Olorin
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Posts posted by Olorin
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@Taron
True that! The unbelievable heroism of those fighting Morgoth is what made the books so memorable. Though Morgoth's army has such elite units and soooooo many orcs, there were still the heroes of the free peoples of Middle-earth to stand against them and often accomplish deeds at impossible odds.
That's exactly why I want to have truly elite powers and abilities on the side of the free peoples of Middle-earth (particularly those peoples of the first age), because the greatest of the good heroes, though it might have seemed impossible, at times could summon such super-human (or super-elf) might that the impossible odds were crushed to dust, and the display of heroism and courage rising where it was least expected, whether futile or not, left you in awe.
Maybe I'm a romantic, but I want to keep that theme pure. The developers of TLA are purists. For me, the purest theme in Tolkien's works was the strength of those who became heroes because their unwavering efforts seemed futile, but in the end, even if success was not achieved, replaced any feelings of doubt with a feeling of aweing reverence.
That's the aesthetic appeal I want to maintain. I want the heroes of the good side to be able to fight and beat the heroes of the evil side. I want orcs to flee before Fingolfin while he's lit up like a pissed off 2 million watt light bulb. I want face Gothmog with Ecthelion, and, at the very least, be beaten knowing that TLA held the heroes of the good side in very high regards.
I want to SEE the heroism of the books kept pure in The Last Alliance.
That's the aesthetic appeal I was talking about.
So, how good are the heroes of the good side gunna be? Is it going to take whole armies comprised of leaders and elites and soldiers to take down a dragon or a balrog, while Morgoth battles his truly formidable enemy--his lack of trees? Or will leaders and heroes occasionally be capable of showing off something a little extra in traditional, Tolkien-style, hero-to-demon combat?
Faithfully,
Jeremy
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Hey, thanks for that reputation boost, Black Op. Why did I get it exactly? Is is just the developers that determine reputation. You could increase my reputation more if you pleased? I imagine it could also be decreased at a whim. Ooooh, scary.
Anyways, just wandering how and why it went up. I can't seem to find anything I want in these forums. Maybe the site could have a search engine to look through the archives one day? That would definately hinder my reputation gaining. I wouldn't post nearly as much. Thanks again,
Jeremy
And again, I'm really looking forward to this game, so don't any of you important developers die on me or anything! I would NOT approve!
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You know, I don't think Valar or Maiar were referred to as such until entering into Ea and creating Arda. I believe those who were most powerful which descended into Ea were named Valar, which does indeed mean "Powers of the WORLD". So Valar of Arda are the only valar I think.
I like that list of Adam's. It was Adam's, wasn't it? The practical one that's difficult to refute for possibility of inaccuracies or repetition in meaning of names.
Is that list the one being used now? Seems as though it is. It's very good.
,Olorin
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Sorry, I forgot something.
Balrogs have fire streaming off their bodies. Of course they should be immune to fire. I'm sure TLA has worked all of that out already. I'll leave it to the experts.
,Olorin
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The Flame of Anor is definately not talking about the Ring Narya (it makes no real sense that Gandalf would be a servant of the ring that obviously, if anything, served him, and Narya had nothing to do Anor). The topic has received much debate over the years, but it is obviously, if one relaxes and stops disecting the phrase, a reference to Gandalf's service to Valar and their holy power. And secret fire is much the same, plainly, as I'm convinced, a metaphor for the "Flame Imperishable", the force of life and free will which Illuvatar used to make living things. You could go very deep into it and start speaking of things about a universal soul, and the will of God being inherent in all life, and all sorts of metaphysical mumbo-jumbo, but, simply, put, Gandalf's just saying, "hey, I'm a good guy, and there are some pretty big good guys backing my cause, so you're not gonna win this one."
Haha. And there's my two cents.
,Olorin
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Yes, alright. I'll give up this one. I'll leave it to TLA to make the TLA. I suppose you guys know what you're doing, afterall. And I'm sure that simply being the Noldor or the Sindar will be appealing in itself. So long as the game is fun to play, I doubt that there will be many complaints from Tolkien fans, whether they be fans of Morgoth or Edain or Eldar or Naugrim. I personally love the Sindar, and I doubt that I'll be changing my mind just because I can't have anything big or scary to go battling dragons and Maia head-on. And I'm sure that other fans will remain true to the races of which they are fans and play the game with them until the end. And, of course, being strictly by the books is what makes TLA interesting. If it is by the books, how could players not be fans of the races of which they were most fond in the text?
By the books it is then. But I expect to be seeing some very unique special abilities and fantastic powers from the good races.
p.s. It's a pity Beleg Strongbow won't be a leader (though it's easy to understand why). He really was cool.
Faithfully,
Olorin
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Only the leaders, eh? Oh well, that's a pity. I suppose you have to pick and choose though. There are so many heroes. Leaders was a good idea. And the editor bit is very nice touch.
