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20 hours ago, Gurken Khan said:

If a player can't be bothered to look at the tooltips in a strategy game, how much handholding do you want to do?

I only play occasional games of 0 A.D., against A.I.

As with the dozen of other strategy games I play, I tend to assume a lot of things about "standard" buildings and units. The standard here being that you would garrison units in buildings for temporary protection and healing.

For some special buildings, like temples, I will read the tooltips if I have not played for a while. But for common ones, barracks included, I have preconceived ideas about what they do and might not always check if I’m missing something. (barracks train soldiers, towers shoot arrows, houses increase population limit, etc.)

I just started a quick game to check, and the experience gain in garrison is obvious from the tooltip. I guess I missed in until then because building a barracks is something I do without really thinking about it, like some other common tasks during early game.

Sadly I have no good suggestions about places where this information could be shown to ensure it is not missed. Loading screens and their tips could have been a good place, but here loading times are so short that I do not have the time to read in full what they display.

A technology improving the experience gain would of course help in noticing that this is a thing, but this does not sound like enough of a reason to add a new technology.

Edited by vv221
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@Freagarach That sounds great, to create the rank 2/rank 3 option from barracks. Ideally they would also raise in cost to become +30% f,w for rank 2. And then plus 10 metal from rank 2 to 3. We don’t want to make mercenaries or skiritai commando useless so we should be careful about: the cost, the number of available units per civ who can be trained rank 2 or rank 3, and the train time for that.

 

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On 12/09/2021 at 11:46 PM, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:
  • Isis Statue
    • Short-range Aura: Nearby Gatherers +20% gather rates
  • Serapis Statue
    • Long-range Aura: Nearby Units +10% health

@BreakfastBurrito_007 Find these ideas most interesting. Perhaps iber/kush monument ranges could be increased or have an additional mil/eco benefit or even increasing the amount of monuments one can make? Roman temple of vesta (medical treatment & loyalty) has 2 ranges of 40m + 75m for example. Always felt like the range for the kushite large pyramid wasn't substantial unless playing defensively or in rare instances where a stalemate occurs along enemy border and fighting is more localized to holding that border position.

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In Delenda Est, the Kushite pyramids are used as Phase tech requirements. So, X number of Small Pyramids required to move to Phase II, and Y number of Large Pyramids required to move to Phase III. Perhaps a point for discussion? Once you build the required number of pyramids, then the Phase techs research instantly.

 

As far as Kushite economics go, I would focus on Metal (Iron Smelting) and raising animals (Extensive Husbandry), for historically-based solutions. I personally wouldn't want their pyramids to have an econ aura, since they really didn't represent anything economic. I feel like they're a religious or social thing, so made sense to me they'd bring about the advancement of your settlement.

 

Just some thoughts.

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On 06/10/2021 at 7:57 AM, Phalanx said:

Heres an idea that could possibly be more engaging for the player: Make a new building that is a small training area with dummies and stuff like that.  So currently units can be garrisoned in a barracks to gain levels, but that is not very engaging, the player doesn't SEE this happening. So a training area building with say, 10 training posts. Citizen soldiers can be tasked on these buildings and will gain xp while visibly attacking the dummies and training.  So then training and level techs can have a place in this new training area that increase training speed or maybe even increase max level. For example, say that you can't train a unit to elite level at the training arena without a city phase level tech, or what have you.  

Basically its a more engaging way to show unit training as opposed to just hiding them in the barracks, and provides a building specifically for training techs and more accentuates the fact that training is an option for players.  Because the fact that you can garrison units in the barracks to train is not really readily understandable to a new player.

Like an attach building from StarCraft ?

 

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On 08/10/2021 at 11:45 PM, Lion.Kanzen said:

Like an attach building from StarCraft ?

 

As I was catching up on these posts, I was thinking that exact thing.  Or maybe an upgrade to the barracks that adds a ring of training posts around it.  Basically the whole idea for this is just visibility for the training mechanic.  It wouldn't really rely new anims, just attack anims against a post.

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On 08/10/2021 at 11:38 PM, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

In Delenda Est, the Kushite pyramids are used as Phase tech requirements. So, X number of Small Pyramids required to move to Phase II, and Y number of Large Pyramids required to move to Phase III. Perhaps a point for discussion? Once you build the required number of pyramids, then the Phase techs research instantly.

