ProPlayer

Thank you @real_tabasco_sauce for your work! Yes, I missed the onager population cost. Regarding the capture strength, I hovered over the structure tree of mercenaries and it showed 2.5, but yes, their building and the units itself show the correct value. Great to see a discussing evolving. @DakaraCurrently, the consensus is that archers are too weak, no? @ffm2showed statistics, that archer civs are not often taken and they perform badly. So the question is how to buff them. I agree, a careful approach is better. Maybe testing in the community mod is best.

Balance Suggestions (Civ by Civ & General) Athenians Long Wall Tech Currently: Available only in P3, researched at the Council (60s). In practice, this means it’s not available until ~min 14–15, which makes walls in neutral territory before min 16 unrealistic. Suggestion: Available in P2 (at Civic Center or Market). Cost: 400 stone → 150 stone. Research time: 60s → 25s. Gymnasium Cost Question: Why is it cheaper than Han’s Academy or the Syssition? Suggestion: If not a civ bonus, increase cost to 150 stone + 150 metal. Britons Dogs Currently: Stronger side. Suggestion: Hack damage: 7 → 6.5. Consider armor upgrade tech (P2 or P3). Carthaginians Colonization Tech Currently: Hardly used; 200 metal in P1/P2 is too costly, and in P3 houses are usually already built. Suggestion: Cost 200 wood + 200 metal → 200 wood + 150 stone, available in P2. Gauls Bonuses Current advantages: 15% reduced forge costs. Additional farm tech. Eco hero. Small houses. Faster structure build time (huge eco advantage). Wide spectrum of champions (very flexible). Suggestion: Nerf eco bonuses (similar to Ptolemies, who pay with slower build times). Reduce capture value of small houses. Fanatics Currently: Same attack as spear champs, but less armor. Faster than spear champs. Stronger than metal spear champs in most situations (except 1v1 vs other infantry champs). Suggestion: Similar treatment as Persian infantry champs - If kept cheap, nerf attack (not only armor). Keep cost as is, and keep them in P2 for strategic diversity. Han Skipped (already reworked in community mod). Kushites Clubmen Currently: 60 metal but very weak (especially armor). Suggestion: Option 1: Hack armor 19% → 27%. Option 2 (preferred): Speed 9.5 → 11. Temple Guard Champions Currently: Limited by stone cost of temples (hard to mass more than 1–2). Suggestion: Napatan temple guard build time 15s → 10s. Elephant Hero Bonus Currently: Awkward to use effectively. Ptolemies Currently: P3 techs are often already researched; civ plays slowly. Suggestion: Allow Library in P2. Romans Marian Reforms Currently: Very strong in 1v1, potentially stronger than will to fight. Suggestion: Nerf. Siege Population Cost Currently: Catapult = 3 pop Bolt shooter = 2 pop Onager = 6 pop Onagers are cheap but not massable, while bolts outperform them in large numbers. Suggestion: Onager population 6 → 4. Spartans Syssition Cost Currently: Awkward in P1 (similar to the Kushite pyramid in the past). Leaves 50 metal if eco tech (100 metal) is researched, blocking champion production. Suggestion: Cost 150 stone + 150 metal → 200 stone + 100 metal. Krypteia Tech Currently: Located in champion building; awkward for rush/all-in. Suggestion: Move tech to Syssition, reduce research time 50s → 40s. General Balance Capture System Currently: Large houses = 550, small houses = 500 (small houses are OP). Suggestion: Large = 550, Small = 350. Suggestion: Units which have more experience or higher rank, like mercenaries or Skiritai should have higher capture strength. Elephant stables and arsenals are considerably too easy to capture when garrisoned. Can it be that 1 ram or 1 elephant only count as a single unit for capture point regeneration? Fanatics & Immortals Capture value: 5 → 3.5 (since they are cheaper/faster). Conscription Cost: 500 food → 400 food. Availability: P2. Theatron Currently: More expensive than fort, longer build, easy to capture, rarely used. Suggestion: Cost = 200 wood + 400 stone, Build time = 300s. Spear & Pike Champions (except fanatics) Currently: Rarely used in high-level play (1400+). Example: Athenians prefer sword champs (earlier + dock training). Seleucids prefer sword champs over pikes. Suggestion: Clearer role differentiation. Strong cav counter (e.g. 4× vs cav instead of 2.5 x). Increase armor for pike and spear champions. Tower Techs Currently: Too expensive (600–750 resources each). Making more towers instead is considerably cheaper. Suggestion: Crenellation = 200 stone + 200 metal. Arrow shooters = 250 wood + 200 metal. Sturdy foundations = 350 stone. Archers Currently: Weak compared to other ranged. Suggestion: Slight buff (5-10%) to stats or Archery Training tech. Elephants Currently: Not viable or not often seen in Pro 1x1 or TG for Kush, Ptolemies, Seleucids (only used with Mauryas, since stables are available in P2). Suggestion: Kushites: Elephant Stables in P2. Cost: 200 wood + 200 stone → 250–275 wood + 100 stone. Battlefield Medicine Currently: Costs 1000 food + 250 metal; applies only to idle units (not walking). Unused. Suggestion: Cost 1000f → 250f. Or regeneration +1 instead of +0.5. Aura Buildings Iberian Monument: 100 stone + 100 metal, P2, +20% dmg, 120s build. Kushite Pyramid: 450 stone + 150 metal, P3, 300s build. Suggestion: Kushite Pyramid → 200s build, 200 stone + 100 metal. Civic Center Balanced in P1, weak in P3. Suggestion: Increase attack in P3. Or allow forge arrow techs to apply to buildings. Ships Currently: Ram ships one-shot fishing ships → water battles snowball. Suggestion: Give fishing ships more armor (not one-shot). Reduce ram attack frequency. Wonders Glorious Expansion Tech Research time: 120s → 60s (since wonder itself is slow to build). Barter Suggestion: Decrease efficiency by 10%. Add tech: +15% barter efficiency, cost = 500 metal, 50s research. Siege Techs Currently: Extremely expensive. +25% health = 600 metal. -20% production = 600 wood. +25% attack = 800 wood + 500 metal. -40% unpack time = 800 food. Suggestion: Reduce costs by 50%. These are just suggestions, and I’m curious to see what other experienced players think. Do you agree with some of these changes? Are there better alternatives? Looking forward to hearing perspectives from fellow 1400+ players.