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Economy bonus ideas


ValihrAnt
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I made this thread with the intention of getting ideas and feedback for potential economy bonuses for the current civilizations.

Currently nearly all civilizations lack a direct economy bonus. Ptolemies and Athenians are the only ones with a direct bonus. The Romans, Ptolemies, and Iberians have their team bonus working as an economy bonus. Consider that the bonuses should make sense historically and have a name and description. That's the really hard part for me and I hope this thread will help avoid me making a patch and then a bunch of revisions for it.

The currently made patches:

1) Macedonians: Storehouse technologies are researched instantly ⚙ D4234 [gameplay] Macedonian bonus - Instant storehouse technology research time. (wildfiregames.com)

2) Romans: Economic and Military structures +2 population bonus ⚙ D4309 [gameplay] Roman bonus - structures +2 population space (wildfiregames.com)

3) Kushites: Pyramids buildable in Phase 1 and with a reduced cost, build time. (150Stone from 300 Stone + 100 Metal; 120 build time from 200) ⚙ D4280 [gameplay] Adjust Kushite Pyramids to be more used (wildfiregames.com)

4) Athenians: Faster technology research time. More of a military bonus than an economical one. ⚙ D3675 [Gameplay] Athenian bonus - faster technology research time (wildfiregames.com)

5) Seleucids: Farmstead farming boost aura(+15% in 20m aura) ⚙ D4325 [gameplay] Seleucid bonus - farmstead farming boost aura (wildfiregames.com)

Edited by ValihrAnt
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Is there a section on wiki for the history for each civ?  I saw that each civ I believe had a thread + a lot of research and believe that was put on wiki but cannot find it?  Curious on where it is as it would be a good idea, at least for me, to read that before making suggestions.

 

(Edit; found this from Kush link)

https://trac.wildfiregames.com/wiki/SpecificNames

(Edit; found the following:)

1) Macedonians: https://trac.wildfiregames.com/wiki/Civ%3A_Macedonians

2) Athenians: https://trac.wildfiregames.com/wiki/Civ%3A_Athenians

3) Spartans: https://trac.wildfiregames.com/wiki/Civ%3A_Spartans

4) Gauls: https://trac.wildfiregames.com/wiki/Civ%3A_Gauls

5) Britons: https://trac.wildfiregames.com/wiki/Civ%3A_Britons

6) Seleucids: https://trac.wildfiregames.com/wiki/Civ%3A_Seleucids

7) Ptolemies: https://trac.wildfiregames.com/wiki/Civ%3A_Ptolemies

8) Kushites: (Thank you @Gurken Khan)

9) Iberians: https://trac.wildfiregames.com/wiki/Civ%3A_Iberians

10) Carthagians: https://trac.wildfiregames.com/wiki/Civ%3A_Carthaginians

11) Persians: https://trac.wildfiregames.com/wiki/Civ%3A_Persians

12) Romans: https://trac.wildfiregames.com/wiki/Civ%3A_Romans_Republican

13) Mauryas: https://trac.wildfiregames.com/wiki/Civ%3A_Mauryas

14) Judeans (Thanks @Gurken Khan.  Not IG but worth including IMHO.)

 

(Edit2; suggestions based on above.  Could be agreeable could be disagreeable.  Just suggestions based on previous research done by others)

 

Macedonian Bonus:

Specific Name: Hellenic League.

  1. History: After the unification of Greece, Philip II gathered all the city-states together to form the Hellenic League, with Macedon as the its leader. With this Pan-Hellenic federation he planned to launch an expedition to punish Persia for past wrongs. Although assassinated before he could carry out the invasion, his son Alexander the Great took up the mantle and completed his fathers plans.
  2. Effect: All Macedonian units have a +10% attack bonus vs. Persian and Hellenic factions (but also -5% attack debonus vs. Roman units).

Specific Name: Military Reforms.

  1. History: When Philip II came to the Macedonian throne he began a total reorganization of the Macedonian army. His reforms created a powerful cavalry arm to his army that would prove useful to both himself and his son Alexander's conquests.
  2. Effect: Each subsequent Barracks constructed comes with 5 free (random) Macedonian military units. This also applies to the Barracks of allied players (they receive 5 free units of their own culture for each new Barracks constructed).

Agema: (Obtained from seleucid wiki)

  • Upon promoting to the 3rd ('elite') rank, the Companion becomes an Agema cavalryman with Champion Unit stats.
  • Maybe spear cav can upgrade to champ cav on r3? r4?

Specific Name: Basíleion tôn Aigôn (Could be a Hero build location).

  • Class: Wonder.
  • History: The palace at Aigai in Pella was the residence of the Macedonian kings. Built during the reign of Philip II, it is one of largest and most significant buildings in the classical Greek world alongside the Parthenon.

Specific Name: Bibliothikon  (Generic Name: Library).

  • Class: Atlas-only special building.
  • History: Alexander the Great founded libraries all over his new empire. These became a center of learning for an entirely new synthesized culture: the Hellenistic culture. 
  • Phase: City.
  • Special:
    • Maximum of 1 built.
    • All Special Technologies are researched here.
    • Building one reduces the cost of all other remaining technologies by 10%.

Polyidus of Thessaly and Diades of Pella:

  • History: Philip II hired engineers such as Polyidus of Thessaly and Diades of Pella who were capable of building state of the art siege engines and artillery.
  • Special:
    • P2 Siege Workshop and ability to upgrade siege techs in p2.

Professional Standing Army / Military Imperialism:

  • History (Professional Standing Army): Following the acquisition of the lucrative mines at Krinides (renamed Philippi), the royal treasury could afford to field a permanent, professional standing army.
  • History (Military Imperialism):  According to some estimates, between 359 and the end of Philip II’s reign the total size of the infantry that could be mobilized had risen nearly fourfold thanks to the policies of Philip to expand the territory and manpower of the kingdom. 59 It seems that the kingdom was now in a position to supply 3,000 infantry and 300 horsemen per year. 60 Thus the effects of Macedonian military imperialism upon the Macedonian population may be considered as beneficial (HERE).
  • Special (Possible alternatives and/or combinations):
    • Military technologies (Blacksmith, fort, barracks, stable, arsenal, etc.) technologies have reduced costs.
    • Reduced costs for military units.
    • Reduced costs for siege units
    • Reduced costs just for champions

 

Athenian Bonus:

Specific Name: Themistoklês.

