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Xiongnu 2.0 (reconsiderations) gameplay


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New proposal.

This starting of new cycle. Many factions go through the redesign.

Thanks to AIEND

@AIEND

Can be more differentiated:

1. Like the Huns in Age of Empires 2, no housing is required for population support.

2. Except for the wonders, all buildings can be packaged.

3. The functions of warehouses, barracks, and stables can all be completed by yurts (of course, this building can use the model of the current barracks).

4. Shamans, champions, and battering rams are trained by the big yurt.

5. The corral automatically trains cattle and sheep.

6. The bullock cart for packing the yurt and the bullock cart for storing resources are separated.

7. In addition to hunting and slaughtering animals, Xiongnu's soldiers and women were inefficient at logging, mining for stone and gold and could not farm. But Xiongnu can do these jobs with slaves captured from settled civilizations.

8.Cavalry costs less, infantry only needs archers, spearmen and champion archers.

Edited by Lion.Kanzen
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Combined with cheaper archers, Xiongnu's most important weapon is the bow and arrow.
Xiongnu has very good horse archers, among which the "射雕者Shediaozhe" (These people have excellent arrow skills and can hit flying eagles.)is particularly accurate. According to records, once the Han army sent dozens of cavalry to pursue three Shediaozhe", all of them were shot dead. In the end, Liguang led a hundred cavalry in pursuit, shot two of them himself, and captured one.

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1 小时前,Lion.Kanzen 说:

另一个问题。

他们能有什么样的防御?

Xiongnu does not build walls and watchtowers, but may use camps surrounded by horse and ox carts as temporary fortifications.

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13 minutes ago, AIEND said:

There is another question. I don't know whether Xiongnu has horse armor. There is no record or unearthed material. Therefore, the champion cavalry should preferably be a horse archer.

no chance to steal equipment from the Han dynasty? Or buy equipment from some other fsction or city?

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17 分钟前,Lion.Kanzen 说:

没有机会偷汉朝的装备? 或者从其他fsction或城市购买设备?

If Xiongnu does not have horse armor, it is definitely not a technical reason. Xiongnu can use leather to make armor for humans, and there is no difficulty in making armor for horses.
I think there is no record of horse armor, because Xiongnu mainly faced the enemies of other nomads and the cavalry of the Han army. The battle between cavalry does not need horse armor, it will only become an excess load.

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1 minute ago, AIEND said:

If Xiongnu does not have horse armor, it is definitely not a technical reason. Xiongnu can use leather to make armor for humans, and there is no difficulty in making armor for horses.
I think there is no record of horse armor, because Xiongnu mainly faced the enemies of other nomads and the cavalry of the Han army. The battle between cavalry does not need horse armor, it will only become an excess load.

Ok that's fine.

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 10/03/2022 at 3:06 AM, Lion.Kanzen said:

Another question.

What kind of defenses could they have?

They could have wagon forts.

And maybe a tech to unlock the normal defensive buildings (tower, city wall, fortress).

They had a capital with white walls.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tongwancheng

During the battle of Mobei, the Chinese seized the Xiongnu fortress of Zhao Xin; and there are finds of fortresses in Mongolia and Russia associated with Xiongnu.

Visually defensive buildings could be made of rammed earth. Maybe painted white, but i think the white city would work better as a wonder.

References for earth walls (First one is Baian-Bulag ruins, other references are Chinese)

 

Baian-Bulag-Excavations-area-2-1-Brickwo

Summer_Vacation_2007,_263,_Watchtower_In

 

cf049122cc511a0569328f8e7932c4b2.jpg

Edited by Ultimate Aurelian
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9 hours ago, Ultimate Aurelian said:

Visually defensive buildings could be made of rammed earth. Maybe painted white, but i think the white city would work better as a wonder.

"The White City of Tongwancheng" sounds like a great Wonder. Perhaps once you build it, it unlocks walls and defense towers. Prior to that, it's all nomad all of the time.

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2 小时前,wowgetoffyourcellphone 说:

《铜湾城白城》听上去是一个伟大的奇迹。 也许一旦你建造它,它就会解锁墙壁和防御塔。 在此之前,一直都是游牧民族。

As I said before, "统万城tongwancheng" is a product of the Sixteen Kingdoms period.The city was built with Chinese craftsmen and techniques by the Xiongnu tribe who occupied the land of the 晋Jin Dynasty. It is not the product of the Xiongnu themselves. This is like the capital "大都Dadu" of the 元Yuan Dynasty, which is not a product of the Mongolians. Same.
According to the records of the 汉Han Dynasty, there is a "龙城longcheng" in Xiongnu in the grassland, which may be used for religious sacrifices. It may have a high earthen platform, but there is no city wall and tower.

