Jump to content

Alpha 26 Pre-release/Release Candidate Build Testing


Recommended Posts

We should try and schedule a round of team games on the release candidate:

a few things to check for:

Are mercs still OP, or now balanced? Perhaps, but we have to check.

What do we think of acceleration.

Compare performance to a25 maybe.

and then Han balance, but this is already being worked on.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

0ad-fnimpacademy.jpg.2d6d8b78092838741ac7c50b2638e6f1.jpg

TIL units have production hotkeys; unless they're produced in the Imperial Academy.

When I capture barracks and stables (and research training champions there) those very units are assigned hotkeys, even the chariots I'm not allowed to produce there.

Personally I think it's nice that I can train champs in captured buildings, although it seems odd that I can't produce one specific unit there. And probably it's not intended to work at all, but I paid the research cost!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Did a few 2v2s and 3v3s, tried han, merc cav, ptols, cav speed in general

  • cav acceleration is fine in my opinion, might be worse during lag
  • Occasional lag spikes after mouse action, it seemed a variety of actions can trigger this lag spike
  • Han CS infantry seem to be pretty bad  (I suggest turning the CS infantry xbow into a "Chu Ko Nu" unit like from Aoe2, with slinger range, bad accuracy, and dps of skirmisher with high repeat rate and longer prepare time). Otherwise there are too many redundant types of crossbow for han, excluding the champion crossbow which at first seems very op.
  • Sword cav in p1 are powerful, but it seems skirm cav might be ok vs them
  • Han farms are too fast. I know there has already been a .6 to .5 change of their rate, but I suggest giving them identical farming rate to basic civs (including 5 woman on farm). I think small area farms are a fantastic buff for food eco security by themsleves.

I think the merc changes are probably not enough, but I will wait for more testing to be sure. Maybe HP value increases of ranking up cav can be changed to be same as infantry. 

Replays:

In one replay with 2v3, you can see merc cav from kush, iberian cav rush, and han champ crossbow

In another replay with 2v2 you can see ptolemies and Han p1 swordcav rush

In another replay with 3v3 you can see old civs but plenty of cav and firecav gameplay. 

 

metadata.json commands.txt metadata.json commands.txt metadata.json commands.txt

Edited by BreakfastBurrito_007
added replays
  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, BreakfastBurrito_007 said:

Han CS infantry seem to be pretty bad  (I suggest turning the CS infantry xbow into a "Chu Ko Nu" unit like from Aoe2, with slinger range, bad accuracy, and dps of skirmisher with high repeat rate and longer prepare time). Otherwise there are too many redundant types of crossbow for han, excluding the champion crossbow which at first seems very op

İ'm glad too see that finally someone realised the weakness of Han. I and @Yekaterina suggested that we make crossbow units identical to skirmishers in stats for balance and keep the crossbow actor for historical accuracy, but a committed patch was altered back to a trash unit...

We could also make Han cavalry crossbows identical to slingers so that we have a virtual cavalry slinger unit.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, Sevda said:

We could also make Han cavalry crossbows identical to slingers so that we have a virtual cavalry slinger units

Crush damage for crossbow? 

3 minutes ago, Sevda said:

crossbow units identical to skirmishers in stats for balance and keep the crossbow actor for historical accuracy, but a committed patch was altered back to a trash unit...

Crossbowmen were apparently trash units.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Stan` said:

Crush damage for crossbow?

Perhaps. I was thinking more in the direction of damage per second and range, but some crush would be even more entertaining from a gamer's perspective.

1 hour ago, Stan` said:

Crossbowmen were apparently trash units.

I would disagree with this; the Han Dynasty used crossbows to counter barbarian cavalry charges and it was effective. In earlier and later dynasties they were used to counter infantry as well; they were very effective in defensive battles. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

28 minutes ago, Sevda said:

I would disagree with this; the Han Dynasty used crossbows to counter barbarian cavalry charges and it was effective. In earlier and later dynasties they were used to counter infantry as well; they were very effective in defensive battles. 

A meat shield is efficient :) Doesn't mean the people in it are not treated like trash. Crossbowmen were peasants given a crossbow. So cheap and expendable.

28 minutes ago, Sevda said:

Perhaps. I was thinking more in the direction of damage per second and range, but some crush would be even more entertaining from a gamer's perspective.

Crossbow taking down buildings sounds terrible...

