A25 Feedbacks from testing

[Stan`]

Vladislav is working on GUI optimizations.

[Yekaterina]

Big problem spotted: can you tell apart the berries from wood? The berry models really need be changed!

Also chickens are too small. 

[maroder]

If chicken are too small we should use other animals. But please no monster chicken.

[Stan`]

If the problem is selecting them, we can make their selection box bigger. See  https://trac.wildfiregames.com/changeset/25259

[Ceres]

Well, if I may chime in, I like the chicken - and the rabbits, too. Please consider not removing them. Thank you!

[Yekaterina]

Right now the berry model problem is more severe than chickens, although chicken problem needs addressing. Bigger selection box would be appreciated. 

 

Even better: generate with a mixture of chickens, sheep and pigs. That would settle the dispute for everyone and ancients did have a mixture of farm animals, not just chickens. 

[Lion.Kanzen]

20 minutes ago, Yekaterina said:

berry model problem is more severe than

In A25 it is already corrected.

[Ceres]

You mean that these animals would walk around as a kind of flock? Or surrounded by a fence to keep them in one place?

[Nobbi]

I stumbled over some things they might to be changed and sorry if I repeat anything because I didn't read all comments in the thread. Maybe some of the things can be still added/changed in a25.

General things:

• Cav can be garrisoned in barracks, but Inf can't be garrisoned in Stables, also units rank up when garrisoned in barracks but not when in stables, this is kind of inconsistent. I think there are several solutions. I find it alright when all kind of soldiers can be garrisoned in military buildings and also when the rank upgrade can be achieved in barracks and stables. It would make sense when Inf just could be promoted in barracks and Cav just in stables.
• Roman army camp should not lose ownership in neutral territory or in enemy territory from alone. Training time of units in the camp is 11 min. Is this on purpose? Other buildings have less training time now.
• When AI captured my Kush mercenary camp they were able to produce Kush mercenaries. The enemy had Gauls. As far as I know this wasn't possible so far. Is this new?
• In fights it easily happens that one gather resources instead of attacking the enemy. It would be good if attacking other units had priority before gathering resources. What I mean is, I wish that the mouse cursor would primary choose the enemy unit instead of the resource in front of the enemy unit.
• Civilisation overview needs to be updated, bonuses changed e.g. pop bonus of Pers and Maury, trade bonus of Mace
• I miss open knowledge of counter units and fighting bonuses. For spear men there its written 3 vs Cav, but its missing for other units, as far as I remember there are more bonuses, or am I wrong?
• If Team bonus of a Civ is valid for the Civ itself now, bonuses could appear in structure tree, e.g. Iber cost reduction of javelineer, Kush elephants, Brits healer, Maury temple, ...
• The stone mine can be mined from 48 men now, making the stone techs needles, you just use more soldiers instead of wasting metal. Why was it changed?

 

Balancing things

• Archers are to strong, just getting the same accuracy with upgrades wont solve the problem in mid or late game.
• From P1 to P2 you need 4 buildings of P1, but to change from P2 to P3 you now need just 3 buildings of P2? Feels wrong to me. Should be the other way around. For a later phase you should need more buildings than for an earlier phase.
• Kush are already strong, so getting the own team bonus will make them even stronger, elephants are very cheap then and they already have stronger rams. This is not good for balance. Maybe normal rams and the elephant bonus would also do it?
• For Ptol the mercenary with the hero Ptolemy I will be really cheap. 39 M for Inf and 52 M for Cav. I think its good if mercenaries will come back to the game, but I think this might be OP. As someone mentioned before mercenaries which just cost metal you just need trade as economy. Why were Food cost reduced?

 

My general feeling is with the actual changes the game will be much faster than it was before, might even be faster than in a23.

 

[Yekaterina]

42 minutes ago, Nobbi said:

My general feeling is with the actual changes the game will be much faster than it was before, might even be faster than in a23.

This point has been suggested by Lion.Kanzen before. I haven't noticed a change in game pace, although A25 does feel more comfortable to play with than A24 due to its better pathfinding. We need some good skilled players to test out booming and rushing in A25 to determine just how fast it is and whether that is appropriate. 

[Yekaterina]

@Player of 0AD @chrstgtr @LetswaveaBook @ValihrAnt @borg- You guys are the best-skilled 0AD players I am aware of so can you test out booming in A25 to check just how fast it is? Thank you. 

[Yekaterina]

Another minor issue in the mod selector. This error message pops up but it does not affect anything though. Might just be very ridiculously programmed mods (I have a collection of A23 and A24 mods in the folder so that is within expectation). 

[Nobbi]

The game is quicker because:

• shorter production time of units
• less turning time
• less bumping in each other
• just 3 buildings needed for P3

Around 13 mins for P3 with civs like Romans or Macedonians without much hunt or extra berries is easy and I just have rating around 1400-1600. I guess better players can do it even in shorter time.

[Yekaterina]

20 minutes ago, Nobbi said:

Around 13 mins for P3 with civs like Romans or Macedonians without much hunt or extra berries is easy and I just have rating around 1400-1600. I guess better players can do it even in shorter time.

I can do that in A24 as well. 

I agree that better pathfinding makes booming faster. 

[wraitii]

Thanks @Nobbi, very insightful comment

9 hours ago, Nobbi said:

• Cav can be garrisoned in barracks, but Inf can't be garrisoned in Stables, also units rank up when garrisoned in barracks but not when in stables

Right. The latter has a patch for it, not the former. You can no longer train horses at the barracks, so I think we should just change the barracks here, for consistency.

