really advise to have a look at this.

    • Like 1

  15. A few small tweaks which would balance out some Civilizations

    in General Discussion

    Posted

    The design isn't even remotely finished ata all, so there is no apparent gameplay apart from "harvest lumber + food, build soldiers". Like half of all techs are missing, there are a handful of units which do not cost a logical amount of resources and the economy system is unfinished. 

    How can this be unbalanced? Also, how is this graphic alpha in any respect "competitive"? I don't get it..

  18. Finishing the Seleucid Faction ideas

    in Gameplay Discussion

    Posted · Edited by DarcReaver

    On 14.1.2016 at 8:46 AM, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

    Devs should jyst merge all my stuff with core game, but I am bias.

    They have access to the mod, trust me. if they wanted to use the stuff they could but they don't, so here we are. :)

    This.

    On 14.1.2016 at 9:57 AM, niektb said:

    One reason is because your mod also contains some non-free material (icons from AOE series for example)

    Are you serious? 0 ad is non profit, so it's hard to sue devs for "stealing data" because they don't get financial advantage out of it. But anyways, 2d artists are not that hard to find, at least ones that do icons and minor 2d stuff.

     

    And even then you could just do ahead and do some 64x64 paint images. Or just use random artworks that are free to use and scale them down for usage.

  21. Gameplay Feature: Battalions and Formations

    in Delenda Est

    Posted

    Then this is where those two projects differs, here we work on the features we want not the ones that are necessarily best for the game. Which is why we don't have building damage yet for instance. So maybe the ask themselves that question, but in the end it's just doing things, not THE things. Which is fair as long as things are getting done.

    Sure, that's the point. One thinig people have to keep in mind:

    A game consists of "must-have" parts, and "nice-to-have" parts. You cannot make a game consisting with only "nice to have" content. The difference between these two things are determined by the game design sheet that was the original vision.

  22. Gameplay Feature: Battalions and Formations

    in Delenda Est

    Posted

    This is not how things work here. It's mostly based on motivation. After all we are mere volunteers.

    I know how stuff works, I've been in a volunteer modding team for almost 5 years now, too. Ofc everything is based upon motivation. However, one must ask himself whether his/her freetime is worth spending on something that will ultimatively suck just because he/she wants it to be in a certain way instead of forcing something different to improve the game objectively.

    If you have a complaint you should talk to Feneur

    Well I don't really complain, I just think that this would make the game very different from AoE type of games, give it a very unique flair and add many tactical options that otherwise wouldn't exist in that way.

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