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Millenium AD - REVAMP


Radiotraining
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Guys .. as I said earlier in this thread, I still have to figure out all the technical aspects of making a mod, so I wanted to limit the number of civilisations to focus on so they can be developed with enough attention. 

But if you want to help, then more civs can surely be added! :D 

Ahaha seriously tho, I keep asking around for guidance and suggestions on how getting started, so any expert advice that could help me decipher the files structure and where to put my hands is very welcome! ;) 

talking to you @wowgetoffyourcellphone :D ahaha how you managed to make such a great mod? Is seriously amazing! 

 

Anyway about Venice.. I'm Italian soooo.. surely I would have tried to include some references from my history ahahah :D

Honestly I was thinking more of a federation of Italian States. Something like the Lombard League that defeated the Holy Roman Empire, so that is possible to include many Italian states references, like a Genoese crossbowman, Venetian ships, mercenaries from Pisa etc..

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If we are to add the Venetians from the 8th to the 10th century, we should take into account that the latter were a strongly Hellenized province that almost in all situations would have resorted to Byzantium for military, commercial and economic reasons.

In fact Venice owed its prosperity, security and very existence to the monarchs of Constantinople.

From the beginning the clergy of Venice was of Greek origin and the Venetians themselves "adopted the Greek traditions and ways" because of this, they were very often confused by the European popes and kingdoms with the Byzantines themselves. The Venetian churches were consecrated to Byzantine saints and the city itself was patronized by the Greek saint Theodore until the 9th century. The same applies to the Venetian nobility who used a Byzantine Greco-Roman political system with terms like the "Aristoi" and "Patrici" in use by Venetian nobles and governors.

Almost all the most important families of the time were directly Greek or of Greek origin such as the Guistiniani, Candiani, Zancaroli, Semitecoli and the Bizzamani.

Edited by Andronikos Medina
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5 hours ago, Andronikos Medina said:

If we are to add the Venetians from the 8th to the 10th century, we should take into account that the latter were a strongly Hellenized province that almost in all situations would have resorted to Byzantium for military, commercial and economic reasons.

Thanks for the complete background :) always very interesting to have a bird-view of the complex web of relations at that time.

Indeed, there were many relations between Venice and the East, especially Byzantium. And the architecture is a mark of this. But I personally didn't know all these historical details! Very appreciated.

I can think that this aspect could be maybe translated with "mercenaries" in the game, so maybe could be a hint of the close relationships :)

Edited by Radiotraining
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You are right about the Lombards. In my opinion, they were much more striking and important, since it was the closest that Italy had to a centralized German-Roman state. And yes, the truth is that I believe that several of the small city-states could make their appearance as mercenaries since in these times they did not have something that was "theirs" as in much later times.

But it would be just as interesting to plan a campaign focused on all this.

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6 hours ago, Andronikos Medina said:

The Venetian churches were consecrated to Byzantine saints and the city itself was patronized by the Greek saint Theodore until the 9th century. The same applies to the Venetian nobility who used a Byzantine Greco-Roman political system with terms like the "Aristoi" and "Patrici" in use by Venetian nobles and governors.

Venetians are the successors of both Romans and Byzantines, on their military expeditions they looted various sites with priceless treasures.

https://futurevenetian.co.za/1204-venice-sacks-constantinople-in-own-crusade/

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexandrian_Crusade

 

The history of the Italian states, full of controversy and scandals, is fascinating.

Edited by Lion.Kanzen
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Okay update:  I figured out how to mess into the documents and files of the game and I managed to create a customized civ!! Yuhuu!!

I know it sounds risible, but for me it was quite a milestone to understand the system :)

Now comes the fun part: all the meshes / textures / props needed to populate such civ ahaha! Let's go!

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Taaa daaan! Managed to add my ugly model into my dummy civilization in the game and IT WORKS!! :) :)

Soooo it's going to be all downhill from here!! 

(ahaha not really: now comes the BIG part but this thing at least is done!)


