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Cavalry archer turret mechanic


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10 minutes ago, PyrrhicVictoryGuy said:

Oh thats neat, but i though egys used bows on their chariots , that's why I specified the Myceneans or Achaeans.

ok. If the default is changed then the mod will also change. 

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24 minutes ago, Dragonoar said:

Also, that attack speed nerf seems unnecessary. Ultimately it's the first shot of a massed horse archers that matters.

Keep in mind that as it exists now, the mechanic does not operate on a volley basis (neither does anything in 0ad). You can't even choose what target to attack with the mouse. As for the first shot being more important, do you mean in real life, in 0ad, or in most RTS games? As far as I know, the first shot only matters in 0ad if you hope to take out a high value target quickly.

Ideally there would still be advantages to stationary shooting from horses and it should probably make more dps overall.

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@Yekaterina I was wondering if it is possible to limit the shooting range for moving, non-chariot ranged units to the front 180 degrees?

Reasons:

  • no ones back is that flexible
  • allows melee cav to chase
  • gives the mechanic a weak side, so they should go toward or alongside an enemy but not away. This way they wont behave quite like siege towers.
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Just now, BreakfastBurrito_007 said:

I was wondering if it is possible to limit the shooting range for moving, non-chariot ranged units to the front 180 degrees?

It is difficult. I need to consult with other programmers. 

 

I am thinking about only giving this mechanic to chariots to distinguish them from regular cavalry. On chariots you should be able to throw stuff in any direction relatively easily. 

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16 minutes ago, Yekaterina said:

It is difficult. I need to consult with other programmers. 

 

I am thinking about only giving this mechanic to chariots to distinguish them from regular cavalry. On chariots you should be able to throw stuff in any direction relatively easily. 

That makes sense. This will probably make chariots more fun to use. It is probably also more balance-risk to enable this for non-chariot units.

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2 minutes ago, BreakfastBurrito_007 said:

That makes sense. This will probably make chariots more fun to use. It is probably also more balance-risk to enable this for non-chariot units.

Summon more balancing advisors to discuss chariots?

Should I make this patch? 

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5 hours ago, BreakfastBurrito_007 said:

I was wondering if it is possible to limit the shooting range for moving, non-chariot ranged units to the front 180 degrees?

There is a proof of concept lying around, but it is far from finished (and outdated).

4 hours ago, Yekaterina said:

Should I make this patch?

Do note that using BuildingAI for the turret mechanic will probably not be favoured, since the unit misses the animation. That said, with the current mechanics one *can* use turrets for chariots, but ordering them will not behave as expected. In short: You can make a patch, but I think the chances are slim it will be implemented, unless someone improves the handling.

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18 hours ago, BreakfastBurrito_007 said:

 

Keep in mind that as it exists now, the mechanic does not operate on a volley basis (neither does anything in 0ad). As for the first shot being more important, do you mean in real life, in 0ad, or in most RTS games? As far as I know, the first shot only matters in 0ad if you hope to take out a high value target quickly.

Ideally there would still be advantages to stationary shooting from horses and it should probably make more dps overall.

You're right. I underestimated how slow horse archers are in 0 AD, as I was thinking of the mangudai in AoE2 when I wrote that. But I'm still against the accuracy debuff, simply because it's annoying and I don't like RNG.

I don't understand what you mean by this, though:

18 hours ago, BreakfastBurrito_007 said:

You can't even choose what target to attack with the mouse. 

 

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18 minutes ago, Dragonoar said:

don't understand what you mean by this, though:

18 hours ago, BreakfastBurrito_007 said:

Sometimes the archers don't shoot at the target that you right-clicked, instead they shoot at something else. This is also a problem with catapults. 

Also sometimes the model sizes are too small to be clicked on accurately. 

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17 minutes ago, Yekaterina said:

Sometimes the archers don't shoot at the target that you right-clicked, instead they shoot at something else. This is also a problem with catapults.

When a selected target didn't get hit I attributed it to spread.

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19 hours ago, BreakfastBurrito_007 said:

@Yekaterina I was wondering if it is possible to limit the shooting range for moving, non-chariot ranged units to the front 180 degrees?

Reasons:

  • no ones back is that flexible
  • allows melee cav to chase
  • gives the mechanic a weak side, so they should go toward or alongside an enemy but not away. This way they wont behave quite like siege towers.

Actually, horse archers were famously capable of shooting at the back of their horses (partian shot). Instead, they had probably more problems while shooting at their weak arm side.

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57 minutes ago, alre said:

Actually, horse archers were famously capable of shooting at the back of their horses (partian shot). Instead, they had probably more problems while shooting at their weak arm side.

Indeed, so for realism it would probably need to be like a 180 degree angle from the front to back on the right side, then we would probably need a range indicator. This would mean that cav archers seeking to circle an army and continuously launch arrows would need to do so clockwise, and thus have a more predictable path if the defender knows this information.

This is all quite complicated for non-chariot units, so I think it is a good thing to try chariots first.

As for the Parthian shot, I totally should have remembered this from the history books!

 

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