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There have been some concerns of endless 4v4s. I play mostly 1v1s and they seem fine, so that makes me believe that the problem lies not something with they unit/building/technology statistics, but rather the problem lies with the 4v4 settings. Unfortunately, we don´t know because there are not enough creative maps and everyone just starts in a circle. To illustrate my point, I made a few drawings.

The black circle denotes the edge of the map and the red/blue circles denote the territories of the red/blue player/team. In drawings 1 we see the 1v1 matchup on a small map, which by experiment has shown to be fine. In drawing number 2, we see a bigger map with the same distances, however the map is bigger and thus has more resources. On top of that, whereas in drawing 1 you can not be attacked from the back(edge of the map blocks it), in drawing 2 the opponent can attack you from behind. So I would say that drawing number 2 gives a little more possibilities for aggression. Drawing 3 gives the situation for a 1v1 on a medium map and from my experience, the gameplay is not optimal under these conditions.

Drawing number 4 provides the situation for current team games. We see that the pocket players are in a fairly save position since the distances are fairly large. The players on the flanks need only 2 fortresses to fully defend their territory since the blue player on the left flank does not need to expect attacks from the left or behind and in the case he is attacked from the right, the attackers quickly might find themselves outnumbered as the allied pockets might come to help.

In drawig number 5 I put the pocket player closer to the center, which means that an attack through the center becomes more viable and if cavalry gets past the fortifications, they have a lot more space to hit and run from. I think this setup will make center control more important, meaning that every player will be on the frontline. In drawing 5.1 I put the pocket players closer to the frontline. In theory you could extend this until the players form a straight line and we have 4 separate 1v1s.

In drawing 6, I show an idea to create 3 separate 1v1 and 1 retracted player for each team. I don´t know how that would work out.

In drawing 7, I made the map bigger, but the individual players keep their their distances to each other. This would allow people to be attacked from different directions and that might help to make the game less turtly.

 

If you have any ideas about this or know how to create a map with some of these changes in the map generator script, I would be glad to hear from you.

playerpos.png

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there are already different options, like stronghold, ircanian shores, continent, also migration and red sea and others still, like empire and frontier...

but people always want to play mainland.

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3 hours ago, LetswaveaBook said:

In drawig number 5 I put the pocket player closer to the center

Here is a mod which does that for Mainland:different_starting_position.zip

The teams are placed in two lines parallel to each other.

 

If you want to know more you need to check out the scripts which generate the different maps and the rmgen and rmgen-common libraries.

 

 

Edited by maroder
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mmmh if someone wants to play like mainland but with players in a row instead of a semicircle, (playerPlacementRiver), one can already play Scythian Rivulet. Is mainland mandatory somehow?

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4 hours ago, LetswaveaBook said:

There have been some concerns of endless 4v4s. I play mostly 1v1s and they seem fine, so that makes me believe that the problem lies not something with they unit/building/technology statistics, but rather the problem lies with the 4v4 settings. Unfortunately, we don´t know because there are not enough creative maps and everyone just starts in a circle. To illustrate my point, I made a few drawings.

The black circle denotes the edge of the map and the red/blue circles denote the territories of the red/blue player/team. In drawings 1 we see the 1v1 matchup on a small map, which by experiment has shown to be fine. In drawing number 2, we see a bigger map with the same distances, however the map is bigger and thus has more resources. On top of that, whereas in drawing 1 you can not be attacked from the back(edge of the map blocks it), in drawing 2 the opponent can attack you from behind. So I would say that drawing number 2 gives a little more possibilities for aggression. Drawing 3 gives the situation for a 1v1 on a medium map and from my experience, the gameplay is not optimal under these conditions.

Drawing number 4 provides the situation for current team games. We see that the pocket players are in a fairly save position since the distances are fairly large. The players on the flanks need only 2 fortresses to fully defend their territory since the blue player on the left flank does not need to expect attacks from the left or behind and in the case he is attacked from the right, the attackers quickly might find themselves outnumbered as the allied pockets might come to help.

In drawig number 5 I put the pocket player closer to the center, which means that an attack through the center becomes more viable and if cavalry gets past the fortifications, they have a lot more space to hit and run from. I think this setup will make center control more important, meaning that every player will be on the frontline. In drawing 5.1 I put the pocket players closer to the frontline. In theory you could extend this until the players form a straight line and we have 4 separate 1v1s.

In drawing 6, I show an idea to create 3 separate 1v1 and 1 retracted player for each team. I don´t know how that would work out.

In drawing 7, I made the map bigger, but the individual players keep their their distances to each other. This would allow people to be attacked from different directions and that might help to make the game less turtly.

 

If you have any ideas about this or know how to create a map with some of these changes in the map generator script, I would be glad to hear from you.

playerpos.png

3 and 4. I like to be away from the enemy.

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11 minutes ago, alre said:

mmmh if someone wants to play like mainland but with players in a row instead of a semicircle, (playerPlacementRiver), one can already play Scythian Rivulet. Is mainland mandatory somehow?

No, just wanted tho show @LetswaveaBook how such a change would look like and where he can find how this is done. :)

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my point is that players already have other options. the more the better, but what most players want is mainland, and a less turtly gameplay, but in mainland, and with players arranged as in mainland.

Edited by alre
made myself clearer
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Balanced maps has a grid configuration for starting positions in certain maps (slopes and bal hyrcanian shores). The algorithm can be adapted to make 6.

1. 2. 3. 4. and 7. is just adjusting the already existent place players in a circle algorithm (adjusting by map size and radius of circle)

5. and 5.1. is just adjusting the algorithm to use an ellipse with starting angle

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There is also an existing solution, just not available on most maps. Ambush and Frontier have Random Group team placement option which really mix things up on player locations. The teams are still together but they're spread around the map much more randomly and suddenly the points of interest change from game to game and can be all over the map, instead of players always funneling down the sides with the usual spawn locations.

It's also great for 1v1s as then you actually have to put some thought into trying to scout the enemy. Currently I can just click on the other side of the map and be done with it.

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