Thread for posting suggestions for Alpha 26

[Gurken Khan]

I kinda like the Ngorongoro map while I also kinda hate it. While I think games can be kinda epic on it, I really wish it would get an overhaul.

That most starting positions don't have a Hinterland: ok. That there's a ridiculous and annoying amount of savage animals, especially the lions (even with their new and especially annoying AI): ok.

What I really don't like is the 'interesting' (=rubbish) terrain around most starting positions. When I start out in that hole in the SW I immediately ditch that game; f that s. What made me quit my last game was this metal deposit on the hillside:

Even when I only had five units on it I repeatedly had to tell them that yes, they're supposed to mine there. Is anyone enjoying games where units have difficulties reaching their starting metal?

Spoiler

The only example worse than this I can remember was on the (flawed in multiple ways) Mediterranean map, where the ~France starting position had its metal in the Alps and ~3 units could effectively work on it.

 

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

2 hours ago, Gurken Khan said:

I kinda like the Ngorongoro map while I also kinda hate it. While I think games can be kinda epic on it, I really wish it would get an overhaul.

That most starting positions don't have a Hinterland: ok. That there's a ridiculous and annoying amount of savage animals, especially the lions (even with their new and especially annoying AI): ok.

What I really don't like is the 'interesting' (=rubbish) terrain around most starting positions. When I start out in that hole in the SW I immediately ditch that game; f that s. What made me quit my last game was this metal deposit on the hillside:

Even when I only had five units on it I repeatedly had to tell them that yes, they're supposed to mine there. Is anyone enjoying games where units have difficulties reaching their starting metal?

  Hide contents

The only example worse than this I can remember was on the (flawed in multiple ways) Mediterranean map, where the ~France starting position had its metal in the Alps and ~3 units could effectively work on it.

 

I love the idea of the map, but it does need a hard revamp. Better to not use satellite height map data and go with a nice round crater. 

 

Heavily wooded along the sides, but the middle mainly green grasslands with a shallow (fordable) lake (Lake Magadi) in the middle during wet season. Players can be arrayed around the rim, on the outside, or on the inside of the crater.

 

Dry season would use dirt and yellow grass in the middle with maybe just a mud texture where the lake would be:

 

Aerial view:

Edited April 16 by wowgetoffyourcellphone

[real_tabasco_sauce]

I think it would be cool to have players start on the banks of the central lake in a circle with the rim and woods closer to the edge of the map! Sounds fun, like a "good for multiplayer" version of the current Ngorongoro map.

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

15 minutes ago, real_tabasco_sauce said:

I think it would be cool to have players start on the banks of the central lake in a circle with the rim and woods closer to the edge of the map! Sounds fun, like a "good for multiplayer" version of the current Ngorongoro map.

I agree it sounds nice. I think the "current version" should just be replaced by this new one though. I'll amend my post and say that the Dry Season variant would still have the lake, just fordable (but not buildable), while the Wet Season variation would have a deeper, unfordable lake. 

[maroder]

Something like this? (ofc with a suitable biome)

 

Edited April 16 by maroder

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

10 hours ago, maroder said:

Something like this? (ofc with a suitable biome)

 

Yes! Very close indeed! Are the tops of the cliffs accessible? I'd scatter Acacias in the central area (not too many, just some stragglers) and then some thicker forests at the base of the cliffs.

[Lion.Kanzen]

Dry seasons sounds good.

almost everything looks dead in this season.

[maroder]

11 hours ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

Yes! Very close indeed! Are the tops of the cliffs accessible? I'd scatter Acacias in the central area (not too many, just some stragglers) and then some thicker forests at the base of the cliffs.

Yes they are. Sounds good, I put it on the list for a27.