  • Like 3
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

Perhaps crossbows can be the only ranged unit with a bonus vs. cavalry.

Yes. We can make them have slinger range (45 m), do 13.3 pierce with a 1.2x bonus against cavalry. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

Perhaps crossbows can be the only ranged unit with a bonus vs. cavalry.

unnecessary. slingers and archers were also used with success against cavalry.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Two more Han related things.

1. As the Ministers can enter all (?) buildings, I really would like all buildings to be able to set rally points. I always send my units into a specific direction from a building, but with farmsteads and storehouses I can't do that. Would it help if I considered that additional micro which would go against the design document?

2. If I'm not mistaken the civs have different chances to be selected when playing with a random civ; do we have a table somewhere showing those probabilities, and where do the Han range? I think ~half the games I started with random civ in this version was with Han, that would be quite a high percentage.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Sevda said:

Yes. We can make them have slinger range (45 m), do 13.3 pierce with a 1.2x bonus against cavalry. 

I've been reading on Total War discussion boards that Archers in the ancient world were actually not great, and that slingers had a longer range!! It amazed me! Xenophon seems to mention such an example!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

xbow issues:

infantry CS have 45 range

cav CS 50 have range

cav champ have 55 range

the cav champs are way stronger than mace xbows and they are also on a horse, the infantry are really weak, and the same is true for the CS cavalry crossbows. In general, the vision for a crossbow unit is very inconsistent not only across the Han but also across civs.

The range stats for xbows should be unified for sure (if any difference is to be had, the cavalry Xbows should be less accrurate).

However, If the infantry CS should have a different role (ie. skirm or sling range, higher dps by perhaps repeat time/damage buff), then maybe they should get a new name. If they don't get a new name, then maybe this could simply become the distinction between champ and CS crossbows. This distinction would have to be clarified in game i imagine.

To be honest: i think we shouldn't have "trash" units, but thats my opinion.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

28 minutes ago, Gurken Khan said:

~half the games I started with random civ in this version was with Han, that would be quite a high percentage.

lol for me none han. 

If the Han civ design was intended to be "trash cs, OP economy, OP champions, OP cs cavalry" then the economic advantages and units need to be changed, because that is not a good design.

To be honest, the Han don't need an anti-cavalry ranged unit or a mobile crush unit. They already have great siege in late game and extremely powerful options in general from p1 to p3. The main thing to consider is that their citizen soldier units are bad, they should be as good as normal civs units. Citizen solider crossbows are both redundant (between cavalry and infantry) and bad, so it feels like Han are swamped with this terrible unit that people will avoid making.

5 hours ago, Sevda said:

but a committed patch was altered back to a trash unit...

That is a great tragedy. Can you copy the patch link?

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, Gurken Khan said:

but with farmsteads and storehouses I can't do that.

I would recommend putting these two on a different control group, for example ctrl 7

 

4 hours ago, Gurken Khan said:

2. If I'm not mistaken the civs have different chances to be selected when playing with a random civ; do we have a table somewhere showing those probabilities, and where do the Han range? I think ~half the games I started with random civ in this version was with Han, that would be quite a high percentage.

The randomness generator first decides the name of a culture, then randomly chooses a civ that belongs to the culture. For example, there is a Hellenic culture, within which there are Spartans, Athenians and Macedonians. The probability of choosing each culture is the same and the probability of choosing each civ after the culture has been determined is the same.  Therefore, civs that belong to cultures with few civs inside are more likely to be chose. Some cultures such as Romans have only one civ within it, which makes it a very likely choice. Han belongs to the Chinese culture and there is only one Han civ within it, so the probability is very high. 

Having Han half of the time is abnormal, but not entirely impossible according to probability theory. The probability of getting Han should be 1/5 or 1/6

  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 14/06/2022 at 8:02 PM, Gurken Khan said:

TIL units have production hotkeys; unless they're produced in the Imperial Academy.

I just noticed this only happens when I select Imperial Academies and captured buildings together; otherwise Imperial Academies do have production hotkeys.

  

24 minutes ago, Sevda said:

I would recommend putting these two on a different control group, for example ctrl 7

Still won't let me set a rally point. (Besides that I don't want to use a ctrl grp for them.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, Gurken Khan said:

Still won't let me set a rally point.

I suspect that the reason why you cannot set a rally point is no unit is ever produced from a farmstead or storehouse so the feature is considered useless and removed.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

×
×
  • Create New...