  • Class: Hero1 (Hero in Wiki, could be a technology?).
  • History: The general whom persuaded the Athenians to invest their income from silver mines in a war navy of 200 Triremes. A key figure during the Persian Wars, he commanded the victorious Athenian navy at the decisive battle of Salamis in 479 BC. Later, he pursued an active policy against the Persians in the Aegean, thereby laying the foundations of future Athenian power. Ostracised by the Athenians, he was forced to flee to the protection of the Persians.
  • Special:  "Hero" Aura (When garrisoned in a ship, all nearby war ships are 20% faster. Ships are also 20% cheaper during his lifespan).

Specific Name: Agrós.

  • Class: Field.
  • History: The Athenians were not reknowned as farmers and preferred to herd livestock or cultivate olives instead.

Specific Name: Limḗn.

  • Class: Dock.
  • History: Greece is a sea country, which is why some of the greatest Hellenic and Hellenistic cities like Ephesus, Corinth, Alexandria and Antioch were built by the sea. It should also be noted that all colonies during the Great Colonisation were thriving port centres, which traded with the local population. Athens itself had a large sea port at Piraeus, which consisted of 3 separate harbors surrounded by mighty walls and easily chained off to prevent amphibious attacks by enemy fleets. As long as Piraeus was unconquered, Athens remained monarch of the seas.

Name: Silver Owls.

  • History: The mines at Laureion in Attica provided Athens with a wealth of silver from which to mint her famous and highly prized coin, The Athenian Owl.
  • Effect: Metal mining gathering rates increased by +10% for each passing age.

Name: Othismos.

  • History: The classical phalanx formation was developed about VIII century BC. It was eight men deep and over two hundred men wide, and used overlapping shields and combined pushing power. "Othismos" refers to the point in a phalanx battle where both sides try to shove each other out of formation, attempting to breaking up the enemy lines and routing them.
  • Effect: The player gains the ability to order his troops into a Phalanx formation, providing +30% Attack and +30% Pierce Armour if attacked from the front.

 

Spartan Bonus:

Specific Name: Ploîon Halieutikón.

  • Generic Name: Trading Ship.
  • Class: Merchant Ship.
  • Special: Garrison a Trader inside to boost the amount of trade received.

Specific Name: Agis.

  • Class: Hero Spearman.
  • History: Agis III was the 20th Spartan king of the Eurypontid lineage. Agis cobbled together an alliance of Southern Greek states to fight off Macedonian hegemony while Alexander the Great was away in Asia on his conquest march. After securing Crete as a Spartan tributary, Agis then moved to besiege the city of Megopolis in the Peloponnese, who was an ally of Macedon. Antipater, the Macedonian regent, lead an army to stop this new uprising. In the Battle of Megalopolis, the Macedonians prevailed in a long and bloody battle. Much like Leonidas 150 years earlier, instead of surrendering, Agis made a heroic final stand in order to buy time for his troops to retreat.
  • Garrison: 1.
  • Function: Last Stand.
  • Special: "Last Stand" bonus. Has triple the Health of most infantry heroes. No other bonuses or auras.

Name: Laws of Lycurgus.

  • History: Under the Constitution written by the mythical law-giver Lycurgus, the institution of The Agoge was established, where Spartans were trained from the age of 6 to be superior warriors in defense of the Spartan state.
  • Effect: The Spartan rank upgrades at the Barracks cost no resources, except time.

Name: Peloponnesian League.

  • History: Much of the Peloponnese was subject to Sparta in one way or another. This loose confederation, with Sparta as its leader, was later dubbed the Peloponnesian League by historians, but in ancient times was called 'The Lacedaemonians and their allies.'
  • Effect: Allied team members can train Spartiates.

Name: Feminine Mystique.

  • History: Spartan women were some of the freest in the ancient world. They could own land and slaves and even exercise naked like Spartan men. It is said that only Spartan women gave birth to real men. Such tough-as-nails women more than once helped save their city from disaster, for example when after a lost battle against Pyrrhus of Epirus they overnight built an earthen rampart to protect the city while their men slept in preparation for the next day's siege.
  • Effect: Spartan female citizens cannot be captured and will doggedly fight back against any attackers. They are also capable of constructing defense towers and palisades.

Name: Tyrtean Paeans.

  • History: Paeans were battle hymns that were sung by the hoplites when they charged the enemy lines. One of the first known Paeans were composed by Tirteus, a warrior poet of Sparta, during the First Messenian War.
  • Effect: Units in phalanx formation move faster.

Name: The Agoge.

  • History: Spartans were housed and trained from a young age to be superlative warriors and to endure any hardship a military life can give them.
  • Effect: Barracks and Syssiton receive a +10 population cap bonus.

 

Gaul Bonus:

Specific Name: Gaeroa

  • Class: Spearman.
  • History: The main weapon of most Celtic warriors was the spear. Spears came in great variety with many specialized heads for fighting various types of enemies, hunting, and parade decoration. A spearman in a Celtic society was not inherently low class though; spears were associated with numerous deities and heroes. Spearmen are noted several times of fighting in phalanxes and Celtic art depicts them sometimes standing in what would later be recognized as a shieldwall, probably for when they were holding a position.

Specific Name: Baguada

  • Class: Javelinist.
  • History: Baguada means 'guerrilla'; an irregular combatant. Skirmishers, raiders, pirates, etc., would fit under such a designation. Such men were extremely common in Celtic armies. While positions were best held by dedicated spearmen standing in an ordered line and wall, the duty of softening an enemy, and even breaking weaker enemy positions, such as militia, would go to men carrying huge numbers of additional javelins. So many javelins did Celts bring with them, they were said in at least one instance in Galatia to 'charge following a black shadow so great sunlight is emptied from the sky', a poetic description of the enormous number of missiles they would put into the air preceding their main attack.