 

As far as Kushite economics go, I would focus on Metal (Iron Smelting) and raising animals (Extensive Husbandry), for historically-based solutions. I personally wouldn't want their pyramids to have an econ aura, since they really didn't represent anything economic. I feel like they're a religious or social thing, so made sense to me they'd bring about the advancement of your settlement.

 

Just some thoughts.

I do actually like how DE treats the Kushites with their pyramids.  It is very unique and makes them feel fresh and fun compared to other factions.

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  • 2 weeks later...

yeah, kushites buildings are so cute: pyramids, camps and a huge temple ... wonder diversity are indeed beautiful, also ptolemaic libraries are cute.

another interesting building for diversity are apartments, I forgot to research who made the first proposal for this building but thanks !.

I don't know why only carthaginians have it, since romans had very crowded cities, see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insula_(building)

also, I am pretty sure other civilizations had it too, like persians and ptolemies who also had huge cities.

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  • 2 weeks later...

As a Rome enthusiast I like the idea that Triarii have elite rank, that feels very historically accurate and overall a nice buff. 

Insula is also a nice addition for historical flavour. Maybe we can have our Sibylline books back too ;) after all they only get burned a few centuries later

Something I would like to suggest is the expansion of the allied troop roster, perhaps adding an Italic slinger or archer. Mercenaries could also be an option. We already have Balearic slingers and Creten archers available in the game code and Rome appears to have used both in the Punic wars, so there is historically room to maneuver within the time frame of 0 AD. 

Overall it would be nice to have a more flexible Roman military. 

On a rather different note, what about allowing captured elephant stables to train elephants for whoever has captured them? Currently they are useless unless you can already train elephants yourself. Captured war elephants feels like it could be rather fun.

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6 hours ago, Fabius said:

On a rather different note, what about allowing captured elephant stables to train elephants for whoever has captured them? Currently they are useless unless you can already train elephants yourself. Captured war elephants feels like it could be rather fun.

This can be done very easily, and it could even be limited to civs who would've at least had access to them or actually used them in combat, but sparingly. Can limit them to a 10 match limit or something. Romans would be a good candidate for this nuance; Persians and Macedonians as well. 

Edited by wowgetoffyourcellphone
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7 hours ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

This can be done very easily, and it could even be limited to civs who would've at least had access to them or actually used them in combat

I'm not convinced by this historical/theoretical argument, since the same restrictions aren't imposed on the actual gameplay. For the most part the game is not about replaying historical events.

I'm currently playing Kushites in Anatolia with a sub-Sahara biome; three things that don't go together historically. If Britons can conquer India they should have access to elephants (just like the historical Macedonians could have).

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Rome 

To achieve the differentiation of civilizations, Rome must also be assigned some changes. For his identity and a little balancing buff.

The 'Triarus' spears unit must be differentiated from other civilizations as it is an experienced unit in the Roman ranks. I propose that they be rank 3 units, like the Spartan skiritai. that their cost has also changed for 50 wood, 40 food and 30 metal, as a pure measure of balance between civilization. I find that having the same feature twice is healthy in a game -> For example the Roman and Macedonian cavalry Phase 1.

Units 

The "hastatus" swordsman unit would be changed so that it has a second attack (throwing with pillium). The unit would have 1 pilium available every 45 seconds inflicting 20 piercing and 2 crushing damage. This is a priority attack over the basic attack, anyway it does more damage than the melee attack. Regarding the improvements of the forge and the heroes, nothing comes to reinforce this secondary attack.                                                                                                                                                                    It's a major change I know. This would give civilization the opportunity to make massive use of melee infantry. To inflict some damage on a rush defense. And historically it is heavy.

A good Roman infantry player would make good use of the formations at his disposal (normal and other formations without bonus, testudo, forced march) to achieve his objective. In addition, the use of pilium would make it possible to compensate for the absence of a remote unit such as the skirmisher. An easy kill of elephant units. The only problem would be the use of the throwing weapon on targets such as a ram, building .. maybe a little stupid at the role play level but maybe it make too much programming to avoid these attacks said " stupid ".

We come to replace skirmishers with Roman citizen archers.

In addition to this archer unit, there would be the auxiliary archer (mercenary rank 2, best precision etc.) Available at age 2 with a technlogy. it is proven that Rome has had great recourse to groups of auxiliaries.

