Jump to content

Suggestion - 0ad should allow Team Registrations and Team Ratings.


nz_
 Share

Recommended Posts

Team registrations

Team registrations would allow development of leagues and a lot of fun.

A lot of known players play 0ad in teams everyday. In fact, most of the fun games are played in teams. By allowing players to register in teams with a condition that the players in the team each must have at least 1300 ratings and having played at least 100 1v1 games with known players, across 3 months, would reduce duplicate account creation.

There will be a value to maintain your 1v1 ratings and a price  on account names. This would allow development of good teams and balanced, fun multiplayer games.

Team ratings

When team registrations are curated, the games would be played without disruption, rage quits, etc. This would give importance to team ratings. An algorithm must be developed to assign team ratings. In particular, ratings must decline if the team does not play for long time. (This should be the case even with 1v1 games.)

 

 

 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I disagree with some points:
1300 minimum (league could also be open for all skill levels)
100 games seems too much, could also be 20 or something

limited to 3 months might also be to complicated, you could remove that

0AD is free, so having one account should also be free.

It's not necessary to let rating decline, as players can keep their skill level over a long time even when they dont play rated. Why not just treat ratings as Lichess does? If someone does not play rated, the uncertainty of the rating increases. After a weak or so, the player gets removed from leaderbords, and when uncertainty reaches a certain level, the rating gets marked with a question mark, so you can see that its very uncertain. Playing rated reduces the uncertainty.

+1 for team leagues and rated team games

Theoretically the 1v1 rating and the team rating of each account could also be identically. I think Age of Mythology does it like that. And theoretically its not necessary to register teams for rated team games. Just make sure that your team mates are no rage quitters if you play rated....

Edited by Player of 0AD
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, nz_ said:

Team registrations

Team registrations would allow development of leagues and a lot of fun.

A lot of known players play 0ad in teams everyday. In fact, most of the fun games are played in teams. By allowing players to register in teams with a condition that the players in the team each must have at least 1300 ratings and having played at least 100 1v1 games with known players, across 3 months, would reduce duplicate account creation.

There will be a value to maintain your 1v1 ratings and a price  on account names. This would allow development of good teams and balanced, fun multiplayer games.

Team ratings

When team registrations are curated, the games would be played without disruption, rage quits, etc. This would give importance to team ratings. An algorithm must be developed to assign team ratings. In particular, ratings must decline if the team does not play for long time. (This should be the case even with 1v1 games.)

 

 

 

Or we can let players form clans themselves, like what happens in most FPS games.

Sometimes 2 or 3 players want to be in the same team because they are all on discord or because they are siblings.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Player of 0AD said:

I disagree with some points:
1300 minimum (league could also be open for all skill levels)
100 games seems too much, could also be 20 or something

limited to 3 months might also be to complicated, you could remove that

0AD is free, so having one account should also be free.

It's not necessary to let rating decline, as players can keep their skill level over a long time even when they dont play rated. Why not just treat ratings as Lichess does? If someone does not play rated, the uncertainty of the rating increases. After a weak or so, the player gets removed from leaderbords, and when uncertainty reaches a certain level, the rating gets marked with a question mark, so you can see that its very uncertain. Playing rated reduces the uncertainty.

+1 for team leagues and rated team games

Theoretically the 1v1 rating and the team rating of each account could also be identically. I think Age of Mythology does it like that. And theoretically its not necessary to register teams for rated team games. Just make sure that your team mates are no rage quitters if you play rated....

Agree with your suggestions.

Players form multiple accounts and then dupe the TGs as poorly rated players while actually they are smurfs leading to imbalance, spoiling the fun. 

Even now  most hosts do not allow poorly rated players to play with them. So, agree that we could have multiple leagues for multiple rating levels. But it is important that ratings are assigned properly and there is a value to it. Players should take pride in their ratings and it should be difficult to earn.

The objective is to make games more fun. I would say 50% of games end poorly because of imbalance. Also TG is a different skill compared to 1v1 and static team ratings will help players develop those skills.