Specific Name: Epos

  • Class: Cavalry Swordsman.
  • Hacker Armament: Long Sword.
  • History: Owning a horse was a sign of aristocracy. Although the primary unit in the Celtic army was the infantry, they had great respect for their horses. They honoured their speed and their bravery. They actually assigned two warriors to one horse. When one warrior was tired in battle, they would run back to camp and the other warrior would get on and go fight. Another method was to take their mount and tether it to a stake in the ground then go fight on foot and run back to their horse when they needed to flee. They fought as mercenaries in the Punic wars. Primarily used in ambushes and hit and run tactics. After the fall of Gaul, the Romans used the Gallic warriors and horses to greatly strengthen their army.
  • Special: Bonus vs. all infantry.

Specific Name: Gaisaredos

  • Class: Cavalry Javelinist.
  • Ranged Armament: Light Spear.
  • History: Celtic horsemen drawn from the lower- and non-aristocratic warriors were usually not expected to engage in a direct melee while mounted. They would be used to harass enemy columns on the move, supply lines, or foragers, to hamstring enemy movements. This was shown to great effect against Julius Caesar in Britain, where the light British horsemen would harass his operations to forage and his supply. With his own Gallic horsemen stuck in Gaul due to weather, he could not effectively chase them off or prove much threat to these harriers. Their prime use, as such, is hit-and-run attacks, softening an enemy position for superior cavalry and infantry assaults.

Specific Name: Bodu

  • Class: Female Citizen.
  • History: Being a woman in Celtic society was remarkable better than any other social society at this time. Women were viewed largely as equals to men. The woman had control over every piece of property she owned as she came into marriage. If a man was a noble or king, it was also not uncommon for women to take leadership positions if the husband died. Celtic women were said to be fair to look upon, but also as strong as their husbands. Celtic men wealthy enough could have several 'wives', but only he and his 'chosen' wife held duties and rights. For example, children from any secondary spouse were cared for by the husband and his first wife, and the actual blood mother had no legal obligation to the child, since it was considered born of the union of the first two.

Specific Name: Cavalidos

  • Class: Corral. (Mules from corral?)
  • History: Woven fences made from coppicing which are the tender shoots regrown from the stool of a tree after you chop it. Bronze age: Cattle, sheep, goats and pigs. Cattle had always been important with pre-historic farmers but through the bronze age there was an increase in the importance of sheep and goats. These would have been kept for wool, milk and meat. The type of sheep were very similar to the Soay breed of today. Pigs and wild boar remains have been found in farmsteads. In the iron age: sheep, goats, cattle, pigs, poultry, geese and ducks. Horses were a new arrival in the farmsteads but they were not used for work so much as symbols of status. Most Celtic ranched equines were actually ponies. Large horses were for war or travel by established, wealthy people. Ponies were used for farming, as well as for war by the lower classes, who could not afford actual horses. Celts were also notable for crossbreeding 'similar' animals, creating the earliest mules in Europe, probably for farm labor and as pack animals.

Specific Name: Visila

  • Class: Wall.
  • History: The Romans called this wall "Murus Gallicus". Translated, it means "Gaulish wall". It was extremely resistant to assault by battering ram. Julius Caesar described a type of wood and stone wall, known as a Murus Gallicus, in his account of the Gallic Wars. These walls were made of a stone wall filled with rubble, with wooden logs inside for stability. Caesar noted how the flexibility of the wood added to the strength of the fort in case of battering ram attack.
  • Special:
    • Turf Resistance: Higher resistance to Ram attacks, but more susceptible to ranged siege and fiery attacks than conventional stone walls.
    • Bank Protection: Ranged units can walk up to the bank of the wall and attack from above, but without the protection of wall towers. Due to their limited range attacks, they will have to leave the safety of the base and and meet in the open any opponent attacking from a distance.

Name: Deas Celtica

  • History: Celtic religion and druidry inspired their warlike mindset.
  • Effect: Druids increase attack rates of soldiers near them slightly.

Naval:

  • Very weak in navy. They did not use ships for war, but mainly for transport. They should have two contrasting boats: one that is fast, small, and weak; and one that is large, slow, and vey stout.

Defences:

  • The Gallic turf walls frustrated the Romans to no end. They were very hard to take down. They were so effective, that Rome copied the technique and used it against the Celts – Siege of Alesia. Their towers were mainly used for scouting and not defensive purposes.

Specific Name: Uae Uictos. (Generic Name: Woe to the Conquered.)

  • History: "Woe to the Conquered" – It was the words that the Gallic Leader, Brennos, spoke at the Capitol at Rome after they took their plunder. Just used Gallic spelling here.
  • Effect: Loot amounts from destroyed enemy buildings or killed enemy units are quadrupled.

 

Briton Bonus:

Specific Name: Uertamika Kingetoi (Brythonic Longswordsman)

  • Class: Champion Infantry Unit.
  • History: Brythonic chieftains, much like their Gallic counterparts, went to battle with an elite force as their personal bodyguards. This unit represents the best of the foot nobility of that guard. Their specific name, meaning "Superior Warriors", emphasizes the training and superior skills in combat they have obtained. Their equipment is a testament to the standing and seniority these men enjoy.
  • Function: Very high hack attack. High hack armour. Low HPs and low Pierce armour. Bonus vs. All Spear Units (infantry and cavalry).

Specific Name: Carbanto (Generic Name: Brythonic Chariot)

  • Class: Champion Cavalry Unit.
  • History: Chariots were employed by the Celts of the British Isle. They were noisy, and intimidating. They were used to attack in motion by running over people, and hurling javelins. However they also were used to quickly deliver and provide escape from the battle as a transport. They were also used to quickly move men to places in the battle line that were weak and losing momentum. The wheels of the chariot were ringed with seamless iron. Chariots saw use on the continent as well, but to a lesser extent. Their most notable continental use may have been at Telamon.

