List of things that people thinkt that need to be rebalanced

[soloooy0]

If it does not exist yet, it has no cost, or status, you could also put swordsman in phase 2 and soliferrum in phase 3 T.T

Hace 10 minutos, Yekaterina dijo:

demasiado OP  

Edited December 30, 2021 by soloooy0

[alre]

I liked the proposal of putting a fee on tributes between players. really worth taking into consideration for next alpha.

[alre]

another thing that was discussed and I think should lead to a rebalance better sooner than later, is that CSs who reach level 2, tend to snowball very fast to level 3. level 3 should require more experience points I think. for some units this is a lot more apparent, like with priests, who hardly stay any time at level 2 before upgrading.

[Lion.Kanzen]

rams should have upgrades. I feel them very powerful. It lacks handicap like in AOE II and AOE IV.

[chrstgtr]

While it’s great that there are a ton of different threads out there discussing every little issue. I think we have a broad mandate that fire cav and merc cav are broken. Can we just move forward on that before FF?

[LetswaveaBook]

23 hours ago, chrstgtr said:

I think we have a broad mandate that fire cav and merc cav are broken. Can we just move forward on that before FF?

Though there is consensus that they are broken, there might be more than one way to nerf them. So what is the best way to fix them?

[chrstgtr]

16 minutes ago, LetswaveaBook said:

Though there is consensus that they are broken, there might be more than one way to nerf them. So what is the best way to fix them?

For merc (generally), I think their cost has to be revisited. Their both stronger and cheaper than anything else. The eco is just too easy for merc. For fire cav, I would revert their stats to something like a23 where they were just roaming siege. 
 

but honestly, we’re at decision paralysis if you wait for a true consensus. Every time someone says something, someone else will say literally the exact opposite thing

[Yekaterina]

39 minutes ago, chrstgtr said:

For merc (generally), I think their cost has to be revisited. Their both stronger and cheaper than anything else.

Yes.

An idea: let mercs be quick train troops that spawn at rank 1, best used for emergency defence or quick push. (or just filling up an unit type you don't have available by default)

[BreakfastBurrito_007]

AFAIK the only nerf for merc cavalry has been raising their cost to 90 metal. Is this enough of a nerf or do they need a nerf to their actual battle capabilities?

(I think we could reduce mercenaries experience gain rate, maybe even just for cavalry)

I also am now of the opinion that CS cavalry skirmishers are a bit OP for their cost. The main challenge is that they are OP in late game where economies are fully developed and food is highly abundant. Their advantages over skirmisher infantry are great enough that players simply make them as a superior skirmisher, ignoring their mobility advantage that is the main attraction to cavalry.

they have 2.2x the health of infantry skirms (with hp upgrade)+2 pierce attack and 3 hack armor instead of 1.

All this comes at the cost of only 50 food. In the late game, attack upgrades  only increase the gap in capability. 

I argue that jav cav should be stripped of their +2 attack. This difference grows to about +4 when upgrades are considered.

Other cavalry cases:

spearman—> spearcav

+.9 dps , -1 hack armor, -2 pierce armor. 1.76x hp 

I think removing the bonus damage of skirm cav would be appropriate. It would encourage players to make use of the extra 50 food they invested in their unit, and discourage them from being used simply as infantry skirmishers despite their speed advantage.

I don’t think this would make them unfeasible as rush units since they are still easier to mass because of hunting. And there is still the huge amount of HP of course.

 

 

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

11 minutes ago, BreakfastBurrito_007 said:

they have 2.2x the health of infantry skirms (with hp upgrade)+2 pierce attack and 3 hack armor instead of 1.

 

The stats are all over the place. Why do they have higher hack armor when they are supposed to be countered by spears? And then it's muddled more with the fact that spears have hack and pierce attack. 

Edited April 16 by wowgetoffyourcellphone

[Stan`]

One solution would be to use hack again like de, but maybe we can have two types of piercing damage ? Like piercing and perforation or something

One might argue we'd need blunt slashing etc too which would make it even more a mess.

[BreakfastBurrito_007]

@wowgetoffyourcellphone the main thing is that they have the extra pierce damage. I can understand the extra hp for jav cav since they should be running around raiding or part of cavalry armies and this means they take more damage from defensive structures and enemy units than infantry skirmishers. 

I don’t think the attack types are a big issue, it’s just too much for skirmcav. And we need to nerf them in a way that encourages ideal cavalry usage, rather than letting the unit be universally better in every situation.

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

1 hour ago, BreakfastBurrito_007 said:

I can understand the extra hp for jav cav since they should be running around raiding or part of cavalry armies and this means they take more damage from defensive structures and enemy units than infantry skirmishers. 

Then they can have higher pierce armor, not higher HP or higher hack armor.  

 

[BreakfastBurrito_007]

52 minutes ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

Then they can have higher pierce armor, not higher HP or higher hack armor.  

 

Actually, this extra hack armor might be one thing that makes them way better against spearcav and swordcav than people expect. What do you think about reducing the damage plainly by 2 like I suggested earlier? I think this would solve the problem of them being used as infantry, since this would make them no better than skirmisher infantry when both sides have some melee infantry units to tank the damage (this is the situation when skirm cav are used as infantry).

I also understand the case for increasing pierce armor like you said and bringing their hack armor to 2 or 1 while decreasing hp. I do think this is a more complicated set of tweaks and I would be concerned about getting it just right. It also does not address the damage of the unit and I think this is primarily what drives people to use them in place of infantry skirmishers.

[chrstgtr]

https://code.wildfiregames.com/D4515

Cost was increased and experience needed to promote was increased.