[Nobbi]

Some more wishes from my side for  a26:

• Show number of allowed spectators for multiplayer games, so you don't need to try to join when limit is already reached
• In lobby or game chat never put your own name first when auto completion of a players name is used, I rarely write to myself
• Please add team population, making it simpler to play games with uneven numbers of players or when players resign to early, so teams can have the same population regardless of the amount of players (similar to world pop, but just for the teams)

[Kieranthegreat]

just quick: to make formations move more fluidly around obstacles 

[AIEND]

Some wordings in the Han Dynasty need to be corrected.
The name of the faction is either directly called China, or directly called Han, because Han itself is the country name like Rome, and the name of "Han Chinese" is very strange.

[Lion.Kanzen]

3 hours ago, AIEND said:

Some wordings in the Han Dynasty need to be corrected.
The name of the faction is either directly called China, or directly called Han, because Han itself is the country name like Rome, and the name of "Han Chinese" is very strange.

it is difficult to put a demonym in Western language.

Is like "Hanians"

The most correct is Han Dynasty. But still not equivalent to "Romans"

[Philip the Swaggerless]

1 hour ago, Lion.Kanzen said:

it is difficult to put a demonym in Western language.

Is like "Hanians"

The most correct is Han Dynasty. But still not equivalent to "Romans"

Just use Han for everything right? 

The Han culture. Han music. Han art.

The Han people. Han soldiers.

The Han are advancing. 

[BreakfastBurrito_007]

19 minutes ago, Philip the Swaggerless said:

Just use Han for everything right? 

The Han culture. Han music. Han art.

The Han people. Han soldiers.

The Han are advancing. 

As best I know, this is how it is done in english.

[Lion.Kanzen]

1 hour ago, Philip the Swaggerless said:

Just use Han for everything right? 

The Han culture. Han music. Han art.

The Han people. Han soldiers.

The Han are advancing. 

In Spanish there is no clear nomenclature for Han And it is difficult to translate "Chinese Han." and it is understandable that both Spanish and English have this in common with the demonyms.

It looks like "Chinos de Han" ( Chinese of/from Han) literally.

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

6 hours ago, AIEND said:

Some wordings in the Han Dynasty need to be corrected.
The name of the faction is either directly called China, or directly called Han, because Han itself is the country name like Rome, and the name of "Han Chinese" is very strange.

"Han Chinese" is correct English, but may sound awkward in other languages. I am okay with "renaming" them to either Han or Chinese. The point was to distinguish them from the other Chinese dynasties, and similarly, I'd love to rename the "Romans" to "Republican Romans" and Persians to Achaemenid Persians. China, Persia, and Rome had thousands of years of history and they had different dynasties/political upheavals throughout the time period of our game, so specifying which time period of these culture we are portraying is my preference. But........ if it makes it much simpler to call them the "Chinese" or "Han" instead, especially since we don't use qualifying language for any of the other civs, I'm fine with it. Most of the civ's art is called "han_" and "han/".

 

@Stan` thoughts? In our release text, we can call them "Han Chinese" so even the laymen can understand what civ it is, but in game they could simply be "Han" or "Chinese", since we don't bother with Republican Romans or Seleucid Syrians. Another example is the Ptolemies. They are often referred to as the "Ptolemaic Egyptians" to make it clear that they are an Egyptian faction, but the civ itself is just called the "Ptolemies."

Edited May 2 by wowgetoffyourcellphone

[Stan`]

1 hour ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

@Stan` thoughts

 No strong feeling. Do note however that this extra work for translators

[AIEND]

2 小时前，wowgetoffyourcellphone 说：

“Han Chinese”是 正确的英语 ，但在其他语言中可能听起来很尴尬。 我可以将它们“重命名”为汉文或中文。 关键是将他们与其他中国朝代区分开来，同样，我很想将“罗马人”重命名为“共和党罗马人”，将波斯人重命名为阿契美尼德波斯人。 中国、波斯和罗马有着数千年的历史，并且在我们游戏的整个时间段内经历了不同的朝代/政治动荡，因此我更喜欢具体说明我们所描绘的这些文化的哪个时间段。 但是........如果更简单地称他们为“中国人”或“汉人”，特别是因为我们不使用任何其他文明的限定语言，我可以接受. 大多数文明的艺术被称为“han_”和“han/”。

In fact, Han was used as the invariable name of the country in ancient times, just like "中国ZhonGuo" used by the Chinese now, whether it is the Tang Dynasty, Song Dynasty, Ming Dynasty, they will call themselves "Han", and neighboring countries will also call China like this , so "Han" and "China" actually mean the same thing.

