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Long Term Fun & Balancing to achieve that


the-x
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 The most important Issue we should all be working on is the Long Term Fun of 0ad. I see it inmyself, we might all come to the point where we see we actually optimized every tactic or every playstile and every game seems the same. At leat there are actually 2 , mostly balanced , stratgies

- I rush with Cav

- I boom (and that of course with ptol) and get as soon as i am in II massive units out and surprise my enemy the moment he has invested in III where i won against almost every player like chrstgr, dakeyras and a lot more

 

What we need is more combinations, more general strategies and more tactics.

 

We can try to find Ideas which might help that

- Every Civ becomes it individualizes units

-- 2 or 3 more special unique units

-- Balance all the Units for every Civ individually, for example since ptol have many advantages there I units might be a bit more expensive or less attack damage

 

- Random Unit cap which makes it more necessary for some player to rush and dont play every game the same

 

I would really favor to do more in balancing and unique units. The same way they are mathematically and logic at the moment but more difference between civs - really do we need more differences between the units and make it possible to interact in early Phase with stone paper scissor in the beginning and not only cav.

 

Who is interested in more Content can comment my Videos where you see all the strategies but only the otimal (the 2 optimal) Strategies in the last games

 

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1 minute ago, the-x said:

 The most important Issue we should all be working on is the Long Term Fun of 0ad. I see it inmyself, we might all come to the point where we see we actually optimized every tactic or every playstile and every game seems the same. At leat there are actually 2 , mostly balanced , stratgies

- I rush with Cav

- I boom (and that of course with ptol) and get as soon as i am in II massive units out and surprise my enemy the moment he has invested in III where i won against almost every player like chrstgr, dakeyras and a lot more

 

What we need is more combinations, more general strategies and more tactics.

 

We can try to find Ideas which might help that

- Every Civ becomes it individualizes units

-- 2 or 3 more special unique units

-- Balance all the Units for every Civ individually, for example since ptol have many advantages there I units might be a bit more expensive or less attack damage

 

- Random Unit cap which makes it more necessary for some player to rush and dont play every game the same

 

I would really favor to do more in balancing and unique units. The same way they are mathematically and logic at the moment but more difference between civs - really do we need more differences between the units and make it possible to interact in early Phase with stone paper scissor in the beginning and not only cav.

 

Who is interested in more Content can comment my Videos where you see all the strategies but only the otimal (the 2 optimal) Strategies in the last games

 

What you also see here is, that the only real challenge i see atm is the linear rise in building houses at the right time with the right amount of citizens and as soon as possible building more barracs so my ressources are low as possible and lineary to pop rising.

I wish more Interaction, more different Strategies

with the other rush, the cav the same, just clicking and reaction time and these 2 are the only effective strategies which is too less, especially there is no counter that f.e. A > B > C

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When you get bored playing the same strategy over and over again, invent another one!

With Ptolemies, have you tried:

  • Mercenary rush
  • Spamming colonies around enemy base to annoy them
  • Slinger rush 
  • Pikeman rush
  • Camel spam
  • Bolt shooter rush
  • Siege towers
  • Champion cav raid
  • All elephant army
  • Catapult + ram flood
  • Naval maps

?

Every civ has fun strategies already invented and waiting to be discovered. 

By the way, your strategy of booming fast then pushing with all mercs is very effective if your enemy doesn't know what you are doing (I lost 2 matches against you this way). But the third match we played, you tried the exact same thing again and you lost to me. The reason is, I predicted what you will do so I chose Spartans, outboomed you and got a fortress in your way. Then I baited your army into the range of my fort then I had hoplites to handle your pikes and teleported Skiritai into your crowd of ranged units. 

40 minutes ago, the-x said:

2 or 3 more special unique units

There used to be a lot of unique units in A23 but they were deleted for balancing purposes and historical inaccuracy. Also there are untrainable units in the Atlas editor that you can try (e.g. Roman gladiators). I would really like the Spartan and Athenian Stoas to return, as well as Cardakes Mercenary, even if then bend history a bit. 

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48 minutes ago, the-x said:

and make it possible to interact in early Phase with stone paper scissor in the beginning and not only cav.

Good point. Actually they can interact but cav is very easy to escape, does the most damage and hurts your eco the least, so people use it the most. 

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1 hour ago, Yekaterina said:

When you get bored playing the same strategy over and over again, invent another one!

Thats a nice Idea :-) but since i want to optimize there are only two strategys that make sence: The Cav rush or the full Boom

 

and make it possible to interact in early Phase with stone paper scissor in the beginning and not only cav.

Good point. Actually they can interact but cav is very easy to escape, does the most damage and hurts your eco the least, so people use it the most. 

 

--> Yes, it might be an Idea to have at leat 3 - A - B - C Units you choose on at the start and already have an interesting counter system

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An interestin Idea to solve this may be in Phase I

that we add 1 Unit and all those behave in the way a>b>c so that it really makes a difference what players choose and depending your choice you may lead a more defensive game or trying to tech up faster.

Another Idea: Since CC Radiusses dont become ever the border except for building the one fortress AND very late in P3 - we need to have more interaction with land, with spaces, now maps are to big, ressources are save and one player has to leave completely his own base if he wants to attack the other base -> these are important issues in gameplay we need better Ideas or players will sooner or later give up 0ad

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3 hours ago, the-x said:

Since CC Radiusses dont become ever the border except for building the one fortress AND very late in P3 - we need to have more interaction with land, with spaces, now maps are to big, ressources are save and one player has to leave completely his own base if he wants to attack the other base

This is map dependent. In A24 wood was scarce in 1v1s and then territory would be important for control of woods.

I think it is important to distinguish between map issues and structure tree issues. Some issues can be solved by creating a different map. I think people would have experienced A24 entirely different if there was more metal on the map.

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18 hours ago, LetswaveaBook said:

This is map dependent. In A24 wood was scarce in 1v1s and then territory would be important for control of woods.

I think it is important to distinguish between map issues and structure tree issues. Some issues can be solved by creating a different map. I think people would have experienced A24 entirely different if there was more metal on the map.

it's not only that. the fact that territory expansion is so expensive makes the game meta dwindle between turtling and aggro, because you basically only have your starting base anyway. no other strategies are viable.

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21 hours ago, alre said:

it's not only that. the fact that territory expansion is so expensive makes the game meta dwindle between turtling and aggro, because you basically only have your starting base anyway. no other strategies are viable.

Yes, there might be some more strategical decisions; Territory Expansion should become a real strategical thing - not everything is everywhere and doesnt de facto matter -> it misses deep of the game and that will affect long term fun

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@the-x I agree that this is an extremely important topic that goes beyond alpha to alpha balancing.

I think there are three general categories where improvements will do the best to make the game more fun:

  • civ diversity/ uniqueness 
  • creative and powerful team bonuses (for example britons current team bonus is -25% hero cost and train time)
  • battle mechanics (right now is very simple: melee die, then ranged die)

 

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