Specific Name: Coun

  • Class: Champion War Dog. (Champion wardog upgrade?)
  • History: Dogs in Celtic warfare varied in breed and size, but were of key use to Celts, especially in intertribal war. Most famous were the great mastiffs of Britain, eventually adopted by the Romans as a means to replace Molossian hounds and other such animals. To the Celts, these animals were used to flush out ambushers, or disorder an enemy line, or run down missile troops, who could not run faster than the animals.
  • Function: Fast moving unit. Cheap. Does well in battle against cavalry.

Generic Name: Kennel

  • History: Celts occasionally used war dogs in battle to frighten the enemy and disrupt their discipline.
  • Phase: Town.
  • Special: Train War Dogs, which are cheap and are good for hunting and massed attacks.

Name: Ardiosmanae

  • History: Represents Celtic farming methods.
  • Effect: Enhanced food gained from ranching and farming.

Name: Deas Celtica

  • History: Celtic religion and druidry inspired their warlike mindset.
  • Effect: Druids increase attack rates of soldiers near them slightly.

Name: Druides

  • History: The Druids of the Celts maintained an organized religion that advanced the technology of their people even during wartime.
  • Effect: Bonus to tech speed.

Specific Name: Sevili Dusios. (Generic Name: Woad Painting.)

  • History: The Britons took up the practice of either making permanent marks on their body in the form of tattoos or temporarily painted their bodies with woad paint. The effect was very frightening.
  • Effect: Increased attack and movement rate for melee soldiers.

Specific Name: Turos Maros. (Generic Name: Great Tower.)

  • History: Celtic legends abound with stories of massive tall towers built by the most powerful kings, and the remains of some very large towers have been found .
  • Effect: Increases pierce attack for Defense Towers and Brochs.

 

Seleucids Bonus:

Specific Name: Rhomphaiaphoros Thrakikós.

  • Class: Mercenary Infantry Swordsman.
  • History: Thracian tribesmen who wield the fiercesome rhomphaia polearm weapon in combat. They were ubiquitous mercenary swordsmen throughout Hellenistic times, sometimes even serving in two opposing armies.
  • Function: Spearman and Elephant killer.
  • Special:
    • "Kleuros": Trained at the Military Colony.
    • "Impetuous"

Generic Name: Trading Ship.  (Specific Name: Ploîon Phortēgikón.)

  • Special: Garrison a Trader inside to boost the amount of trade received.

Specific Name: Pentḗrēs.  (Generic Name: Quinquereme.)

  • Class: Heavy Warship.
  • Appearence:
    • Shell: Similar in size and function to the Roman and Carthaginian quinqueremes.
  • Garrison: Cannot. (So like an iberian fire ship)
  • Special: Ramming.

Specific Name: Thorakitès Rhomaïkós. (Romanized Heavy Swordsman.)

  • Class: Champion Infantry Swordsman.
  • Hacker Armament: Xiphos short sword.
  • Ranged Armament: Javelin.
  • History: In 166 BC, at the Daphne Parade under Antiochus IV, the Argyraspides corps is only seen to be 5,000 strong. However 5,000 troops armed in the Roman fashion are present and they are described as being in the prime of their life, perhaps denoting their elite nature. It is possible that the missing 5,000 men of the Argyraspides were the 5,000 'Romanized' infantry marching alongside them. The training of a segment of the royal guard in 'Roman' methods was probably down to several factors. Firstly, Antiochus IV had spent part of his early life in Rome and had acquired rather an excessive admiration for Rome's power and methods. Secondly, the future wars that the Seleucids might be fighting would probably be in the Eastern satrapies against mobile enemies and other large areas of land. Training troops in this way would add to the overall efficiency and capability of the army and make it more maneuverable. Indeed, the 'Romanized' troops are seen facing the Maccabees at the Battle of Beth Zechariah in 162 BC. Thirdly, the defeat of the Macedonian Antigonids at the Battle of Pydna in 168 BC was a great culture shock, showing the complete destruction of the Macedonian military system at the hands of the Roman legion. It has been suggested that the fact that these 5,000 men are marching at the head of the army was meant to show Antiochus IV's intention of reforming the entire Seleucid army along Roman lines, though whether or not this complete reform actually took place is unknown. The true extent of the adoption of Roman techniques is unknown, some have suggested that the infantry are in fact more likely to be Thureophoroi or Thorakitai, troops armed with an oval shield of the Celtic type, a thrusting spear and javelins.
  • Function: Fast heavy infantry.
  • Special: Throws a javelin at the enemy target (if target is within min and max range) before closing with sword for melee.

Specific Name: Seleukidón Kataphraktos  (Generic Name: Seleucid Cataphract.).

  • Class: Champion Cavalry Spearman.
  • Hacker Armament: A very long cavalry lance, the "kontos" wielded by two hands.
  • History: As the Seleucids began to solidify their hold on much of Alexander's Eastern Empire they began to meld the best of the martial traditions of both East and West, culminating in the Seleucids fielding a corps of highly armored cavalry called 'Kataphraktoi.' These cavalrymen would punch through weak points in the enemy line and would often prove decisive in battle.
  • Garrison: 1.
  • Function: Highest armor of any cavalry in the game, but also one of the slowest. Very high charge bonus and trample damage, but low standard attack.

Specific Name: Drepanèphoros (Generic Name: Scythed Chariot.).

  • Class: Champion Chariot.
  • Ranged Armament (Primary): One rider fires a bow, while the driver drives.
  • Hacker Armament (Passive-Trample): Scythes.
  • Function: Expensive "suicide" unit. Mostly used to rush into infantry and cavalry formations to slaughter a bunch of enemies with scythes ("Trample Damage" aura) before getting destroyed themselves. Countered by: Skirmishers and Elephants.
  •  

Specific Name: Thorakisménos Polémou Eléfantos (Generic Name: Armored War Elephant.).

