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Please make it a little less ... sexist


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19 hours ago, Palaxin said:

Similar to many animal species, humans do have a sexual dimorphism, e.g. by nature men have a larger muscle mass on average (advantageous adaptation for hunting I guess) whereas women have a higher percentage of body fat on average (advantageous adaptation for pregnancy I guess). Depending on the activity/work, this dimorphism should translate into different work rates in some areas where the differences matter, e.g. where you have to use heavy tools or carry heavy load (lumbering, probably mining, but not gathering berries). At least this sounds reasonable and actually not offending to me. If you are looking for confirmation, compare the performances of women and men at the Olympic games.

While all of that may be true, I personally don't see the need to depict sexual dimorphism in an RTS game. We're not building an anthropology simulator after all. 

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1 hour ago, Thorfinn the Shallow Minded said:

We aren't?

At the "scale" of the game it's best to depict institutions rather than granular details like the relative strength of the average man and woman. So, the roles of the lower, middle, and upper classes might be ripe for depiction, while family dynamics could be best reserved for an RPG game or something similar (unless worked into the game in a very broad sense). Dunno, I haven't quite pinned down the working theory yet.

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On 01/12/2020 at 11:08 PM, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

At the "scale" of the game it's best to depict institutions rather than granular details like the relative strength of the average man and woman.

Ok, I can understand your reasoning, though I think depicting differences would still make it more interesting. Vanilla 0 A.D. just seems quite plain to me regarding unit variety (at least compared to AoE II with 35 civs with special units, unique techs etc. or AoM with a lot of choices through primary and secondary gods). The factions could profit a lot from fleshing out more differences, but that's another topic.

In the context of this thread I assumed equalizing the stats of women and men was proposed in order to address sexism which is not the best way IMO. Simply because women and men are not the same in every aspect on average, especially when it comes to some hard, measurable facts (and I would count work output in measurable units as one - of course depending on the kind of work). The question of sexism is a question of how they are seen, treated and what rights they have, and I think that is something extremely difficult to depict in an RTS with its limited scope and complexity. The problem is that 0 A.D. focuses almost exclusively on areas that were men's domain in the depicted timeframe and as already discussed we get conflicts with historic accuracy if we would derive from that... So depicting men and women in an ideal state (and what that is, is still somewhat subjective I'd say) would result in a non-historic, sci-fiction or fantasy game - which inherently carries a flavour of utopia since the world is imperfect...

On 29/11/2020 at 11:06 PM, Crea said:

I get the time frame women can't "fight" aspect of that time but could you at least make a little less sexist by making it so there are male gathers that also can't fight? Or making it so there are like amazon warriors? Or better yet both? Here's more on the amazon warriors: https://www.nationalgeographic.com/news/2014/10/141029-amazons-scythians-hunger-games-herodotus-ice-princess-tattoo-cannabis/

I would appreciate these proposals though as far as proven historic knowledge allows us to do and integration into the game concept as a whole would make sense.

Edited by Palaxin
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