Stan don't kill me: I know the model is ugly and the props are floating :D

Schermata 2021-10-31 alle 16.11.53.png

Edited by Radiotraining
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3 hours ago, Radiotraining said:

Taaa daaan! Managed to add my ugly model into my dummy civilization in the game and IT WORKS!! :) :)

Soooo it's going to be all downhill from here!! 

(ahaha not really: now comes the BIG part but this thing at least is done!)


Stan don't kill me: I know the model is ugly and the props are floating :D

Schermata 2021-10-31 alle 16.11.53.png

Setting props is difficult. That's why I hardly like doing that task.

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27 minutes ago, Lion.Kanzen said:

Setting props is difficult. That's why I hardly like doing that task.

Yeah, seems quite tedious and elaborated.. I found a tutorial of Stan that explains it, but I haven't tried that step yet

 

One question.. probably @Stan` at this point: I managed to add another structure, a house, to the game. This time, however, it became tiny tiny. You have any idea of why is that the case? And why it came out pretty okay in the first shot?

In both cases I just copied and pasted the .xml files from the other civs and updated the links to the right meshes.. I guess the question should be more like: how to get consistent results? Is there a rule of size/proportions to keep?

Gosh, is so easy to get lost :self_hammer:

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4 minutes ago, Radiotraining said:

In both cases I just copied and pasted the .xml files from the other civs and updated the links to the right meshes.. I guess the question should be more like: how to get consistent results? Is there a rule of size/proportions to keep?

only with respect to units.

1/4 ~ It is the scale of the buildings vs the units.

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But I mean, at the moment of exporting from Blender.. do you put the model of a unit side by side to the building to check? (hey, that could work, by the way!) 

I think I kinda solved by enlarging A LOT the model until I got it right.. but it felt random and arbitrary, so it was more to understand the correct method.

But nevermind, I'll try your advice! :)

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On 30/10/2021 at 12:19 AM, Andronikos Medina said:

If we are to add the Venetians from the 8th to the 10th century, we should take into account that the latter were a strongly Hellenized province that almost in all situations would have resorted to Byzantium for military, commercial and economic reasons.

In fact Venice owed its prosperity, security and very existence to the monarchs of Constantinople.

From the beginning the clergy of Venice was of Greek origin and the Venetians themselves "adopted the Greek traditions and ways" because of this, they were very often confused by the European popes and kingdoms with the Byzantines themselves. The Venetian churches were consecrated to Byzantine saints and the city itself was patronized by the Greek saint Theodore until the 9th century. The same applies to the Venetian nobility who used a Byzantine Greco-Roman political system with terms like the "Aristoi" and "Patrici" in use by Venetian nobles and governors.

Almost all the most important families of the time were directly Greek or of Greek origin such as the Guistiniani, Candiani, Zancaroli, Semitecoli and the Bizzamani.

For the mod's  period, i think Lombards would indeed be a better choice.

Edited by Ultimate Aurelian
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Guys.. let me introduce you the new Rus civilization for Millenium AD!! :)

Finally, after some troubleshooting and a quick deep dive into 3D modelling, I managed to bring my customized CC into my new civlization!! :) Since now I was only experimenting with dummy models, but now I think I can really transfer those initial concepts to the actual game! :)

Thanks to everyone that answered my doubts/questions!! It had been a big, big encouragement to not despair from the very beginning!

 

EDIT: yes, I can still make that model a little bit prettier.. but overall is a decent result of what I had conceptualized! :)

Next one: add props, decals, etc...

Schermata 2021-11-02 alle 08.17.06.png

1073335484_Schermata2021-11-02alle08_10_54.png

 

rus_struct_alt.jpg

Rus_civic_centre_08.blend Rus_civic_centre_08.blend1

Edited by Radiotraining
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If you plan to add monasteries for the Rus, you should know that they were the best elaborated and constructed building in the city and even also served as a residence for the governors and their monks who would also have the role of advisers.

You should also know that these monasteries were built from the beginning by Byzantine architects after the Christianization of the Rus, so they should share certain similarities, it was not until late in the 11th century that the Rus monasteries acquired their own characteristics such as that white that characterized its monasteries but still following the Byzantine architectural design.

