Wijitmaker
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Posts posted by Wijitmaker
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I hear you guys. I think the challenge is volunteer turnover. This game has been in development for so long that is continually evolving due to the people working on it. When I was running it for 6 years, I did my best to maintain a cohesive vision for the game. I took a lot of heat for "locking in" some design decisions and would tell people to hold off on criticism until it could be played as a whole. We got 60% there, but I couldn't finish before I handed off the reigns to Erik. Again due to this being a volunteer effort, people come and people go and that shapes how the game is made. Michael saw 0 A.D. in a very different way than I did, and things started to change (what was once locked was open again for debate) - but I don't think he made it all the way to the end of his vision either.
The dangerous end result in this path is a hodge-podge of halfway implemented features that don't quite make sense as a whole. Ken Wood (lead designer back in the early 2000's) once stated: The fate of 0 A.D. is in the hands, of those who have vision and perseverance. This is why it is going to be super difficult to make a game that is cohesive over a period of 15 years, everyone has a different idea of how it should be done. It is both good and bad. The flip side is... If you don't like it, you can get involved and do something about it to change it.
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Okay let's assume community advice is bad which is a little weird on a community game but whatever.
I think we should then look at the original plans: http://trac.wildfiregames.com/wiki/Design_Document
and see what we are missing and what we have that we should'nt.
If you don't know where you are going look where you are from.
I see a lot of features than we lack and only capturing that is added. Maybe I'm wrong but we are still on trac.
I thibk what we need is someone to lead now.
Just out of curiosity... I was wondering if anyone has ever read this?
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Over a decade ago, the plan was to have ambient sound play a large role in the sound scape for the game - more so than the music. The frequency of music played was a setting in the user configs. Music would be queued on command (attack/under attack) or randomly (frequency settings). The ambiance sounds played were going to be associated with what terrain types were displayed on the screen.
http://wildfiregames.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=308
http://wildfiregames.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=309
We wanted to get away from endless looping of music and have the dynamically change.
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Just watched the youtube video. Most impressive - you have put a lot of time into this. I love the medieval building set. I think I was most impressed by your icons which look beautiful. Though I don't understand the pony stuff, well done - bravo
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Awesome work, great improvements
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I clicked on the link and realised, that it brought me to a thread I created myself.
Time flies so fast ...Ha, yes - it does! Christoph - I honestly can't believe some of the stuff that you programmed at such a young age. That was very impressive. If I recall, you did work on the run/stamina as well as auras. I'm not sure if either of those features have been fully reimplemented to the degree of their prior maturity since the rewrite.
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A lot of code is overwritten only in CinemaManager, and just small fixes are in math splines. So yes, there is old code, which works. But you will can to see code later.
Cool. Fun factoid from the past - this is the last video I can remember that was made using the cinematic camera:
I think it is the has the highest number of views of any 0 A.D. video because it was on slashdot.
http://games.slashdot.org/story/09/07/15/170217/0-ad-goes-open-source
It would be cool to get a nifty video using this for the next alpha release. *wink* *wink* *nudge* *nudge*
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Awesome! I don't think I have seen anybody make use of a cinematic camera in 0 A.D. in nearly 10 years. Way to go! Just out of curiosity - were you able to salvage any of the old code?
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That is a nice collection of units. It looks like quite a bit of work that you put into the mod! Thank you for the offer
What software did you use to make them? What kind of animations did you make for the Civ mod? What file formats could you share (3D, textures)?
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Yep, that is Brendan. He is a fantastic artist. I enjoyed working with him. Here is his blog:
For the last 6 years Brendan has been working at: http://www.venan.com/
He may still be connected to the PM system here on the forums. You could try: http://wildfiregames.com/forum/index.php?showuser=579
Otherwise I'm connected with him via LinkedIn and I could make an introduction for you.
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Templates are indeed in XML. Technologies are in .json
Sorry, off topic - that is interesting news to me. I bet it has probably has been that way for years
Just out of curiosity does anyone remember why the departure was made from XML? I'm assuming there was a logical reason why... -
So... Whats the polycount Limit on for the structure models?