Edited May 2 by AIEND

[Sevda]

2 hours ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

In our release text, we can call them "Han Chinese" so even the laymen can understand what civ it is,

I would recommend using HAN DYNASTY (汉朝)

Why not Han China: the concept of China didn't exist at the time, 'China' is a completely foreign word and most people in China don't understand why they are given this nickname. 

Why not just Han: ambiguous. Han on rising accent could be 韩， which either means Korea or a kingdom with that name which existed shortly in the Mainland. 汉 itself could still mean the ethnic group (especially in a modern context), although there were other minorities living in the empire (and still now), so just HAN is quite confusing. 

 

[Gurken Khan]

2 hours ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

we don't use qualifying language for any of the other civs

Generally I'm a friend of consistency, as well as of preciseness. If we want to be as historically correct as possible, and maybe even have an educational approach, I don't think we should treat thousands of years too coarsely. So I'm leaning towards using qualifying language for all our civs.

 

1 hour ago, Stan` said:

 Do note however that this extra work for translators

They'll feel important!

It will also be some work for the English editors, but I guess with 'search & replace' it should be manageable. Maybe we could also decide to use those 'full' names only in headings.

 

9 minutes ago, AIEND said:

In fact, Han was used as the invariable name of the country in ancient times, just like "中国ZhonGuo" used by the Chinese now, whether it is the Tang Dynasty, Song Dynasty, Ming Dynasty, they will call themselves "Han", and neighboring countries will also call China like this , so "Han" and "China" actually mean the same thing.

Before I knew Han as an ethnic group, which is also what @wowgetoffyourcellphone's link seems to say. Maybe it should be 'Han Dynasty Chinese'?

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

3 minutes ago, AIEND said:

In fact, Han was used as the invariable name of the country in ancient times, just like "中国ZhonGuo" used by the Chinese now, whether it is the Tang Dynasty, Song Dynasty, Ming Dynasty, they will call themselves "Han", and neighboring countries will also call China like this , so "Han" and "China" actually mean the same thing.

In China and neighboring countries, yes. In English it's just called China throughout the ages, Song, Han, et al. distinguishing the period.

[Sevda]

Just now, Gurken Khan said:

'Han Dynasty Chinese'

I think we can say that they were one of the ancestors of what is now known as 'China' in the civ description or structure tree

[AIEND]

4 minutes ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

在中国和周边国家，是的。 在英语中，古往今来都被称为中国，宋、汉等。 区分时期。

So just "Han" is enough, Han Chinese is a bit similar to China Chinese.

[AIEND]

7分钟前，古尔肯汗说：

在我知道汉族是一个民族之前，这也是 @wowgetoffyourcellphone 的链接似乎在说的。 也许应该是“汉代中国人”？

I should say, "Han" is a race, a civilization, an empire and a dynasty at the same time.

[AIEND]

11 分钟前，Sevda 说：

 为什么不只是韩：模棱两可。 韩语的上升口音可能是韩，意思要么是韩国，要么是一个在大陆不久就存在的同名王国。 汉本身仍然可以指族群（尤其是在现代语境中），尽管帝国中还生活着其他少数民族（现在仍然如此），所以只有汉是相当混乱的。

"Han" will not be confused with "Korea", because the Chinese call Koreans "ZhaoXian", and the tone of "汉" is "hàn", and the tone of "韩" is "hán".