Thanks,
Olorin
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Alright, I'm becoming obsessive. This is the last post of the day! No more! I can quit anytime I want I tell ya!
K, here goes. As I've already expressed, Morgoth's army is way too cool and widely varied. And I've just remembered that Morgoth's Hunters can recruit animals as well as units from other civs. If Morgoth can recruit outsiders like this, then can't we have other forces be able to recruit other entities as well? I've mentioned it before, and I know that it might be refuted with great enthusiasm, but shouldn't the eagles help some of the good races? Particularly the Noldor. And Why shouldn't the ents temporarily be recruited by elves of the forests? It would add the extra spunk that the good civilizations need to possess the appeal of Morgoth's too-cool army.
Perhaps we should have a poll, asking if summoning such creatures for short periods of time under certain circumstances would be appropriate? It would definately allow for some fun, and make the goodie armies appear less inferior than the winged, clawing, firey, whipping, scaly, gigantic, snorting, clashing, vast, corrupted, we're-all-regular-animals-and-Noldor-now-enthralled-by-the-dark-lord-and-gee-I-bet-you-wish-you-had-the-ability-to-do-something-so-cool-to-make-your-army-better, really, really scary FORCES OF MORGOTH.
I think I'll start a poll tomorrow, if there are no protests against it.
Thanks for reading my post,
Olorin
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I have to put in my two cents on this one. I like the idea of having a cheat code that causes a vala to appear and wipe out all your enemies. What's the point of having a cheat code to win anyway? If you want to win without playing, then there is no point in getting the game at all. But if something extra were to happen when you used a cheat, it would be worth trying out even if you didn't want to use the cheat. It's just a trick that's worth showing whomever you know who plays the game. I'd personally love to introduce my friends to the game and then type something in and watch the expressions on their faces when Manwe appeared. Cheats aren't meant to be serious. In fact, the only cheats I'd be interested in were cheats that added something extra for a bit of fun. Like the valar, or . . . pink umbrellas.
Olorin
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Thanks for the feedback. Pity about the eagles. I would have liked to have another civ with winged units. You're right though. By the books, of course. I suppose you could have balrogs and dragons countered with the ineffeciency of orcs. That would be a very easy solution.
And I suppose hiding and that elf supershot and other such abilities makes the other races worth having (even if they aren't 4 stories tall with wings :-( )
I do have a question on heroes still, however. I know that there are 3 leaders, one elected leader at a time. But are there not other heroes from the books that can simultaneously exist in an army? It would, after all, be a pity to leave so many good characters out of a game based on stories made famous because of its wonderful characters and all their abilities.
Thanks in advance again,
Olorin
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First off, I'd like to say I hope no one is annoyed by my overzealous flood of posts. I'm very excited about the game, and, despite any superfluous critisizm, I'm very pleased with the actions of TLA developers. I hope my ridiculous quantity of posts does not discourage forrumers from taking me seriously. I'm very serious, whatever my topic might be.
Now, I'd like to know, since it's been a pet peave of mine in the past with other RTS's, if you're in a situation where you need to destroy a building or similar structure, can you re-collect at least a percentage of resources from which the structure was comprised? Similarly, if your opponent destroys one of your catapults, can you gather some of the wood from which it was built? If this is the case, then I would assume that it would work just as well the other way around, that is, you gathering wood from you opponent's smashed catapult?
Thanks in advance,
Olorin
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They mean Gothmog the Lieutenant of Minis Morgul, not the King of Balrogs, Gothmog.
In the movies the Gothmog of the third age was an orc with a messed up head and one eye, but Tolkien never actually specified his race.
,Olorin
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Obviously, the developers will make all the playable civilizations in the game have a certain amount of over-all equality. The forces must all be equally powerful for such games as skirmishes and multiplayer battles and such. And so each race will have different, unique abilities and attributes making them all equally pleasing to play with, though all characteristicly unique.
But this does not yet seem to be the case. While, the civilizations will no doubt all be equally efficient at obtaining victory over any other given civilization, there currently seems to be a lack of aesthetic balance amongst the civilazations. Simply put, Morgoth's forces are ridiculously cool, and range from very cheap orc soldier, to 4 story tall firey demon to giant, scaly, flying serpant. The military contrast is amazing, whereas the other forces seem to manifest there military might in only a limited number of forms. Visible aesthetic balance amongst the things each civ can possess is essential for maintaining lasting appeal, especially in a game like this where all the sides are obviously meant to be equal. And don't think that by giving elves, dwarves, and men handicaps or capping the number of balrogs that can be in the battle at a given time will change aesthetics. One might as well have a window appear on the game screen saying, "Sorry for the inconvenience, but Morgoth's army, with its immense range of vastly varrying troops, is naturally superior to your city of undifferentiated, average-looking people armed with only a limited number of powers and special weapons. We will now make Morgoth's civ less intimidating by diminishing the might of the elite portion of his army, for your gaming pleasure."
