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Civ Differentiation: Athens


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7 hours ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

Modify each hero template to only 1 trained.

Do notice that a training limit is not equal to the entity limit. So if you'd start with a specific hero, you indeed can train them again when that first one (not trained) dies. Which indeed might be a flaw in regicide games.

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32 minutes ago, Freagarach said:

Do notice that a training limit is not equal to the entity limit. So if you'd start with a specific hero, you indeed can train them again when that first one (not trained) dies. Which indeed might be a flaw in regicide games.

I mean, set <Hero>2</Hero> in player_athen.xml, then in each hero template set them to 1 max train per match (or whatever the component tag is). I think that should work to allow 2 different heroes to be trained at once, as @borg- wants to do.

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11 hours ago, Freagarach said:

Yes, it indeed does. But @borg- noticed there is a flaw with regicide: if you start with e.g. Leonidas as Sparta, you can train Leonidas as well (since the first one is not trained) thus ending up with two Leonidas.

Ooooo. Seems like a component issue then. Hmm. Or a gameplay mode code issue. Why can you train any heroes at all in that mode if you already start with your hero and his death is the goal of the mode? 

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I would like to suggest the following bonus for Athenians: Fertility Festival is 50% cheaper. I would like to strengthen this idea with the following points:

1(Gameplay): In competitive play, I know of 2 ways to boom on land maps. A: build a barracks asap while maintaining production. B: research Fertility Festival(from now on I refer to FF) asap. From my experience, option A is the most popular. I think it would be interesting if that choice would remain the same if FF would be cheaper. Researching FF early comes at some rewards(better boom) and risks(being rushed). If you research FF early, you will lack the barracks which you can compensate for by making men from the CC. Personally I think it might turn the mediocre boom in one of the top booms, however it comes with the risk of being rushed. On the other hand, it is a bonus worth only (125F.50W,50S) so I don´t think it makes them OP. It would be nice to see if cheaper FF would lead to adjustments in strategy.

2(History): The FF of Athens was the best known in the ancient world(I know other greekish civs also had similar FF, but athens seems most famous for it). Also Athenian society grew quickly (as I understood from Borgs comments), which is what FF does. Furthermore (I don´t know if it correct), I don´t associate the Athenians with a warlike culture so getting a lot of women fast would suit this idea.

3(Contrast to Sparta): Their big rivals the spartans have also a bonus for women which I find a nice contrast. Whereas Sparta get women better suited for emergency defence, this would give a nice contrast to the Athenians who seem to have a larger total population and are viewed as more cultural.

Each bonus in 0AD seems to have a name and I would like to suggest for this one Thesmophoria.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thesmophoria

btw: I need to give credits to the devs that originally added FF to the game.

Edited by LetswaveaBook
credits
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1 hour ago, LetswaveaBook said:

I would like to suggest the following bonus for Athenians: Fertility Festival is 50% cheaper. I would like to strengthen this idea with the following points:

I'm against this for a number of reasons: 

Women in Athenian society had little to no rights.  Actually having them have an active role in the workforce outside of potentially trading is generally an exception of the norm.  Honestly I would just have them be represented as props inside houses.

Athens already has a bonus to researching technologies.  Introducing this would be redundancy.  

If we want to represent Athens in an interesting light, I would look to the fact that in Athens slaves and metics were treated much better than the average place at least according to the Constitution of the Athenians (by Pseudo-Xenophon).  

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9 hours ago, LetswaveaBook said:

I would like to suggest the following bonus for Athenians: Fertility Festival is 50% cheaper. I would like to strengthen this idea with the following points:

1(Gameplay): In competitive play, I know of 2 ways to boom on land maps. A: build a barracks asap while maintaining production. B: research Fertility Festival(from now on I refer to FF) asap. From my experience, option A is the most popular. I think it would be interesting if that choice would remain the same if FF would be cheaper. Researching FF early comes at some rewards(better boom) and risks(being rushed). If you research FF early, you will lack the barracks which you can compensate for by making men from the CC. Personally I think it might turn the mediocre boom in one of the top booms, however it comes with the risk of being rushed. On the other hand, it is a bonus worth only (125F.50W,50S) so I don´t think it makes them OP. It would be nice to see if cheaper FF would lead to adjustments in strategy.

btw: I need to give credits to the devs that originally added FF to the game.

I like this idea for the reasons stated above. FF is currently a rarely used tech because the boom described above is almost always worse than a normal barrack boom. It would be nice to see another boom choice introduced to make more strategies (i.e. make a FF women boom faster than a barrack boom but still dangerous enough that a rush can ruin it). 

 

I would like to see this tech applied to some civ (even if it isn't Athens, which already has some nice features being added for next a25). 

Edited by chrstgtr
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6 hours ago, chrstgtr said:

I would like to see this tech applied to some civ (even if it isn't Athens, which already has some nice features being added for next a25). 

The Celts could be a reasonable alternative.  Authors such as Polybius were impressed by the dignity by which many Celtic women carried themselves.

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  • 2 months later...

In the bellum mod I gave athens the following:

1. Marathon Tech: all champions run 20% faster

2. Champion infantry javelinists in phase 2

Planned:

Triathlon tech - all units + 10% health and 10% attack. 

 

But I must say that in A25 Athens is a quite a strong civ with their unstoppable hoplites mixed with cavalry and siege. As long as Athens has enough metal it is arguably the strongest civ in the game. 

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