Student Created Reference

[Wijitmaker]

Looking great! Some things are easier for me to fix than explain with text. Have a look at the new file I committed (v2a). I really like the new pillar buildings, very stately - good choice. Also the inward sloping roofs - nice!

Here is briefly what I did:

*I added the geometry in the back door for those 2 buildings.

*Fixed the smoothing on the roofs

*Made the Pediments flat

*Fixed some potential zdepth-fighting with the rails

I added some references for you. The roof might be helpful. There are some pillars on the temple you could use - Already UV mapped. Your pillars are pretty high poly and when you have lots like that, it's good to cut down where you can. Also a nice way to cut down on polies is to delete faces that point toward the inner part of the building that nobody would see. Your steps could be simplified, or scaled up - see the steps on the reference temple. Your 2nd stories look good - I threw in the 2 story from the market reference to just put next to some of your buildings.

Great work!

[ewu_swarrington]

I swapped out the pillars for building similarity. Also fixed the size issues for some of the building foundations/ steps. I’d like a final look over before I begin to map.

Also is there a way to affect geometry without it losing its uv information. When I attach the pillars to a building they lose there mapping.

Filename: 068_alt_rome_v2a

Thanks~

Edited February 1, 2008 by ewu_swarrington

[Wijitmaker]

Excellent, I'll look at them in more detail tomorrow

The best way I've found to do pillars is this:

Select the temple - go into editable poly mode and then into element. Select the pillar. Detatch as Object (not as a clone and not as an element).

Next exit the poly mode of the temple and select the pillar. Go to the heirarchy tab and click "affect pivot only" - then click "center to object", drop the z depth down to the bottom if you'd like. Then deselect "affect pivot only"

Next with your column select hold down shift and drag your gizmo, a little dialog will come up and ask you how many copies you want to make. It will then create a line of evenly spaced pillars. (Copy option makes them all unique, Instance option means if you modify one you modify them all (I think), Reference means if you alter the original you alter them all - these options can be useful) Position the pillars where you want them.

Next select the temple and and go to element mode. Go to the "edit geometry section" and then click attatch. A dialog will pop up, go with the default for now. Then click Ok - you should be now good to go

[Wijitmaker]

I checked out the files and fantastic, looks great

Also, feel free to use File=>Merge to pull in the buildings from the reference file and use more parts and pieces from them to make your UV mapping job a little easier.

[ewu_swarrington]

I’ve been reading into the artspec about propping, it looks like most of the other buildings use it for all of the windows and what not.

I was trying to do the same but I’m having issues installing the propping plug-in, when max loads I get an error message saying it’s failed to initialize because its not a valid win32 app . I’m running vista biz 64bit and the 64bit version of max; I dropped the plug-in file in the plug-in folder. I'm wondering if it's because of my glorious 64 bits of awesomeness.

I’ve also attached a render of the first building I’ve mapped for your viewing pleasure.

Anyone’s help is appreciated.

[Wijitmaker]

Unfortunately, the plugin only works for R6. I should have made that more clear in the documentation. The image looks great though!. What defines what is a prop and what isn't is basically what texture it uses. If it is the normal building texture, then it's building, if it uses the fancy texture with all the added stuff would be going to a central prop.

[Mythos_Ruler]

Steven that's really nice. A few things...

• Greek and free-standing Roman temples usually had a footprint that was somewhere between a golden rectangle and 2:1 ratio in proportion. Yours looks rather too long in proportion to the front of the structure.
  
• You'll need columns along the front. Use an even number along the front. Space the columns evenly around the entire structure (columns in the front are spaced the same distance as columns along the sides).
  
• You'll also need to decide on a column style. The Greeks and Romans used 3 styles (called "orders")of temples and each had different looks to their columns: Doric Order (simple, elegant), Ionic Order (understated details), and Corinthian Order (rich, garish). Attached will be a reference image for all three.
  
• Frieze, you need one. It's a flat surface that runs around the entire lip of the roof edge. The frieze was highly decorated for Greek and Roman temples. Doric temples had a frieze that had individual metopes or "little scenes". Ionic temples usually had a continuously decorated frieze scene that wrapped around the entire structure. This also depicted a story. Corinthian temples were different in that their friezes didn't tell a story, but rather were sculpted and decorated in a more symbolic or abstract way. Again, I'll attach many many images for you.
  
• Try to make the roof tiles look smaller. Pack them in. Right now they look a bit stretched and their resolution is showing.
  
• Lastly, the door seems a bit oversized in proportion to the rest of the structure (to say the least). The temple looks about the size of my mom's walk-in closet.
  

I like the render though. Very nice work. Looks similar to the game Caesar or other such similar games.

Other references:

http://www.loc.gov/exhibits/us.capitol/kninety.jpg - Corinthian Order (Romans used this one a lot, because they were rich)

http://faculty.virginia.edu/villagespaces/...8B2.pav-iii.jpg - this is a modern house, but it is a very good example of corinthian architecture.

http://www.odysseyadventures.ca/articles/g...doric_order.GIF - Doric Order

http://earthbunny7.tripod.com/athena/order.jpg - Differences between Ionic and Doric Orders.

http://cache.eb.com/eb/image?id=92899&rendTypeId=34

[ewu_swarrington]

Thanks Mythos, I'll go in and make the edits you listed and post another render when fiished.