  • Class: Champion Elephant.
  • Hacker Armament (Primary): Tusks. Crushing attack.
  • Ranged Armament (Passive): Javelins thrown by riders at random enemies.
  • Function: The Armored War Elephant will smash buildings with its crush attack. It also has a passive ranged attack from its riders throwing javelins. Last but not least, this unit also has a very high trample aura which kills nearby enemy infantry and cavalry alike.
  • Special:
    • "Damage Frenzy". (If the unit loses 75% of its health, it will randomly attack nearby units, friend or foe, other than priests or healers. This effect can only be overcome by restoring the unit's lost health with a healer or by killing it.)
    • "Stench" Aura.  (Enemy cavalry units are spooked by elephants and camels, and prove less effective when in range of them. )
    • "Trample Damage" Aura. (As with war elephants and melee cavalry of all types, causes passive crush damage to nearby enemy units through trampling.)

Specific Name Oikos.  (House upgrade?)

  • History: Hellenistic homes were larger and more opulent than those from mainland Greece.

Specific Name: Sītobólion.

  • Class: Farmstead.
  • History: The Seleucid Empire straddled the Fertile Crescent, an area where the Tigris and Euphrates Rivers regularly flooded and provided rich soil for farming.

Specific Name: Agrós.

  • Class: Field.
  • History: The Fertile Crescent, much like the Nile River basin and delta, was a net exporter of grain for thousands of years.

Name: Syrian Tetrapolis.

  • History: The political core of the Seleucid Empire consisted of four 'sister' cities: Antioch (the capital), Seleucia Pieria, Apamea, and Laodicea.
  • Effect: Allied Civic Centers are 20% cheaper.

Specific Name: Hellenistic Metropolises (Generic Name: Hellenistic Metropolises.).

  • History: Beginning with Alexander, the Hellenistic monarchs founded many cities throughout their empires, where Greek culture and art blended with local customs to create the motley Hellenistic civilisation.
  • Effect: Civic Centers gain double Health and double default arrows.

Specific Name: Epigamia (Generic Name: Marriage Alliance.).

  • History: Seleucus I Nicator invaded the Punjab region region of India in 305 BC, confronting Chandragupta Maurya (Sandrokottos), founder of the Mauryan empire. It is said that Chandragupta fielded an army of 600,000 men and 9,000 war elephants (Pliny, Natural History VI, 22.4). Seleucus met with no success and to establish peace between the two great powers and to formalize their alliance, he married his daughter to Chandragupta. In return, Chandragupta gifted Seleucus a corps of 500 war elephants, which would prove a decisive military asset for Seleucus as he fought the rest of Alexander's successors.
  • Effect: A one-time purchase of 20 Indian War Elephants from the Mauryan Empire.

 

Ptolemies Bonus:

Specific Name: Pentḗrēs (Generic Name: Quinquereme.).

  • Class: Heavy Warship.
  • Garrison: Cannot. (So like an iberian fire ship)
  • Special: Ramming.

Specific Name: Tessarakontḗrēs (Generic Name: Juggernaut.).

  • Class: Champion Warship.
  • Appearence:
    • Shell: This is the textbook definition of a naval "Juggernaut." Largest ship in the game. As many oars as possible and two or more large sails. It's possible it might have had a double catamaran hull. Put a lavish tent on the rear between the two aft catapults.
  • History: The age of the Successors ('Diadokhoi') was the age of the arms race. Ever larger and more complex machines of war were envisioned and constructed. Among those machines was the gigantic juggernauts of the Ptolemaic navy, or 'Poliremes'. Some of these ships were large enough to boast crews of over a thousand strong or more. These were more like floating fortresses than tactical naval ships. With the end of the Hellenistic states in the 1st century BC came the end of these mighty juggernauts.
  • Garrison: Cannot.
  • Function: Floating fortress and transport barge.
  • Special:
    • Build limit: 1 (raised to 5 during the lifetime of Ptolemy IV Philopater).

Damage Frenzy:

  • If the unit loses 75% of its health, it will randomly attack nearby units, friend or foe, other than priests or healers. This effect can only be overcome by restoring the unit's lost health with a healer or by killing it.

"Stench" Aura:

  • Enemy cavalry units are spooked by elephants and camels, and prove less effective when in range of them.

"Trample Damage" Aura:

  • As with war elephants and melee cavalry of all types, causes passive crush damage to nearby enemy units through trampling.

Specific Name: Stratópedo Misthophóron. (Generic Name: Mercenary Camp.)

  • History: The Greco-Macedonian Ptolemy Dynasty relied on large numbers of Greek and foreign mercenaries for the bulk of its military force, mainly because the loyalty of native Egyptian units was often suspect. Indeed, during one native uprising, Upper Egypt was lost to the Ptolemies for decades. Mercenaries were often battle-hardened and their loyalty can be bought, sometimes cheaply, sometimes not cheaply. This was of no matter, since Egypt under the Ptolemies was so prosperous as to be the richest of Alexander's successor states.
  • Special:
    • Cheap barracks-like structure that is buildable in Neutral territory, but casts no territory influence.
    • Trains all "Mercenary" units:
    • Min. distance from other Military Settlements: 100 meters.

Specific Name: (Generic Name: Mercenary Army.).

  • History: The Greco-Macedonian Ptolemy Dynasty relied on large numbers of Greek and foreign mercenaries for the bulk of its military force, mainly because the loyalty of native Egyptian units was often suspect. Indeed, during one native uprising, Upper Egypt was lost to the Ptolemies for decades. Mercenaries were often battle-hardened and their loyalty can be bought, sometimes cheaply, sometimes not cheaply. This was of no matter, since Egypt under the Ptolemies was so prosperous as to be the richest of Alexander's successor states.
  • Effect: The Ptolemies receive the "Stratópedo Misthophóron" special building (or "Mercenary Camp"), which is essentially a barracks that is constructed in neutral territory and trains all mercenary soldiers.

Generic Name: Nile Delta.

