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Civ Differentiation: Athens


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Per borg-

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My initial ideas for bonus:

1- Athens was built quickly, mainly its largest buildings.

Buildings take less time to build (bonus civ).

2- Athens was like a capital for the world, receiving people from all over the world, including many "gifts" from other civilizations.

Allies can build any building in Athenian territory (bonus civ/team)

3- It is estimated that each Athenian citizen had a slave.

Only civilization that can train slaves on houses.

 

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53 minutes ago, wraitii said:

3- It is estimated that each Athenian citizen had a slave.

Mmmh... since the small number of Spartan citizens in regard of the population of Lacedemonia/Laconia, I think they were more intense in the slavery

Edit: yup https://medium.com/interesting-histories/interesting-histories-helots-the-slaves-of-sparta-46b70ebfdc05

Edited by Genava55
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I would say:

Heroes stronger than other civs on average

  • They're stronger, but cost more
  • A couple more hero or civic centered techs in the Prytaneion.

Wall Bonus

  • Something Something Piraeus Fortifications
  • Something Something Long Walls.
  • Something Something Themistoclean Walls.

Naval Bonuses

  • A couple extra techs or bonuses
    • Arsenal of Philon
    • Zea Ship Sheds

 

Focus Infantry Training on the Gymnasion. Make the Gymnasion more integral. Hoplites are the core unit. Focus most upgrades on this unit.

A free Stoa at the beginning of the match that grants some kind of civic or structural bonus. Once it's destroyed, the bonus is gone.

Edited by wowgetoffyourcellphone
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24 minutes ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

I would say:

Heroes stronger than other civs on average

  • They're stronger, but cost more
  • A couple more hero or civic centered techs in the Prytaneion.

Thanks for the suggestions.


Is there a historical basis for having heroes with more hit points?

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14 minutes ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

Dunno if there's a historical basis for hit points in general. ;) 

I think I expressed myself poorly, sorry. You said it stronger and I said more health. Maybe you understood that I was talking about all heroes. Well, my question was if there is anything that can provide a basis for having stronger heroes for athenas. Maybe they were heroes with notable deeds for example?

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4 minutes ago, borg- said:

I think I expressed myself poorly, sorry. You said it stronger and I said more health. Maybe you understood that I was talking about all heroes. Well, my question was if there is anything that can provide a basis for having stronger heroes for athenas. Maybe they were heroes with notable deeds for example?

I was thinking because you have to build a special structure for them, that there should be some kind of benefit for this. I don't have much justification for a health increase specifically. Perhaps a training time or cost reduction instead (DE gives a cost reduction).

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36 minutes ago, badosu said:

But I just said the same thing a few hours ago :laugh:

Yes haha.
Anyway, I think I can keep the idea of having slaves trained in houses for athenas and for sparta it can be slave soldiers.

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1 minute ago, Thorfinn the Shallow Minded said:

One thing I would add is that Athens was home to some of the greatest philosophers such as Socrates, Plato, Aristotle, Zeno, and Epicurus.  Even just a simple technology or two as a nod to them would be nice.  

Excellent.

Yes I only proposed the bonuses, however it is still necessary to rework the heroes auras and also my idea is that athenas will be the civilization with more unique techonologies in the game.

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4 minutes ago, borg- said:

Anyway, I think I can keep the idea of having slaves trained in houses for athenas and for sparta it can be slave soldiers.

I think the more accurate and civ differentiating approach would be for slaves to be the majority of sparta eco.

I'd keep slaves as a new unit just for this case to validate it works and keep the changes minimal.

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Quote

One thing I would add is that Athens was home to some of the greatest philosophers such as Socrates, Plato, Aristotle, Zeno, and Epicurus.  Even just a simple technology or two as a nod to them would be nice.  

Quote

Athens was the intellectual center of the world for awhile. Giving them cheaper techs would make sense. Almost like they automatically have a library. 

Yes, I like this very much.

Additionally, I really liked having a P2 champion meant for head on fighting. This is something that was removed together with the stoa, but from what I understand the unit itself wasn't too problematic (Rhomphaia/Black Cloak). So what about moving them to the barrack and having a tech to unlock them in P2? It would also mean that Athenians will now have atleast 1 trainable champion between the barrack and the stable.

This could also, of course, be done for the Macedonians or a different civilization it'd make more sense for. I just really like the idea of having a P2 champion for direct fights on top of the naked fanatics meant more for raiding.

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16 minutes ago, ValihrAnt said:

Yes, I like this very much.

Additionally, I really liked having a P2 champion meant for head on fighting. This is something that was removed together with the stoa, but from what I understand the unit itself wasn't too problematic (Rhomphaia/Black Cloak). So what about moving them to the barrack and having a tech to unlock them in P2? It would also mean that Athenians will now have atleast 1 trainable champion between the barrack and the stable.

This could also, of course, be done for the Macedonians or a different civilization it'd make more sense for. I just really like the idea of having a P2 champion for direct fights on top of the naked fanatics meant more for raiding.

Kind of a different subject than the thread, but I agree there should be more civs with p2 champs, especially since champs are now becoming more viable as a strategy. Just need to be careful not to make them too op. 

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2 hours ago, ValihrAnt said:

Additionally, I really liked having a P2 champion meant for head on fighting. This is something that was removed together with the stoa, but from what I understand the unit itself wasn't too problematic (Rhomphaia/Black Cloak). So what about moving them to the barrack and having a tech to unlock them in P2? It would also mean that Athenians will now have atleast 1 trainable champion between the barrack and the stable.

The stable would most likely not be the best choice since Athenian cavalry was nothing incredible.  There is a reasonable argument, however, to allowing the marine to be trained in a building like the barracks.  For that matter though, why not just have the gymnasium be available one age earlier with the marine trained there?

On a separate issue, the Scythian archer probably shouldn't be a champion for Athens unless it is potentially locked behind a technology.  They served as police, not frontline soldiers if I am not mistaken.

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Another potential idea:

One of ancient Athens most notable features was its democratic system of governance. In its democracy, leaders were randomly selected. These leaders basically ran the administrative tasks of the state for their term of a year.

To represent this random selection of leaders, there could be random "leaders" selected that provide a positive aura to those around them. This aura could be something like nearby workers get 15% work bonus. To make it more interesting the aura could vary depending on the unit type (i.e. slingers provide a 15% boost to nearby stone gathers, spears provide a 15% boost to metal gathers, women provide a 15% boost to wood gathers, etc.). Or something like putting a leader near a barrack makes the barrack produce units 10% faster. Also, if it is possible to change the "leader" every 5 minutes, so players can't just "set and forget" the leader on a particular resource. 

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We are advancing with athenas, @ValihrAnt make a patch to new civ bonus D3675.

I would like to give a bonus to some unit as well. It is known that the majority of Athena's military strength was their hoplites, so my idea is to give a -50% xp bonus required to increase rank and also a unique tech to considerably decrease training time.'

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47 minutes ago, borg- said:

would like to give a bonus to some unit as well. It is known that the majority of Athena's military strength was their hoplites, so my idea is to give a -50% xp bonus required to increase rank and also a unique tech to considerably decrease training time.'

Similar to "Archery Tradition", "Hoplite Tradition" could confer the -50% xp promotion bonus you mention. Athens and Sparta can both have this tech. 

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4 minutes ago, Thorfinn the Shallow Minded said:

 

Giving a bonus to the agora might be a decent start since that was where the citizenry assembled for voting.  

What kind of aura?
Free heroes also make sense to you?

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