9 hours ago, Nobbi said:

• Roman army camp should not lose ownership in neutral territory or in enemy territory from alone. Training time of units in the camp is 11 min. Is this on purpose? Other buildings have less training time now.

The decay is on purpose, though whether it should be changed is an open question. Not sure what you mean about train time.

9 hours ago, Nobbi said:

• When AI captured my Kush mercenary camp they were able to produce Kush mercenaries. The enemy had Gauls. As far as I know this wasn't possible so far. Is this new?

Yes

9 hours ago, Nobbi said:

• In fights it easily happens that one gather resources instead of attacking the enemy. It would be good if attacking other units had priority before gathering resources. What I mean is, I wish that the mouse cursor would primary choose the enemy unit instead of the resource in front of the enemy unit.

Made a ticket for that, it's less trivial than other things.

9 hours ago, Nobbi said:

• I miss open knowledge of counter units and fighting bonuses. For spear men there its written 3 vs Cav, but its missing for other units, as far as I remember there are more bonuses, or am I wrong?

You are indeed incorrect, there are no other bonuses in A24/25 (so far)

9 hours ago, Nobbi said:

• If Team bonus of a Civ is valid for the Civ itself now, bonuses could appear in structure tree, e.g. Iber cost reduction of javelineer, Kush elephants, Brits healer, Maury temple, ...

Mmh, that sounds like a bug indeed.

9 hours ago, Nobbi said:

• From P1 to P2 you need 4 buildings of P1, but to change from P2 to P3 you now need just 3 buildings of P2? Feels wrong to me. Should be the other way around. For a later phase you should need more buildings than for an earlier phase.

I don't necessarily disagree, but I think removing towers was a good move and we don't really have more than 3 town-phase buildings as things stand, so it's simply not possible.

 

[LetswaveaBook]

10 hours ago, Yekaterina said:

You guys are the best-skilled 0AD players I am aware of so can you test out booming in A25 to check just how fast it is? Thank you. 

I failed to instal the SVN

[Yekaterina]

4 minutes ago, LetswaveaBook said:

I failed to instal the SVN

Which operating system are you on? If you are on Windows, install tortoisegit and be sure to check the "cli" option when installing. On one of the steps it shows you which components are going to be installed, so just tick all of them. 

If you are on linux, sudo pkgmanager install subversion

[ValihrAnt]

On the Alpine biome stone spawns are scuffed. 10k or 15k of stone spawning in the same spot. I suppose the 1k mines were replaced with 5k mines but the generation wasn't changed.

For Mainland the Eurasian Steppe biome is the only without its own preview picture and instead shares one with the Temperate biome.

The Nubia biome has some superbly unfair wood spawns (on Mainland atleast). The Acacia canopies look very nice but make it nigh impossible to tell how many trees there are near them.

The India biome description advertises tigers that aren't spawned.

This is probably more for the next release but would it be possible to select which biomes you want the game to choose between. The India biome is very resource intensive and thus will be avoided for TGs and maps with scarce resources are also generally disliked, leading to a lot of hosts just sticking to 1 picked biome entirely. Would mean that the disliked biomes don't make Alpine into the default biome for a lot of hosts.

Quote

can you test out booming in A25 to check just how fast it is?

It's about the same as it was A23. Going for a very fast P3 slightly easier but riskier as towers don't count for the required buildings. The high metal costs for eco techs slow things down slightly for people being eco focused.

Edited June 2, 2021 by ValihrAnt
Didn't realise I had a mod still enabled by default.

[Stan`]

If you don't want to compile though you'll have to install SVN. Where did it fail? Can I help you?

[Stan`]

4 minutes ago, ValihrAnt said:

On the Alpine biome stone spawns are scuffed. 10k or 15k of stone spawning in the same spot. I suppose the 1k mines were replaced with 5k mines but the generation wasn't changed.

That's strange https://code.wildfiregames.com/rP8360 was the last time we changed the stonemine templates.
 

[maroder]

@Stan` the mines are probably an effect of the terrain update. But it also makes sense that the alpine biome has plenty of stone.

Edited June 2, 2021 by maroder

[soloooy0]

How can I send error reports ?
I have a couple with atena and roma.
mace not yet, but I haven't done much.
 

[Stan`]

31 minutes ago, maroder said:

@Stan` the mines are probably an effect of the terrain update. But it also makes sense that the alpine biome has plenty of stone.

I don't see how? Did maps use smaller actors before?

 

 

25 minutes ago, soloooy0 said:

How can I send error reports ?
I have a couple with atena and roma.
mace not yet, but I haven't done much.
 

Create a ticket on trac.wildfiregames.com

[Yekaterina]

26 minutes ago, soloooy0 said:

How can I send error reports ?
I have a couple with atena and roma.
mace not yet, but I haven't done much.
 

Please post them here

[soloooy0]

using the mod on the A24
with athens in phase 2 when I do the gym, I get a red error message and I can't get lancers from barracks, but from the cc, nothing appears in the gym and it's a useless structure, when I capture a barracks outside the territory it's not useful.
the same with the cavalry with sword, i can't take it out of the barracks
you can't use the gym in phase 2 or 3.
with rome directly the cc is not useful to take out troops.
do you use the mod in A24 or A25 svn?

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