The uncertainty in ratings is a good idea and could be used as Lichess does.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Sevda said:

Or we can let players form clans themselves, like what happens in most FPS games.

Sometimes 2 or 3 players want to be in the same team because they are all on discord or because they are siblings.

Team ratings would motivate clan formation.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, Stan` said:

@Dunedan What do we need for 2v2 and 4v4 rankings?

First of all there needs to be a consensus how this should work. Should there be one rating or one for 1vs1 and one for multiplayer games? Also I'm not sure how good results for rating multiplayer games would be with the current ELO implementation. Maybe it'd make sense to switch to another rating algorithm for that.

Once all these details are clarified it's just a matter of enabling/implementing the necessary support in EcheLOn and enable sending of game reports for multiplayer games with more than 2 players in pyrogenesis.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 minutes ago, Dunedan said:

First of all there needs to be a consensus how this should work. Should there be one rating or one for 1vs1 and one for multiplayer games? Also I'm not sure how good results for rating multiplayer games would be with the current ELO implementation. Maybe it'd make sense to switch to another rating algorithm for that.

Once all these details are clarified it's just a matter of enabling/implementing the necessary support in EcheLOn and enable sending of game reports for multiplayer games with more than 2 players in pyrogenesis.

Yeah IMHO we should only rate 2v2 3v3 and 4v4 as three different ratings as initially suggested in the ticket linked above. But I don't know about the specifity mentionned there with regards to how long players should stay in the game for reports to be sent.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

17 minutes ago, Dunedan said:

First of all there needs to be a consensus how this should work. Should there be one rating or one for 1vs1 and one for multiplayer games? Also I'm not sure how good results for rating multiplayer games would be with the current ELO implementation. Maybe it'd make sense to switch to another rating algorithm for that.

Once all these details are clarified it's just a matter of enabling/implementing the necessary support in EcheLOn and enable sending of game reports for multiplayer games with more than 2 players in pyrogenesis.

I think there is a general consensus that something should be done for that. Also something about ratings that are not up to date.

However, I don't think anyone can tell now what's the best course of action.

If players are presented with a solution that looks more satisfactory (in terms of computed ratings) than the previous one, they will accept it.

also I guess that more than one rating system could be proposed at the same time, for trial periods.

I'm proficient in python and in statistics, so I can mantain the lobby-bots part, if needed.

3 minutes ago, Stan` said:

But I don't know about the specifity mentionned there with regards to how long players should stay in the game for reports to be sent.

why should that be different than in 1v1? one can make unrated TGs anyway.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, alre said:

why should that be different than in 1v1? one can make unrated TGs anyway.

There was some issue mentioned in the ticket. I don't know the specifics

8 minutes ago, alre said:

 

I'm proficient in python and in statistics, so I can mantain the lobby-bots part, if needed.

14 minutes ago, Stan` said:

I suppose you could look at the repo on github and make some PRs :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

30 minutes ago, Stan` said:

There was some issue mentioned in the ticket. I don't know the specifics

you mean https://trac.wildfiregames.com/ticket/2516#comment:31? yeah it looks like the game has to be modified, because most games wouldn't be rated even if all players resigned correctly, and maybe even if they stayed in the game until the end, it's not super clear from that comment. in any case, the problem is not in lobby-bots.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

https://www.ageofempires.com/news/aoe2de-update-36906/

" When searching for a match as a pre-made team, the system was inadvertently using the sum rather than the average rating of all party members. This resulted in the system creating imbalanced matches. "

https://www.ageofempires.com/news/rankedtg-update-5-2021/

https://www.ageofempires.com/news/updates-to-ranked-team-game-elo-calculation/

4 hours ago, alre said:

even if all players resigned correctly

True. If a player decides not to resign & leaves then that behavior could somehow be reflected/deducted in the calculation?  Creates incentive maybe?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

×
×
  • Create New...