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starting with a spear cavalry


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Personally I think playing a faction with spear cav is interesting, as it is the faster unit and with its better defenses, it is nice for raiding. I would like to see more than just Romans and Macedonians starting with a spear cavalry in p1. What we could do as a minor change, is interchanging the Javelin cavalry as the starting cavalry with a spear cavalry for some civilizations. This would only affect p1 and thus can be seen as a minor change. For clarity, I would abstain from giving Seleucids a CS spear cavalry as that would not be a minor change and I prefer subtle changes.

Available factions with a spear cavalry in p2 are Iberians, Kushites, Persian and Spartans.

If I had to make a choice, I would go for Spartans. I know how some historians feel about Spartan cavalry, but Spartan cavalry is in the game and why should their starting cavalry be a javelin cavalry?

On top of that, there is 1 faction that only gets a single CS cavalry in the form of a camel archer. From the 12 remaining factions, 6 of them have CS spear cavalry and only 2 have them in the CC. There are 11 factions  with a CS javelin cavalry and 10 out of these 11 factions start with a CS javelin cavalry. I think we change that for one of these factions.

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I would agree generally with what you have said, and at one point I proposed the first phase generally starting with only one infantry, one ranged infantry, and one melee cavalry available to train.  

I would however contend that Sparta would be better served starting with a Skiritae unit (assuming that they actually would be fast like they were in alpha 23) as a replacement for a cavalry unit.  This would have to be balanced in a way so that they could not be overly penalised from an economic perspective.

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1 hour ago, Thorfinn the Shallow Minded said:

I would however contend that Sparta would be better served starting with a Skiritae unit (assuming that they actually would be fast like they were in alpha 23) as a replacement for a cavalry unit.  This would have to be balanced in a way so that they could not be overly penalised from an economic perspective.

If we had scout units, then Skiritai could be their scout with a buffed hunting ability.

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Shouldn't light cavalry (javelinist cavalry) be faster and more manoeuvreable than the spear cavalry?They are lighter armoured and the javelin is lighter than a spear, so the horse should be able to run a bit faster.

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2 hours ago, Yekaterina said:

Shouldn't light cavalry (javelinist cavalry) be faster and more manoeuvreable than the spear cavalry?They are lighter armoured and the javelin is lighter than a spear, so the horse should be able to run a bit faster.

No, because ranged cav could then just do hit and run, that would suck. So its better that melee cav is faster

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8 hours ago, Player of 0AD said:

No, because ranged cav could then just do hit and run, that would suck. So its better that melee cav is faster

This can be changed by longer preparetime. Also only javelinist cavalry should be fast, archer cavalry stay slow. 

Another idea: distinguish horses and camels 

Camels get higher health but slower speed, cavalry get lower health but higher speed. 

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2 hours ago, Yekaterina said:

This can be changed by longer preparetime. Also only javelinist cavalry should be fast, archer cavalry stay slow. 

 

Doesnt help much: Ranged cav can just flee then in danger without punishment. And go somewhere else to strike there.

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2 hours ago, Yekaterina said:

Camels get higher health but slower speed, cavalry get lower health but higher speed. 

There was a patch proposed for that.

12 minutes ago, Player of 0AD said:

Doesnt help much: Ranged cav can just flee then in danger without punishment. And go somewhere else to strike there.

Provided that they would be countered by ranged infantry, that wouldn't be a problem.  Personally I prefer not forcing players to default to one major unit type as a counter however.

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9 hours ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

Reduce ranged cav attack range so that ranged footmen can out-range them.

Nice idea. The cavalry javelineers were not able to throw too far with good accuracy. But meanwhile we do not want to nerf them too much so that they ares still useful in late game. 

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