I made a quick model here, and rendered it in cycles. 634 Faces/Polygons
Nice
Reminds me of one of the first screenshots made of 0 A.D. back in 2001. Before the game was even fully 3D.
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I don't think that artwork is a gigantic concern, it is always changing and evolving. It could always be used in the scenario editor, and could be changed on civ selection in game. I think the depth of strategy it would return to the game would be worth the trade off. With fewer factions, this enables greater diversity. The more factions you have, they all start to blend together in similarities - with only subtle differences. Balancing a dozen plus factions is also challenging. Red Alert had 2 factions. Star-craft had 3. The original 6 civs were chosen because they had some distinct historical differences that gave players a unique experience when they played. Mythos changed that after I left. He really liked the Greeks and was influenced by his own desires to recreate his dream game "Age of the Aegean". So, when he took over the game design of 0 A.D. some of the original vision was lost.
When I say balance, what I mean is that you don't want the outcome of the game decided by a players faction selection before the game even begins. Every faction should give players an opportunity to win if played with a strategy that compliments the faction.
I'm not saying that what 0 A.D. is doing today is necessarily bad. I'm just saying that it is different than what was intended and (in my opinion) removes elements of strategy and makes the game harder to balance.
(An extreme version of what I'm suggesting is that you start the game without a civ selection - just a generic civilization. Everyone starts the same. The civ is then selected in play after you have had a chance to observe the behaviors of your opponent and the map.)
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and would be a more interesting mechanic than having many visually similar civilizations available to choose from
Yep, you got the idea
Now we just have to convince everyone else to put it back the way it was before -
Glad you got it to work
Skeleton files seem to be a point of confusion for many people. I'm not sure if we already have a recent and up to date resource to point people to. If not, I think it would be worth capturing what was learned and sharing it with others that could be used in the future.
It would also be good to capture and document your art flow from Maya as a legitimate method of making models and animations for 0 A.D.
I know documenting is a pain, but it is a tremendous resource to those that don't know where to begin.
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Few more hints.
There are lots of examples in the location that Sander pointed you to: http://trac.wildfiregames.com/browser/ps/trunk/binaries/data/mods/public/art/skeletons
Make note of what your joints are named in Maya. Prop points follow special rules.
Some more background info for you.
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Check out ColladaMaya or maybe this? https://collada.org/mediawiki/index.php/OpenCOLLADA
I'm not a Maya guy either... but I am a Max guy. When we first transitioned to COLLADA and .dae files, 3ds Max didn't natively support a .dae export. We had to use plugins. Most artists used 3ds Max and not Blender then as well. So, the game engine was largely developed around the ColladaMax exported .dae files. That was 2006-2007ish... today Max has it's own .dae export. I don't think the natively exported files work with pyrogenesis (at least they didn't last time I checked), only this plugin worked. Long story short... I wonder if Maya has the same issue?
Perhaps you could use a plugin. Would any of these work? http://colladamaya.sourceforge.net/file_releases.php
I noticed that this appears to have some activity as well? https://github.com/KhronosGroup/OpenCOLLADA
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Micket, this might be some fun reading for you if you haven't read it before. This was the path to getting normal maps implemented in the game by myconid a few years ago.
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Fun fact
10 years ago 0 A.D. originally had only these civs:
Celts
Hellenes
Iberians
Romans
Persians
Carthaginians
Two of the civs "branched" into sub-civs (celts - britons, gauls & hellens - sparta & athens). But, this was intended to happen during the game as a strategic choice - not something you decide and set in stone before the game even started.
The choice would have shown itself during one of the town/city upgrade phases, and would have affected the hero choices, special structures, and late game technologies.
I'm not saying the existing method is bad, just that I personally like the concept better (more strategy, easier to balance) than having dozens of civs that are slightly different from each other to choose from at the start. But... it is no longer my decision to make and hasn't been for years. I'm just throwing the idea back on the table
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I'm not sure about the female capturing stuff. It seems too much trouble for the cheap units we have.