It's not very much fun. And the Sindar and Noldor, in particular, I find a bit bland in contrast with one another. They are balanced, yes. But they are also almost identical. However, they were nearly the same people in the books, and it's even stated in the Silmarillion that they were welded into one people. But this diminishes appeal. After all, the Sindar and the Noldor were different people. They succeeded and failed in battles for different reasons and had different tactics and behaviors and abilities. Different things happened to each of these races. The noldor were stronger and smarter, better miners and craftsmen. They even had the help of the eagles at times (an air unit that might be added to the game to balance an appeal that Morgoth's forces currently solely dominate). The sindar were stealthy and masters of music. It was said that many had no dwelling at all, but walked where they would, singing as they went. Perhaps the sindar don't need many houses to expand population??? And of course, they had Melian, the Maia, and her girdle, which made Doriath INVISIBLE to foes.
And, even though we have a balrog cap, there are still a vast number of units on Morgoth's side which are very powerful. And if we cap a unit for one civ, then we have to put caps on other civs as well, or it diminishes aesthetic balance. It's that window on the game screen telling you your army is inferior again. Then again, maybe the other civs don't caps, because there are still heroes to consider. Obviously there is only a handful of heroes for each civ. That in itself is a cap. And, considering the great amount of heroes that other races had compared to heroes in Morgoth's forces, different numbers of heroes for each civ could round out the average soldiers and elite units. There might be many, many orcs for example, which are cheap to make, but only a few balrogs, and a couple of heroes, while the Noldor have better, more expensive small units in lesser quantities, and more heroes to create at once to contend with the number of balrogs.
I implore the developers to not allow any single civ to be dominant in all military ranges. Morgoht's force must not be the only force to have flying units and totally superior elite units, while all the other forces have relatively similar ranges, with nothing obvious to show off over the other races. If Morgoth is solely and totally unique in one respect, then all other civs must be totally and solely unique in another respect, or appeal for Morgoth's force will dimish the appeal for other civs.
Thanks for reading this far (you must have as much free time as I do),
Olorin
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The only icons I am able to click on in Races/Civilazations under the Game Info section of the site are the first of each age, by which I mean the top-left-most icon of each age, namely the dwarves and, farther down, the druedain. Is it just my computer?
I'd like to view the info on the other races.
Thanks,
Olorin
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Hello. I was reading over info on mining and was curious as to what was meant by tunnling. Am I to understand that there will be an underground map, with actual, visible tunnles? And, if this is indeed the case, will different tunnles from different civs be able to intersect one another? Could, for example, a dwarf unit accidently dig into a tunnel filled with orc miners? That could add quite a bit of new dimension for the game.
Also, I believe there will be heroes in the game. How will the last alliance handle the creation of such heroes. And, furthermore, should I assume that there will be certain heroes from the books (i.e. Gothmog, Thingol, Beleg, Beren, Fingolfin, etc.)? Pleeeeease tell me it's true! How I would so love to see my old favorite literary characters leading armies and waging war on a battlefield all my own.
Thanks yet again,
Olorin (Jeremy)
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Hello again! Does anyone have any idea how long this game will take to release? I'm supposing someone might be able to give me a very rough estimate. Also, is there any news as to when some previews or demos might be released. I suppose it will be considerabley long time.
Thanks much,
Jeremy
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Hello. I'm new here, and I'm very excited about this game, though I'm not a huge fan of most games. I do like RTS's however, and I particularly enjoy short skirmishes. Will the game have the option of allowing the player to pick a civ and fight another civ in a single, full-scale battle to the death?
I'm sure it would, but just have to be sure.
Thanks,
Jeremy
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Hello. My name is Jeremy Salisbury, but you can call me Olorin. Forgive me for not taking the time to come up with a more original name, but who couldn't like Olorin anyway?
Well, about me: I'm obsessed with Tolkien's works. I'm obsessed with the mere concept of fantasy in general, but Tolkien's works are the most proufound and fantastic of fantasies. And as a result of that simple fact, I've come close to memorizing all the details of the histories of Arda, particularly those preceding the third age. My favorite story, though "favorite" falls much too short of my clinical obsession, is the tale of Beren and Luthien.
I'd love to be involved in this project as much as my schedule might allow. Though I lack experience, I can design, paint, or draw about anything.
I sincerely hope that the community will find me worth having,
Olorin
When can I play?
in General TLA Discussion
Posted
Forgive me, for I would imagine that anyone who could answer my question hears it all too often. But I must ask, and have asked before, though never so frankly, how long will it take before the game is complete and I can try it out? Yes, yes, no one really knows at the moment, but give me a nice round number to set my mind at ease. How many YEARS would you GUESS it would be? Half a decade? Less? More? Any guesses at all?
Thanks very much,
Olorin