Making factions more specific/unique : P2 champs.

[LetswaveaBook]

Moving some champions to p2 would be a fairly easy thing to do, so now the question is which champions should be moved to P2. I could give suggestions myself, but I would first give other community member the chance to put a suggestion. I hope that this approach makes it more interactive.

[LienRag]

Would they be "p2 champions" (i.e., weaker than p3 champions that we have now) or be the p3 champions transferred to p2 ?

[Dizaka]

I'd also add that adding more mercenaries to p1 would be good, imo.  Adds the opportunity to go for a different strategy.  P2 champs, imo though, should be the same as just p3 champs skill wise.

[Nullus]

It could be that P2 champions start out weaker, but can promote with experience to their P3 values.

[LetswaveaBook]

5 minutes ago, LienRag said:

Would they be "p2 champions" (i.e., weaker than p3 champions that we have now) or be the p3 champions transferred to p2 ?

That is a good question and something I did not think about. Sometimes asking good question can be as valuable as trying to provide an answer. I have no answer on the question, but it is good to consider all the options.

Another question would be: If you were able to train champions in p2, would you actually train them in p2?

6 minutes ago, Dizaka said:

I'd also add that adding more mercenaries to p1 would be good, imo.

I would not advocate enabling Kush or Macedon to train rank 2 javelin cavalry for 80 metal in p1.

[Dizaka]

11 minutes ago, LetswaveaBook said:

That is a good question and something I did not think about. Sometimes asking good question can be as valuable as trying to provide an answer. I have no answer on the question, but it is good to consider all the options.

Another question would be: If you were able to train champions in p2, would you actually train them in p2?

I would not advocate enabling Kush or Macedon to train rank 2 javelin cavalry for 80 metal in p1.

Honestly, I would. I'd be interesting to see what balance could be made with early p1 rushes w/ Merc cav being thrown in.  They handicap resource gathering, so depending on game you can or can't go all in.

Edited September 29, 2021 by Dizaka

[BreakfastBurrito_007]

@Dizaka I like this idea as well, since it could break the usual boom or rush continuum. However, we need to be careful with starting resoures and starting buidlings.

I would advocate for an upgrade unlocking champions in p1 to have a substantial food and wood cost as well as metal, since this would mean you need to have a food/ wood economic presence before taking metal and spamming champions. This reduces the effectiveness of the earliest merc rushes. Units that I could forsee as mercs in p1, skirmisher from ptol, slinger from carthage, and maybe macemen from kush in p1; javelin cavalry are a lot more problematic in p1 in my opinion.

As for p2 champions, I think they should be the same stats as they are in p3, since the player is probably already making economic sacrifices in p2 to make those champs, he/she should be able to get the value they purchased. That being written, I don't think any cavalry champions should be available in p2, given that p2 is so transitional, it would be game ending to lose 20 women on food at that time because of the loss of population growth momentum, especially if it costs your enemy only 5-6 champions, which would not slow down the economy greatly.

 

[Dizaka]

  

12 minutes ago, BreakfastBurrito_007 said:

I would advocate for an upgrade unlocking champions in p1 to have a substantial food and wood cost as well as metal, since this would mean you need to have a food/ wood economic presence before taking metal and spamming champions. This reduces the effectiveness of the earliest merc rushes. Units that I could forsee as mercs in p1, skirmisher from ptol, slinger from carthage, and maybe macemen from kush in p1; javelin cavalry are a lot more problematic in p1 in my opinion.

  I don't think a research tech is necessary.  I would only suggest a research tech if there is no additional building and those mercs can be built from the CC (with one or two civs being unique enough to not have this.)

I think if mercs get debuffed there is very little need for a research tech.  The gathering penalty is actually fairly large.

12 minutes ago, BreakfastBurrito_007 said:

As for p2 champions, I think they should be the same stats as they are in p3, since the player is probably already making economic sacrifices in p2 to make those champs, he/she should be able to get the value they purchased. That being written, I don't think any cavalry champions should be available in p2, given that p2 is so transitional, it would be game ending to lose 20 women on food at that time because of the loss of population growth momentum, especially if it costs your enemy only 5-6 champions, which would not slow down the economy greatly.

  For uniqueness I think there should be a mix of cav and non cav p2 champions.  Generally, civs that get bonsues I would steer as being p3 (gauls champ cav) and civs that do not get bonus maybe p2 (romans/macedonians, etc).

 

[BreakfastBurrito_007]

2 minutes ago, Dizaka said:

romans

Assuming those cavalry are fixed from their current state right? Right now they are needing a -2 reduction in hack/pierce armor types, and probably also a small reduction in damage.

Right now they don't need a bonus XD.

Edited September 29, 2021 by BreakfastBurrito_007