  • Effect: The Ptolemaic Egyptians receive 3 additional farming technologies (see below) above and beyond the maximum number of farming technologies usually available to a faction.
    • Specific Name: Kēlōneion  (Generic Name: Well Sweep).
      • History: An ancient tool for efficiently drawing water from a well.
      • Effect: Increased food production for farm fields.
    • Specific Name: Sāqīya  (Generic Name: Water Wheel.).
      • History: A water wheel used to disburse water from lower elevations into irrigation canals. The earliest evidence of a sakia is from a Hellenistic tomb painting in Ptolemaic Egypt which dates to the 2nd century BC. It shows a pair of yoked oxen driving a compartmented waterwheel, which is for the first time depicted, too. The Greek sakia gear system is already shown fully developed to the point that modern Egyptian devices are virtually identical. It is assumed that the scientists of the Museum of Alexandria, at the time the most active Greek research center, may have been involved in its invention. An episode from the Alexandrian War in 48 BC tells of how Caesar's enemies employed geared waterwheels to pour sea water from elevated places onto the position of the trapped Romans. (source: Wikipedia)
      • Effect: Increased food production for farm fields.
    • Generic Name: Archimedes' Screw.
      • History: A machine historically used for transferring water from a low-lying body of water into irrigation ditches, whose invention is traditionally attributed to Archimedes of Syracuse, the famous Greek mathematician and engineer.
      • Effect: Increased food production for farm fields.

Roundup.

  • Effect: Can capture gaia elephants and camels. Hosting these animals at the corral structure reduces the cost of training elephant and camel units.

Generic Name: Pharaonic Cult.

  • Effect: Hero aura range boosted by 50%.

Musaeum (Related to library)

  • Mouseion at Alexandria, which included the famous Library of Alexandria, was an institution said to have been founded by Ptolemy I Soter. This original Musaeum ("Institution of the Muses") was the home of music or poetry, a philosophical school and library such as Plato's Academy, and also a storehouse of texts. It did not have a collection of works of art; rather it was an institution that brought together some of the best scholars of the Hellenistic world, analogous to a modern university. This original Musaeum was the source for the modern usage of the word museum.
  • (Note:  Maybe Ptolemies should have a Musaeum with a "Library" upgrade inside of it.)

Kushites Bonus (Note, I'd contact @Sundiata directly about any bonuses as he has the most knowledge on this and is still active on forum):

In general, see https://wildfiregames.com/forum/topic/21602-the-kingdom-of-kush-a-proper-introduction-illustrated/?do=findComment&comment=347366

Imry-r ihy

  • Corral bonus of some sort

Imry-r sht

  • Farmstead bonus of some sort
Edited by Dizaka
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If I'm not mistaken the main Kushite economy came from husbandry, if confirmed, I would give a bonus to the animals in the corral, such as increasing the total meat of the animals for example and a 4° metal/stone tech.

For athenas i would also change their team bonus to -50% and include all ships including fishing boats, and would give some unique new technologies (civilization with more unique technologies).

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5 hours ago, ValihrAnt said:

Seleucids: Technologies are 10% cheaper. - The Seleucid kingdom encompassed many different cultures and religions

I feel that such a more specific technology range would allow for more strategy, so perhaps following gaul's bonus that is (-15?% blacksmith upgrades cost) is a good idea. Sele bonus could be -20% economic technologies cost

5 hours ago, ValihrAnt said:

Fields are 50% cheaper. - The Kushite Kingdom extended around the Nile which provided fertile ground for agriculture and irrigation.

I like this a lot. Great thinking!

A few of my ideas:

  • persians: faster cavalry train time and/or faster cavalry gather rate
  • Some civ maybe mauryans: faster berry gathering
  • carthage or athens: faster fishing rate
  • 5 hours ago, ValihrAnt said:

    1) Macedonians: Storehouse and Farmstead technologies are researched instantly (Cost remains the same just the research time is reduced to 0 seconds). - The Macedonians had access to plenty of timber and other natural resources and relied on them for a strong economy.

    If this isn't powerful enough or exciting enough for Mace, then it could be phases are researched instantly.

 

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9 hours ago, borg- said:

For athenas i would also change their team bonus to -50% and include all ships including fishing boats, and would give some unique new technologies (civilization with more unique technologies).

Ships/Dock/Navy

Neosoikoi (Ship Sheds)

Black Sea Grain Fleets

Trierarchoi

Trieraules (Ship's Flute Player)

Arsenal of Philon

Diekplous (Breakthrough)

Periplous (Flanking Maneuver)

Anastrophe (Sudden Turn)

 

Other

Pheidian Workshop

Panathenaic Festival

Piraeus Fortifications

Themistoclean Walls

Periclean Strategy

Mines of Laureion 

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  • 2 weeks later...

I came up with some newer ones. I was having an internal debate about these being op, but then I realized how op the existing ones are with iber, and rome.

  • Seleucids: -20% cc cost could be extended to barracks and stable for whole team. And upgraded to -30%. I feel it is less strategic to have -10% on all technologies because it is not specific enough.
  • persians: -15% cavalry train time: my thinking is romans give -10% but for infantry which are a more economic unit.
  • Britons: instant phase research and -30% cost (no historical explanation yet: its just a fun and powerful bonus)
  • Gauls could be upgraded to -30% blacksmith costs.
  • Athens: slingers -10 stone or metal cost (if in future there is champion slinger: -5 of both). OP mining history

@ValihrAnt tell me what you think of these

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55 minutes ago, BreakfastBurrito_007 said:

I came up with some newer ones. I was having an internal debate about these being op, but then I realized how op the existing ones are with iber, and rome.

  • Seleucids: -20% cc cost could be extended to barracks and stable for whole team. And upgraded to -30%. I feel it is less strategic to have -10% on all technologies because it is not specific enough.
  • persians: -15% cavalry train time: my thinking is romans give -10% but for infantry which are a more economic unit.
  • Britons: instant phase research and -30% cost (no historical explanation yet: its just a fun and powerful bonus)
  • Gauls could be upgraded to -30% blacksmith costs.
  • Athens: slingers -10 stone or metal cost (if in future there is champion slinger: -5 of both). OP mining history

@ValihrAnt tell me what you think of these

Gauls proposal sounds OP—it’s already one of the best. I’m meh on Athens proposals. 
 

others sounds good to me all else equal

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The currently made patches:

1) Macedonians: Storehouse technologies are researched instantly ⚙ D4234 [gameplay] Macedonian bonus - Instant storehouse technology research time. (wildfiregames.com)

2) Romans: +5 Worker carry capacity. ⚙ D4239 [gameplay] Roman bonus - Increased resource carry capacity (wildfiregames.com) Could easily be switched for an increased wood gather rate.

