AbdelMuhamar

ok I will work on it. i'll be back when I have some stuff.

But then, if you give them Insulae in the city phase, it would be only fair to give the celts more than just longhouse in the city phase. The gap is just too huge otherwise.

No it's not what I meant. It's not about size, it's about proportions. In terms of proportions the celtic temple really look ''small''. It's about the proportions in the building. If you put these buildings into real life, the celtic temple would be way smaller than the other temple, even if the in-game model is the same size. Yeah I understand your point about gameplay,diversity... However it's unfair to sacrifice the celts and give them the barbarian role/look. They would still have a distinct look if you gave them a more accurate and civilized look. I don't see how it is a necessity to have one faction take the role of the ''less civilized''. Also, giving them a more refined look will help them to differ from the future germans. The celts always take the role of the unrefined barbarian in almost all commercials video games, I hoped (and still hope) that 0ad would be different in this area.

I understand. Yet, I still look like some kind of ''small time'' temple. I'm curious to know on which temple it's based (i'm not trying to sound arrogant or mean here ) ? Because the real sanctuary itself might have been a small temple for that time. So it would be unfair to depict them with one of their poorest temple while you give the other civs their rich temples models. And in the case where this was a big temple that time, I find it surprisingly lacking in terms of art and decorations. It barely looks like a temple. What I'm meaning is that it's not because you use a real life model that it is representative of all the temples of that time. In fact, I think that this temple is definitively not representative of all the other temples of wealthy realms such as the Averni. Also since the temple you used must be completely in ruins today, and most of the decorations, artwork, columns... have probably disappeared with the time (pillage, erosion...), add to that that there is probably not much descriptions of how it looked at the time. So in the end, if my hypothesis is correct, it was up to you guys to decide wether to go on with a primitive look or an advanced look. You guys have done a very good job with this game, and sometimes I even feel bad about criticizing it. I really love what you did with the other civilizations, and they really look as great as I imagined them. But in that case I really think that something must be done because there is a big amount of unfairness. The gauls Are a little left out when it comes to the greatness.

I agree about the multi floored buildings, but you can't deny that the other civs buildings look proportionally bigger and higher than the Gauls. A more simplified version of the civic center (and also smaller in-game for obvious reasons) would definitively be fair. Overall, the Gauls house are unfairly primitive when you compare them to the others (any other) and even the longhouses wouldn't completely solve the problem. For the city phase, they need finer houses. Decorations will help A LOT, but won't solve everything, overall, some of the 3d models must be slightly changed : some buildings (not all) should look neater, with more perfect shapes and bigger in proportions. More majesty should be given. They must have a more urban design instead of their current rural design.

That. Along with other buildings modifications for buildings like the civic center, temple... I also think the civic center current model should be used as late Tier Houses for the gauls, Because it really just looks like the house of a wealthy family. Apart from the civic center, I think all the other buildings model should not be completely changed, they should just be improved : they just have to look neater, have finer artwork as decorations, columns, more floors...

I've been thinking an searching : definitively , the error the designer commited is that they gave the gauls rural buildings instead of urban buildings. Gauls urban buildings were far more bigger and mainly made of stone and wood, with many roofs made of wood. They were also far more beautiful, delicate when it came to the shapes. So you depicted the gauls with their rural buildings while at the same time you gave all the other their urban buildings.

oops sorry, I edited. Thanks

I have those reference and images. For now i could only found a few pics on the internet, as the subject is not as popular today as it was before. But I have many books and pictures at my home that I could scan : here is a rough depiction of bibactre, made by archeologists : http://imageshack.us...analdebibr.jpg/ At first I thought it was a medieval town, due to the sizes of the houses and their massive courts. Here is link website that someone send me : it's a gallician town (north spain and celts). http://marisoccidua....cribrao-de-las/ You can see by the ruins that most of the foundations and wall were made of stones. The density of the ruins show also that the town was very urbanized, as much as a roman town I would say. The last pic show the massive proportions of the town. And this wasn't even a big town for the time. another pic of the walls : http://en.wikipedia....rao_de_Las.jpg. You can see that they are well organized, the edges and shapes are perfect, it's everything but chaotic, proportions seems also big when you look at the extensive network. I could take the time to find more pics, I will do it later. Overall you can even use common sense : why would a civilization smith things as fine like this : http://www.heritaged.../BATTERSEA1.jpg or like this http://www.historyfo...gaulstorque.jpg, http://en.wikipedia....rade_helmet.jpg, http://en.wikipedia....rigitteCelt.jpg in their every day life then live in things like these : http://sciondevelopm...ngs/houses.jpg. Why would vikings who build these : http://0.tqn.com/d/a...novgorod-at.gif, have less primitive infrastructures than the celts. Your ''most well-known aspects of a civilization'' are more a pack popular beliefs and cliche depictions in the case of the celts ( I don't want to sound harsh, and don't take it ''harshly'', i'm not trying to be mean or something ). And when I see the celts buildings I can't help but think of asterix's village. ********************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************* ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ********************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************* The truth is : The design of the celts buildings is based on their rural models, you depicted the rural celts building of that time. At the same time, you gave the other civilization the urban models. Which means you depicted the carthaginians urban buildings for example. So when you designed the buildings you used countryside celtic buildings as an inspiration. But you used cities buildings as an inspiration for the other factions. This is what I find unfair. I am not sure if what i wrote make sense, so I will resume it one more time : -in 0ad a celtic town is based on how a celtic VILLAGE looked back then. -a roman town is based on how a roman CITY looked back then. (i put it in red because i think it really summarize my point) ********************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************** ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- *********************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************