Yeah, that is kind of the point though. Female citizens weren't simply intended to be a cheaper citizen soldier that didn't fight. They brought equal or greater value to the game (vs a basic male citizen soldier) by offering higher economic capability, but at the trade off - being the risk of easily loosing that asset's allegiance. If an enemy scout comes into your village and sees 20 unprotected female citizens it would be a goal to capture a handful of them before they ran into a garrison. I could explain in more detail if you are interested in hearing more, or try to find the old discussions.
About replacing a building with the equivalent for that civ, that's often not very simple.
I think this was back in the day when all the civs had the same buildings, none were given special buildings that were civ specific. So, that probably wouldn't work today. I think the intention was that if a celt unit captured a roman barracks, it didn't make much sense historically that the barracks would continue to spit out roman soldiers - but instead it would be used to make more celt soldiers. But, I personally don't think that is a big deal. In the C&C games, it was like you described. If you were the Allies and you captured a Chinese tank factory, you as the allies could start making Chinese tanks.
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This discussion jogs my memory from over 10 years ago.
Here is what was originally specified. This concept was largely taken from Westwood studio's model of how entities transfer ownership (Command and Conquer - I can't see this video from work, but I think it will show it:
)I'm not sure if all can see these links so I'll cut and paste the contents:
http://wildfiregames.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=699
CAPTURING FEMALE CITIZENS
1. INITIATING CAPTURE
To initiate the capture sequence, click a Cavalry Citizen Soldier, then activate his Capture action (the same command used to capture buildings), and right-click the intended female unit target.
2. FEMALE REACTION
The female unit has a relatively long LOS, so she is generally aware of her surroundings, and has a "flight response" wherein she will attempt to garrison in the nearest available building if a unit attempts to capture or harm her.
3. HOLD PERIOD
If the capturing cavalry manages to place himself adjacent to her, she will be held in place for a period of 5 seconds (which simulates getting her onto his mount to be carried off).
During this period she cannot perform any action, nor can the capturing unit defend himself, and if attacked must "release her" (cancel the Capture command by giving him another action) in order to defend himself.
Once the hold period has elapsed, the player acquires full control of the Female Citizen.
4. CANCELLING CAPTURE
If the Capture command is cancelled, the enemy will regain control of the Female Citizen, and she may flee and thus he will lose his quarry.
5. CAPTURING BENEFITS
1. A free econ worker, capable of farming, husbandry, and enhancing the productivity of male econ workers.
2. Captured Female Citizens are not affected by the player's population cap. Therefore, through capturing Female Citizens, the player's Population Limit can exceed its maximum.http://wildfiregames.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=742
CAPTURING ENEMY BUILDINGS
Capturing an enemy building replaces the building with the equivalent class for the player's civilisation. It does not allow the player to research another civilisation's technologies or train units that are unavailable to the player's civilisation.
Special Buildings, that are unique to a civilisation, cannot be captured. Some buildings, such as walls and towers, do not allow a player to build other buildings near to them. Such buildings also cannot be captured but must be destroyed. Allied buildings cannot be captured.
a] A building cannot be captured or destroyed if it contains garrisoned units, since garrisoned units will suffer all damage before the building itself can be harmed. All garrisoned units must therefore first be killed before the building can be captured.
b] The capture sequence is initiated by giving the Capture command to a group of Citizen Soldier units (Infantry or Cavalry).
c] The necessary number of units will then move adjacent to the building and stand immobilised for a period of time until the capture is complete. Conversion time = Building Footprint Width x 10. i.e.
House (2x2): 2 units for 20 seconds.
Fortress (5x5): 5 units for 50 seconds.
d] As capturing units are immobilised for the specified period, it may behoove the player to have other units in the immediate area to protect them during the process of capture. If a group has been issued the command to Capture, the appropriate number of units will "detach" themselves for that purpose while the rest of the group stands by in the immediate area on Defend stance.
e] Once the Capture sequence has completed the Building conversion, the capturing units revert to their former condition and the building is now replaced with the player's equivalent. The building may now be repaired to bring it up to full functionality if it has suffered damage during the attack.Also an interesting discussion that we used to have as part of the design FAQ (Ken Wood was one of the original game designer):
*How can you have capturing females in the game? That's so sexist!*
Quoted from Ken (with substantial summarisation):
First, I take full personal responsibility for having come up with the idea as one of my very first for the game a couple years ago. I will say that in more than six decades I have loved, admired, and respected women, so my intent was never to demean them... rather to do something with the 'female character' that has never been done before in an RTS game to my knowledge.