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11 hours ago, Ultimate Aurelian said:

They could have wagon forts.

And maybe a tech to unlock the normal defensive buildings (tower, city wall, fortress).

They had a capital with white walls.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tongwancheng

During the battle of Mobei, the Chinese seized the Xiongnu fortress of Zhao Xin; and there are finds of fortresses in Mongolia and Russia associated with Xiongnu.

Visually defensive buildings could be made of rammed earth. Maybe painted white, but i think the white city would work better as a wonder.

References for earth walls (First one is Baian-Bulag ruins, other references are Chinese)

 

Baian-Bulag-Excavations-area-2-1-Brickwo

Summer_Vacation_2007,_263,_Watchtower_In

 

cf049122cc511a0569328f8e7932c4b2.jpg

卫律Weilv, a Han Chinese who defected to Xiongnu, once tried to build a city wall and granary in Mobei, but in the end, because Xiongnu was not good at defending the city and could not make effective use of these facilities, it might be captured by the Han army for its use, so Xiongnu finally gave up the idea of building a city.

“单于年少初立,母阏氏不正,国内乖离,常恐汉兵袭之。于是卫律为单于谋:“穿井筑城,治楼以藏谷,与秦人守之。汉兵至,无奈我何。”即穿井数百,伐材数千。或曰胡人不能守城,是遗汉粮也,卫律于是止”——《汉书·匈奴传》

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Regarding the nomadic faction workers (including women), I recommend making them cavalry, like the Age of Empires 3 mod I used as an example.
Because even if they were able to get into the yurt, these fragile structures would not be enough to provide any protection, and escaping on horseback was the most effective.

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On 09/03/2022 at 10:02 PM, Lion.Kanzen said:

1. Like the Huns in Age of Empires 2, no housing is required for population support.

2. Except for the wonders, all buildings can be packaged.

3. The functions of warehouses, barracks, and stables can all be completed by yurts (of course, this building can use the model of the current barracks).

Even Ptolemies look weak compared to these

But I like the idea

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11 hours ago, Ultimate Aurelian said:

塔舍宾斯基宫

https://siberiantimes.com/home/sent-to-siberia/a-palm-tree-on-mars/

information_items_1692.jpg

inside_two_buildings.jpg

inside_fasades_reconstruction.jpg

inside_palace_reconstruction_museum.jpg

可能是受中国风格启发的匈奴建筑的一个例子,其他人将其与他们的盟友中国篡位者鲁方联系在一起。

To be honest, I'm not sure the Russians are correct in restoring this palace, because it's a bit different from what I know about the Han Dynasty architecture, I mean, it looks more like a Scandinavian wooden church.

 

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5 hours ago, AIEND said:

To be honest, I'm not sure the Russians are correct in restoring this palace, because it's a bit different from what I know about the Han Dynasty architecture, I mean, it looks more like a Scandinavian wooden church.

 

Possibly they were incorrect in attributing it to Han, a later review of the reconstruction says it was closer to Central Asian style.

https://thesanghakommune.org/2017/04/18/tashebinsky-palace-han-chinese-structure-in-russia-1st-century-bce/

This article mentions a theory attributing it to Xin Dynasty based on the writing found on the tiles.

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1小时前,终极奥雷利安 说道:

可能他们将其归因于汉人是不正确的,后来对重建的评论说它更接近中亚风格。

https://thesanghakommune.org/2017/04/18/tashebinsky-palace-han-chinese-structure-in-russia-1st-century-bce/

本文根据瓷砖上的文字提到了一种将其归因于新朝的理论。

It can be confirmed that it is influenced by China, but from another point of view, it looks too Chinese style. He may not even be built by Xiongnu's craftsmen, and it is not suitable to be embodied as Xiongnu's wonder.

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3 minutes ago, faerietree said:

So finally Han chinese got retired as it doesn't fit the epoch I guess? (0ADMods "Public Archive")

Xiongnu caused quite some trouble for their ancestors.

No they got included.

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