[Mythos_Ruler]

Sweet man. Here's also a good in-game shot of the current Hellenic temple. It isn't Roman, but it illustrates a good example of a Doric Temple. I think what we'd like to do is use Doric architecture for Greeks/Hellenes, and Ionian and Corinthian architecture for the Romans.

EDIT: I also found a perfect reference for Roman temples. It's a graphic I made some time ago.

[ewu_swarrington]

I wanted to clarify a few things before I continue to model/ texture map.

I have attached a screenshot of the other reference buildings in my file and while mapping my buildings I tried to match the roof tile size. If I pack in more tiles, like was suggested, it wouldn’t look the same. Should I still do so?

Also I attached a file of the other buildings I had mostly textured before comments were left for me on the forums. Please look at the second temple and tell me if I should just scrap that design and start from scratch.

About the pillars, I used the pillars that were used on the one temple model in my reference file; you can see the temple in the first ref image. I don’t mind making new pillars just for the temple; I need verification before I do so.

The final question I have is with the third image I uploaded. It’s a close up of one of the buildings where I textured the structure’s walls with some of the texture below the brick as a decretive base. I just thought it was astatically pleasing but I want an ok before I leave it like that.

I’ll continue to model/ texture after feedback is given.

I’m sorry for all of the forum posts, and take so long on this project. Just consider it part of my learning curve. I have, however, put a lot of time into this thus far, and I’m having fun.

Thanks guys.

[Wijitmaker]

I am typing from my phone, so I will be breif. Steve I think what you have going is good enough for this task I asigned you to. Michael's request is valid but he will/can create a seperate task for that specific temple. It isn't fair to you to redo something from the start. What you have is great eyecandy (the purpose). It can be used as a shrine.

The texture scale for the roof is great. Keep matching the references. The walls were made to do as you did.

[Mythos_Ruler]

Errr, I've never suggested he start again from scratch. Multiple variations are always good.

PS: Steven, that third building is awesome - the house/apartment.

PPS: I am making a new separate task [118] for the Roman Temple. I hope my posts were helpful anyways.

PPPS: About the darker foundation, it looks good on rougher, non-fancy buildings, but on more formal structures, like Temples and such, it would be better to go for a more refined look.

[ewu_swarrington]

I’ve uploaded ver.3 of my work on svn. Everything has been mapped and I’m ready for some final feedback before I submit it. I was a bit unsure about what, if any, modeling changes should be made between the comments given. So I left most of the designs the same and will wait for the final feedback to make any edits.

I think its about happy dance time

Edited February 8, 2008 by ewu_swarrington

[Wijitmaker]

Nice mapping Steve! I'll take a look when I get home, only thing that looks like it might need some touch up from here is to gain some consistency in the roof tile sizing. We might want to throw some more props around the buildings too like vases, fruit, etc..

[ewu_swarrington]

... consistency in the roof tile sizing. We might want to throw some more props around the buildings too like vases, fruit, etc..

Done and done.

[Wijitmaker]

OK, had a chance to look at them and they good. Just a few final things to tweak. I'd like you to have the brick textures be consistent in scale. There are a few floating arches on some of the sides of walls. If you need to split up a poly to repeat a texture, that is ok too

Again, great work - it has been exciting to see what you have been able to do. Once you make those changes and submit I'll get these exported and ask Michael to put together a screenshot. Lets see how they look in the game!

[Mythos_Ruler]

Indeed. They should look nice.

[ewu_swarrington]

...floating arches on some of the sides of walls.

I feel embarrassed now; I purposely added those arches thinking they were door’s…

Heh, well now that you say “arches” they are funny looking door’s…

I updated the file, funny looking doors are gone. If there is anything else, say so, and I’ll get to it. Sounds like I’m ready to start my next task. I’m going to do task 0060 Deer, I don’t know if I need to wait for your guys ok to start so I’ll wait until I get the final word on this project.

Thanks!

[Wijitmaker]

hehe, no worries.

Deer? That is a good choice. Challenging though because it requires animation. We have some meshes already created, so basically requires animation. I'll get the task created for you though today hopefully.

[Wijitmaker]

Steve, I didn't get the building final tweaks done - but I uploaded to SVN what I've been doing.

I also have your deer task created for you.

I have all day tomorrow (wife doesn't get home till 9) to work on these - Michael and I should get a screenshot for you by the end of the week.

[Mythos_Ruler]

Hey m8! Here's how they look in-game after Jason's quick and dirty tweaking.

You can see how they match up and blend with the existing structures and nature.

[ewu_swarrington]

You can see how they match up and blend with the existing structures and nature.

I'm glad the turned out ok, I see some of the changes that were made and I'll keep the design changes in mind for future projects.

Its been fun

[Aeros]

Saw these just now, I have to say, congrats Steven, you know you're doing well if the art looks better than what we had before.

These are as good as we could've dreamed for, and you can see style wise they fit exactly into the game, that was the most important detail. Great work!

(You can see the advantage to doing work like this instead of just misc assignments...we really are happy when we see good work! )

Edited February 20, 2008 by Aeros