In the artistic aspects it was also the Byzantines who guided the Russian artists in the construction of mosaics and Orthodox frescoes, an example of this is that in both civilizations a mosaic or fresco of Christ Pantrokrator was placed on the upper part of the door.

Kievan Rus' - Wikipedia.jpg

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5 minutes ago, Andronikos Medina said:

You should also know that these monasteries were built from the beginning by Byzantine architects after the Christianization of the Rus, so they should share certain similarities, it was not until late in the 11th century that the Rus monasteries acquired their own characteristics such as that white that characterized its monasteries but still following the Byzantine architectural design.

2 minutes ago, Andronikos Medina said:

This is another image that represents very well a settlement of the Rus, as you can see almost the entire city is made of wood with the exception of the monasteries.

Kievan Rus’ History and Interesting Facts.jpg

 

This is a perfect reference!!! Thanks!! :))

Yeah!! That's my idea!! I would like the final result to look something like that. My reference have been also Apollinary Vasnetsov's paintings.. I think he depicted very well that rural / traditional side of Russia (albeit romanticized and not historically 100% actual.. but I think is pretty close!)

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The settlements could definitely vary. Settlements of the Rus on the coasts of the Black Sea could have been almost copies of the Greco-Byzantine colonies that would have used mortars, marble and different materials, leaving wood as a secondary option and only differentiable with certain variations such as domes, but in to a large extent they were simply palisade communities. But if you want to give more life to the Rus you could add a Byzantine embassy or something similar to allow them to improve mortar or other materials.

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1 minute ago, Stan` said:

Just remember the period is something like 500-First Crusade

Yes.. I have that in mind. I don't think we're too far. Maybe in this case is more correct to reference on Kiev or Novgorod that were more a commercial and political centre at that time, more so than Muscovy.

Muscovite Russia, in fact, was planned for the "famous" II part of the mod. But, since I hardly see that coming, I took the initiative to sketch some concepts and I took that momentum to actually try to implement them into the game!

I don't know if it's completely "wrong" from the original idea, but I was thinking that perhaps Millenium AD could be treated like 0ad, where various civilizations are represented at the height of their power, even if there's no specific time where this happened simultaneously.

So, similarly, the Rus' duchy may have flourished a little bit later in the timeline, but it would be worthed to represent it, even if it was more embrional before the year 1000.  I don't know if it makes sense.

Anyway, given the reason to not step too far into the timeline, at the beginning of this thread I stated that my idea was to focus to no more than 3 civs: Rus, Avars and -perhaps- heian period Japan. So it's easier to keep them vaguely connected to the same timeline

 

 

 

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38 minutes ago, Andronikos Medina said:

You should also know that these monasteries were built from the beginning by Byzantine architects after the Christianization of the Rus, so they should share certain similarities, it was not until late in the 11th century that the Rus monasteries acquired their own characteristics such as that white that characterized its monasteries but still following the Byzantine architectural design.

Very interesting! I always noticed some closeness between the two cultures. If I'm not mistaken the russians had some sort of admiration for the rich church of Byzantium. There is the story of prince Vladimir that, among all the faiths and religions, chosed the faith of Byzantium because he was struck by the might of the Byzantine ceremonies. It's probably a legend, but gives a sense of the close connections between Rus' nobles and Byzantium.

I was thinking to have maybe a little wooden church as "church" in the game (like in the village in the second reference) .. and that monastery perhaps as a wonder?

Although the concept of "monastery" itself is interesting. Maybe could work as a university to unlock some new techs? Let's see! :)

To make a civilization work well in a game, it must be also balanced, so we have to be careful with any new "innovation" we may introduce ;) So let's see step by step from the basic buildings and main techs what's possible

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I suppose Kievan Rus (879–1240) should come before the Moscovite Rus (1263–1547)?

Anyway, matter of fact I suppose these 2 factions could share many buildings together :) . Just as current Greeks do in the main game. (You could also add Merovingians with the already Carolingians buildings and Continental Saxons - Frisians with the already Anglo-Saxon buildings). (And grant them different specific things, like different wonders lol).

I'm completely interested in these new civs. Lemme know what I can help with.

 

Edited by Dasaavawar
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