The concept can easily be misconstrued as politically incorrect, a slur against womanhood. However, the reason she can be captured is because the Female Citizen (notably, she has full citizenship rights) is a VALUABLE asset in the game.
Recalling that she lived some 2,000 years ago and is in part based upon my experience in real life as it continues even today, these are some of her attributes, she is as are all women a complex 'personality':- "Women's work is never done" (back then, women did a full day's work on the farm like the men, but also without complaint had to feed the family, look after the children, etc). She 'works harder' at economic tasks she can be assigned to than her male counterparts, the Citizen Soldiers (who are a combination of economic and military units).
In performing them, she accomplishes more than the men do. Put her to farming and she brings in more crop. Put her to animal husbandry chores and she brings in more milk. She can also build and repair the Farm Centre, Housing, and Civ Centres as might be required (doesn't perform better, but carries her weight).
2. Represents the sense of 'family' in the game (so the game is not dominated by male units). She is attractive (as much as that's possible in an itty-bitty sprite) but in no way prurient, as it's a fact that the majority of game players are male.
3. Male units will try to 'impress' her when she is around. When she is within LOS of one (or more) male units performing an economic task, they will work as hard as she does, and are more productive than they otherwise would be.
Not only is it historical, but human nature at work. She doesn't even have to work at the task herself; she only has to stand nearby male units cutting wood, or mining, and they will speed up their work.
4. She is valuable, and therefore desireable. She cannot attack, and so you'll need to protect your womenfolk from other civs trying to capitalise on her value. It isn't easy, but she can be captured by another civ and 'assimilated' into the population (probably getting married, raising kids, like women did and do). She becomes a fully-fledged citizen of that civilisation (certainly not a slave).
5. Captured Female Citizens don't count towards your population limit. They don't count towards your population limit (taking up positions that could be used by your own units), and so it's totally to your advantage to capture them.- I hope that this puts to rest any reservations you might have about how we have designed a useful and valuable unit into the game in the form of a female character, with no intention to discriminate.
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Fun read, thanks for sharing
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I think it is all pretty awesome. A+ for creativity, except... ponies? really? I grew up in the era when they first came out and this is what I associate with them:
I can't connect the dots in my head between that image and 0 A.D.
But... that is my problem. Fantastic artwork! I think it would be a fun mod, to mod your mod into a Medieval faction.
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Not sure if this would be something worth pursuing, but I recently posted it in another thread. Thought it was relevant to this discussion:
...there was an idea in the past that you could make a selection in Atlas of multiple entities and save them as a "group". These groups could be then be added to a player's custom pallet of tools. So perhaps it was a collection of trees, rocks, shrubs and bushes - and you define/call that "TemperateGroup01" or something. Atlas saves (or "copies") the x,y (not z) and rotation of each entity/actor into that group xml file. This could then be recalled at any time later and "pasted" onto the terrain, conforming itself to the terrain. The group could be rotated like what is featured in the new alpha release video. The group would conform to the terrain and the z height would be altered for placement as required. I'm not sure if this was documented or implemented, but it might be worth looking into to achieve what I think is what your going after here with this farm idea?
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Money,taxes and caravans
in General Discussion
Posted
Well, we only really had 3... Myself, Erik, and Michael. I can only speak for myself and the transition to Erik... but, I took the helm because I wanted to play a Roman era RTS in a similar vein of AOK with some C&C and RON twists to it. Then I went out and recruited people with a similar vision to help me do just that. Shortly after I got married, I recognized that 0 A.D. wasn't helping my relationship with my bride. So, I recruited Erik to take the administrative role (from gamedev.net? I forget...). He's done a fabulous job since and has stuck with the project longer than I have now.
I'm afraid not. I still have an interest in 0 A.D. succeeding because I gave 6 years of my life to it. But, as a family man now - I don't have time to game anymore. I'm always available to consult though.