So, any other suggestions from the others?

Sounds like a good plan. I'll think about some more precise suggestions for the buildings. Well the first one that comes to my mind is : -add more decorations and art -replace the fleshed heads by head skulls -The huts are only for the village phase -make the civic center look bigger : right now it looks like a big house. Kind of small when you know that some cities had over 100K inhabitant. The model for the civic center could almost be used for the last phase houses. It should look more imposing overall, and also have more low relief. I think the whole model for the civic center should be changed. It looks too much ''small time'' for a civic center. Make it more complex, like the other ones. -overall put some more low relief on the walls, even on the roofs. -about the roofs, most of them were made of straw, yes, but you would expect some of the richest people or the important buildings to have nicer roofs. So maybe the market, civic center and especially the temple could have some wooden parts on the roofs, where they could be some decorations. - More sculptures around. Two rocks with some basic drawing on them are definitively not state of the art... art. -the top of the walls : why are the wall fences looks so chaotic? Why aren't the walls perfectly made like all the other civs? Why does it have to always look so poorly constructed? -market : market looks too small. It should have more drapery, wall covering. It should have several floors. - temple : make it look more like an actual temple, a place of knowledge. This is were there should be the more low relief, columns, sculptures. It should be the most refined buildings of all, because it is often the heart of a civilization. It should have Have more height. It should be made mostly of stone and woods, not straw. Of all the building, this should be the nicest. In general, the more important things, and also the simplest and quickest to change : 1. Overall, everything should be more colorful. They were master dyers, show it : more drapery, more paintings. Definitively MORE paintings. The whole Celtic town really lacks color right now. It looks mourn, 2. Neater feeling : shapes more perfect, the overall buildings should look more perfectly done, no errors, no holes, no stuff lying around. None of the other civilizations look that messy, celts weren't more messy than any other. 3. More height to some of the buildings : The market, civic center and maybe some others could have one more floor or two. That was all I could come up to for now, but i thinks that's a start. I will try to be even more specific after that. PS : I also forgot the docks : it looks too small again, and way too rudimentary for a place where you build some of the biggest ship of the time (think venetii).

Hum... that's a good question. My guess would be the Brythonic Celts, since I never heard that the gauls were particularly known for their war dogs. But I could be wrong. Now, about the celtic buildings, having played all day, I definitively think that they are unfairly rudimentary compared to all the other civs. So they could be reworked a bit. I know this kind of things takes a lot of times, so what we could do is just to put it in the list of things to do in an undetermined future. But at least we should put it. So that it won't be forgotten.

Yep this I agree. This chain mail propagated to the other civs. Yet the fact that they invented chain mails means that they were pretty much the experts when it came to smithing so they still forged better quality equipement. However not every celtic warrior had access to them since their armies lacked the organisation of other civlizations of that time, so there was never any rigorous plan to equip everybody. However like everyone today has their grandfather gun hanging around in a basement, every celts had some old weapons lying around in their houses, coming from someone in the family who was a warrior.

no i've actually got nothing really against round huts. The poorer celts did lived in round huts, but only the poorer. The middle class and the citizen build mostly bigger houses. What I don't like about the overall design is what I already explained : it's a bit disappointing when you compare them to the other civilizations. The celts buildings looks like village buildings. Just look at their civic center and compare them to any other civ's ones : the civic center looks like a simple big house. There is also a clear lack of artwork (there are some primitive one) or overall greatness that the other civs buildings has. The celtic settlements overall look like a village while the others civ's settlements looks like actual cities. Again, the military structures are fine, but you should consider actually making some building more...imposing, both in finesse and size (not the model size on the map but the proportions in the models). Not everything has to be changed, as the overall textures and shapes feel celtic, but more finesse should be added, as well as making things more imposing, more ''glorious''. PS: Having the huts only in the village phase is a good idea

Yeah I get that there are more important priorities But we can plan a brainstorming for the celts. And at least put a reminder for the future about improving them. I don't want this thread to be forgotten 1 month later. So maybe we should put in the task list : brainstorm for improvement of celtic building.