In the stable, the tirailleur cavalry which has no meaning has just been replaced by the mercenary cavalry rank 2 archers.

--------------

There are currently a lot of positive points about rome on differentiation.

A solid hp pool architecture. Siege walls and military camps are fun and historically realistic.

With these changes I want to make Rome more centered on melee infantry by allowing it through a training game to have tools against ranged units. Moreover, it is undeniable that rome used archers a lot.

The auxiliary aspect is insufficiently exploited, it can take the path of the mercenaries for simplicity of gameplay

Rome has no unique technology in this alpha. If I do not say stupidity before there was a technology in the temple for the range of vision of the units.

Three ideas for new tech. The first is original it will be necessary to see what it gives in part I think it can be interesting (defensive, offessensive and support ally)

Pax romana : 500 METAL. It is not a technology strictly speaking but a diplomatic solution, a strategy. Once the button is clicked. This establishes a 90 second ceasefire for all players on the map. You can click the button once per game. The technology is researched in the castle.

Auxiliary cavalry: 200 food 200 metal 10 sec: Allows the recruitment of barbarian cavalry mercenary rank rank 2 in the stable (these are Gallic and German cavalry)

Auxiliary infantry: 200 food 200 metal 10 sec: Allows the recruitment of rank 2 mercenary auxiliary infantry in the barack.

 

Civilization bonus :

Roman legionaries can use the testudo formation -> Hastatus units benefit from bonuses and penalties when using this formation. Very strong resistance to piercing damage (I don't have the numbers but +30 piercing armor would make them tanky enough to be almost untouched in the medium term?) + 3 sharp armor, -60% damage inflicted as a penalty and -90% speed.

Forced March Formation: All Roman infantry units in Forced March formation are + 30% faster but have 0 armor due to fatigue. The Romans are known for their civil engineering and their ability to move quickly thanks to their disciplined and rigor.

Roman outpost: homing pigeon technology is free and instantly unlocked


 

 

 

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2 hours ago, Dakara said:

The auxiliary aspect is insufficiently exploited, it can take the path of the mercenaries for simplicity of gameplay

Another possibility would be to give rome auxiliary units, but no structure to train them. So they can only train them once the Romans conquer a barracks/stable/CC from a different faction.

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1 hour ago, LetswaveaBook said:

Another possibility would be to give rome auxiliary units, but no structure to train them. So they can only train them once the Romans conquer a barracks/stable/CC from a different faction.

Would it make sense from a gameplay or historical sense if these units could be trained faster than normal?

Also, would they cost food/wood or would they be like mercs as @Dakara said

I feel this could give rise to some interesting fights. I like this idea quite a bit. 

Edited by BreakfastBurrito_007
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I always thought that the Roman roster is very limited (and boring), and was wondering why that huge empire wouldn't have access to more kinds of units. So I'd welcome additions to their roster, but don't if it should be a matter of luck/captured buildings.

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1 hour ago, LetswaveaBook said:

Another possibility would be to give rome auxiliary units, but no structure to train them. So they can only train them once the Romans conquer a barracks/stable/CC from a different faction.

I like this. Very different from other bonuses. 

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3 minutes ago, Gurken Khan said:

I always thought that the Roman roster is very limited (and boring), and was wondering why that huge empire wouldn't have access to more kinds of units. So I'd welcome additions to their roster, but don't if it should be a matter of luck/captured buildings.

they should recruit auxiliary troops like Cretan archers and Numidian cavalry, elephants,slingers

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1 hour ago, LetswaveaBook said:

Another possibility would be to give rome auxiliary units, but no structure to train them. So they can only train them once the Romans conquer a barracks/stable/CC from a different faction.

 

@wowgetoffyourcellphone

 

Imagine, you give a Han princess to the Xiongnu to stop their raids, and direct their Warlords to raid an adversary.  True historic accuracy. :yes3:

 

The Han barracks would certainly be a valuable target to capture with 2 unique Han citizen units, Crossbow and Ji.

 

Edited by artoo
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5 minutes ago, Gurken Khan said:

I always thought that the Roman roster is very limited (and boring), and was wondering why that huge empire wouldn't have access to more kinds of units. So I'd welcome additions to their roster, but don't if it should be a matter of luck/captured buildings.

Good point, I would like some way to proliferate this some (without just making it kush merc camps). 

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