3) Kushites: Fields, Fishing ships, and Corrals are 50% cheaper. ⚙ D4233 [gameplay] Kushite bonus - cheaper farms, corrals, fishing ships. (wildfiregames.com)

4) Athenians: Faster technology research time. More of a military bonus than an economical one. ⚙ D3675 [Gameplay] Athenian bonus - faster technology research time (wildfiregames.com)

 

Quote
  • Britons: instant phase research and -30% cost (no historical explanation yet: its just a fun and powerful bonus)

Instant and cheaper seems a bit overkill. Could also just return the bonus they had in a23, where many buildings gave additional population space. The problem there is that the bonus just existed without any explanation and would have to come up with a name and history.

Quote
  • Gauls could be upgraded to -30% blacksmith costs.

Like on top of their teambonus? I don't want to do pure military bonuses for now, just economy or hybrid. The Gauls could actually get a woodcutting bonus as they did have immense forests.

On 10/09/2021 at 7:49 PM, BreakfastBurrito_007 said:

Athens: slingers -10 stone or metal cost (if in future there is champion slinger: -5 of both). OP mining history

They do actually already have a mining bonus but it's quite trash, which is probably why I had completely forgot about it. The problem is it only starts in P2 and thus doesn't end up being as impactful. Moving it up to P1 makes sense to me.

On 10/09/2021 at 7:49 PM, BreakfastBurrito_007 said:

Seleucids: -20% cc cost could be extended to barracks and stable for whole team. And upgraded to -30%. I feel it is less strategic to have -10% on all technologies because it is not specific enough.

I don't want to touch their teambonus right now as I feel like territory and CC costs need a bit of an overhaul in general but that's a different thing. The tech bonus hasn't been done either as I wasn't really sure about it.

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4 minutes ago, ValihrAnt said:

They do actually already have a mining bonus but it's quite trash, which is probably why I had completely forgot about it. The problem is it only starts in P2 and thus doesn't end up being as impactful. Moving it up to P1 makes sense to me.

Agree--never liked that. 

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Oops, I thought we we were talking team bonuses, which are definitely also in need. I like all the ones that are current patches. I think it is appropriate to make these of different net economic effect. For example it is probably ok for Romans to just have +5 carrying capacity since they already give themselves that team bonus of -10% inf train time. 

In the meantime I will think about some for other civs.

 

 

 

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First of all, I think it is a pity if the game would become like age of empires 2, where each faction is expected to have an economy bonus and civilizations become very much their economy bonus. That would also make balancing more difficult as we would not only be bothered with tech tree, but also with economy bonusses for balancing. I prefer to create something that really suits the faction identity and make current ones more explicit. So I would toss the following ideas:

Celtic factions: For me, celtic factions seem to be more about fast development than about a strong lategame. They have the wooden construction bonus, which makes building 20% faster to build, but have 20% less hit points and capture points. It might be a nice idea to double down on this identity and also give the celtic faction on top of that -20 stone cost for building.
Persians: Put the levy upgrades in  p1 for a quantity over quality approach. It makes your soldiers being trained faster at the cost of 300 food. The additional cost is of course that in the 40 seconds it is researched, no units can be trained.
Kushites: The kushites have their iconic pyramids and I like to double down on that in order to distinguish the faction more from others. So I would suggest making the small pyramid available in p1, giving Kushites a boost to the economy in p1, but it needs to be strategically placed. Also, since the pyramids are associated with their culture we could make turn it into an extra research location for culture/spiritual related technologies, such as archery tradition,archery training, monumental architecture, conscription and will to fight.

 

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3 hours ago, LetswaveaBook said:

The additional cost is of course that in the 40 seconds it is researched, no units can be trained.
Kushites: The kushites have their iconic pyramids and I like to double down on that in order to distinguish the faction more from others. So I would suggest making the small pyramid available in p1, giving Kushites a boost to the economy in p1, but it needs to be strategically placed

I like these in particular, because it seems the "boom" sequence for the civs is all too similar. A small pyramid could be made with starting resources and it would be interesting where to put the first one, and how long should one wait to get it?

I like the levy upgrade being in p1 as well. In p1, upgrades are a convenient way to spend extra resources when you have an imbalance, or you are housed.This keeps those resources from being wasted by not being spent immediately.

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An idea that seems interesting to me is to adjust the Kushite Small pyramid to work as a more unique economy bonus, by @LetswaveaBook. Currently it is a P2 building with a decent cost and build time, unfortunately it's rare to see more than one built anywhere else than the farming economy. Moving it to P1 with a reduced cost, build time and possibly range adjustment could be really interesting. It's a bonus that requires initial investment but in return can affect every resource, another weakness is that in a rush it can be captured and destroyed by the enemy. My initial idea is 100 Stone cost, 120 sec build time and 50m Range.

Any thoughts on this?

Edited by ValihrAnt
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10 minutes ago, ValihrAnt said:

My initial idea is 100 Stone cost, 120 sec build time and 50m Range.

I would like to keep it fairly expensive, to make the decision when to place it difficult. So you would not place it to early and it won't be spammed.

So I would go with 200s,100m and 150 seconds build time. Which means you can place a barracks and a pyramid with their 300 starting stone. Also the 100 metal is just what you have left after doing the wood and farming upgrade. So you get one to place wisely.

Also I would enjoy it if building 1 pyramid, 1 barracks and going to p2 for camel merc rush would be a viable strategy. Maybe make those merc camps cheaper as well?

If you want to boom with 3 barracks, I feel like the pyramid thing should only be a minor bonus.

 

 

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I have been chatting somewhat with ValihrAnt in the lobby about balance. He mentioned the Gallic bonus that used to grant population space to farmstead, storehouse, barracks and some others. Such a bonus would be a generic bonus that helps but is directed at something particular. So that bonus also could just mean that booming becomes more desirable.

So this raises the question: What do you want the bonus to do?

For Gauls I would imagine a faction that is limited in the lategame, but has a good rush/midgame (That is the typical RTS logic, if a faction has a good eco it should have disadvantages in the lategame). If we think about what is special about the Gallic midgame, there are two things that come to mind first. The harvesting machine technology, which used to be a better deal than the second farming upgrade. From a balance perspective, I dislike that it is now no longer a better deal. The other is the naked fanatic and if we want to encourage mid game play, I think we could look at this unit. So what I would like to transform it into, is a champion that cheaper (80f,50W,40M), trains faster and moves faster but falls off in the lategame (not affected by armor upgrades since it is naked). So in p2 it would potentially be a viable option for replacing sword cav as a rush unit. The units should be balanced such that both the sword cavalry and the naked fanatic have their advantages. Oh, I remember third thing which is impactful for the Gallic midgame, Their cavalry has 30% more attack. Oh, wait... It is only a meagre 10%.

So this is not a post about economic bonuses, but it raises the question: Do we need economic bonuses and why a certain faction needs it?

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The structure population bonus was quite liked in the community and allowed players to have a different starting build, so it's a bonus that I'd like to see returned and wanted to ask for input from @Genava55, @Nescio and others before making a patch for this. 

I understand that the Celts didn't really have any historical justification for having this bonus and from what I found the Athenians would be a good alternative. In 479 BC the city was atleast partly destroyed by the Persians. The evacuation and later rebuilding of the city seems to me as fitting justification for this bonus.

 

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On 20/09/2021 at 1:00 PM, LetswaveaBook said:

Also I would enjoy it if building 1 pyramid, 1 barracks and going to p2 for camel merc rush would be a viable strategy. Maybe make those merc camps cheaper as well?

A cool extra gameplay detail with this would be trying to get 2 metal mines within range of the pyramid if you want to make a lot of mercs.

Players have been talking about possibly differentiating the starting units to shape an eco advantage. For persians, it could be they start with 8 women and 2 cav, rather than 4 women 4 men and 1 cav. Does this add enough differentiation or enough eco bonus to be worthwhile? What do you guys think?

My thinking is that they already have one of the best late game eco with Apadanas and +10% population, so any additional bonus given to them should not be an inherent or long lasting bonus. I like giving them this because it would help them survive the early game/play it differently. 

I suppose an alternative could be to have only an extra horse rather than changing 4 men to women.

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26 minutes ago, ValihrAnt said:

The structure population bonus was quite liked in the community and allowed players to have a different starting build, so it's a bonus that I'd like to see returned and wanted to ask for input from @Genava55, @Nescio and others before making a patch for this. 

I understand that the Celts didn't really have any historical justification for having this bonus

I would like to toss another idea here. What do you think of replacing the javelin cavalry at the start with the faster sword cavalry? It would make their rush unique.

 

For Persians I think we could really do something with spear cavalry in p1. Maybe give them the unique option to train both the spear cavalry and the javelin cavalry in the CC.

32 minutes ago, BreakfastBurrito_007 said:

For persians, it could be they start with 8 women and 2 cav

I would personally prefer to let persians be a faction that booms slowly, but can get the extra 10% population and in addition get the apadana. In late game they are potent, so I would prefer them to have a weaker early game.

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15 minutes ago, LetswaveaBook said:

For Persians I think we could really do something with spear cavalry in p1. Maybe give them the unique option to train both the spear cavalry and the javelin cavalry in the CC.

I have not played persians very much this alpha, but one thing that stands out to me is that they are very vulnerable to rush, even among the other archer civs. Mauryans have an easier time making cavalry because they can hunt more usually, carthaginians have a power spike from an op unit in p2, Kushites can also train good mercenaries in p2 although they are not overpowered, and can also train pikes and swords which can help defend from p2 attacks. Persia on the other hand is pretty bare, only getting the skirmisher in p2 to help their defense.

Perhaps this bonus idea is not well used on persians because it does not help them that much. Also, many things that I mentioned that make persia weak in p1 and p2 are likely to change in the next alpha, like merc swordcav, hopefully spearcav like you have been discussing, and (I wish) the addition of attack-ground.

I think giving persians spearcav in addition to javelin cavalry in p1 would be a good compromise because it does not give them a direct eco advantage in p1 but it helps them survive the rushes from civs that do have that eco advantage in p1.

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1 hour ago, ValihrAnt said:

I understand that the Celts didn't really have any historical justification for having this bonus and from what I found the Athenians would be a good alternative. In 479 BC the city was atleast partly destroyed by the Persians. The evacuation and later rebuilding of the city seems to me as fitting justification for this bonus.

Any very urban civilization could claim this bonus, but probably Rome and Ptolemaic Egypt were the best in the matter of metropolis and large urban population. Ancient Carthage as well.

Rome, Alexandria and Carthage were probably the largest cities.

 

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9 hours ago, ValihrAnt said:

I understand that the Celts didn't really have any historical justification for having this bonus

IIRC The justification for the Celts was that they often had their houses double as their workshops. One of the original ideas would be that one could build houses and the houses can be upgraded into e.g. a forge, or a market, instead of directly placing one.

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1 hour ago, Freagarach said:

One of the original ideas would be that one could build houses and the houses can be upgraded into e.g. a forge, or a market, instead of directly placing one.

Do you know why this was not done in the end? Was there a discussion deciding against it or just time constraints?

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I mean we could make the footprint sizes for these buildings for the celts the same (could work for houses, farmstead and storehouse) Maybe adjust the model size a little bit so it doesn't look too off.

Or just as an idea to also include forge, market ect. We could group multiple of the small houses into one "multiple house building" and increase price and population space accordingly. Should have roughly the same footprint size then, but will also have implications for the early game.

Alternatively we could just increase the footprint of the small houses to be really big for them with the argument: houses need space in-between so people can reach it.

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