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civ: Ethiopians


m7600
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My idea for Monastery was that it would work like a temple but it can garrison units, and instead of the normal healing aura it would have another aura (Units fight harder ? Faster gathering ? Nearby buildings research faster ?).

 

1 hour ago, m7600 said:

Edit: There's a unit which I don't think that exists in the main game, but it would be entirely possible to make: cavalry slingers. There's infantry slingers, but no cavalry that slings rocks. I think I'll reserve this unit for the Zimbabweans, I'm just writing it here so that I don't forget about it.

 

Not sure if Zimbabwe used much cavalry, or how common slings were in that part of the world.

Can't find many sources for mounted slingers in general, only some Roman descriptions of Germanics (Not clear if they dismounted before firing).

Edited by Ultimate Aurelian
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7 hours ago, Ultimate Aurelian said:

My idea for Monastery was that it would work like a temple but it can garrison units, and instead of the normal healing aura it would have another aura (Units fight harder ? Faster gathering ? Nearby buildings research faster ?).

I would go the other way. In my view, the monasteries should have no healing aura. The reason is that the monasteries where build in locations really hard to reach. Instead, I would give the priests a larger healing aura and power. In addition, I would let them walk faster.

4500.jpg?width=1920&quality=85&auto=form

source: https://www.theguardian.com/travel/gallery/2017/dec/14/ethiopia-living-churches-africa-travel-photography-christianity#img-7

4500.jpg?width=1920&quality=85&auto=form

source: https://www.theguardian.com/travel/gallery/2017/dec/14/ethiopia-living-churches-africa-travel-photography-christianity#img-8

Furthermore, the monasteries could train the Ethiopian heroes.  For two reasons. First:

Quote

From some undetermined time, it was the practice that when the Ethiopian emperor assumed the throne, his brothers and other male relatives would be taken to a royal prison, where they would henceforth live until either they were called forth to become the new emperor or they died. (source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amba_Geshen)

Both Debre Damo and Amba Geshen were used to jail the royal family. In addition, Amba Geshen was used to keep the treasury and for that reason was attacked and destroyed in 1540 by Ahmad ibn Ibrahim al-Ghazi.

Debre Damo

ET_Tigray_asv2018-01_img14_Debre_Damo_Mo

source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:ET_Tigray_asv2018-01_img14_Debre_Damo_Monastery.jpg

ET_Tigray_asv2018-01_img05_Debre_Damo_su

source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:ET_Tigray_asv2018-01_img05_Debre_Damo_surroundings.jpg

ET_Tigray_asv2018-01_img01_Debre_Damo_su

source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:ET_Tigray_asv2018-01_img01_Debre_Damo_surroundings.jpg

The king Zara Yaqob was kept in Amba Geshen for 20 years. He later, became one of the most powerful kings. However, the 20 years in Amba Geshen had some negative effects on his personality.

The second reason, why I believe heroes should be trained in monasteries, is the fact that Yekuno Amlak the first king of the Solomonic dynasty was educated at Lake Hayq's Istifanos Monastery .

Istifanos Monastery

lakehayk18.jpg

source: https://ethiopianwanderlust.com/2014/03/24/lake-hayk-enlivening-excursion-from-dessie-town/

Ahmad ibn Ibrahim al-Ghazi attacked the Istifanos Monastery in 1531. The monks were defenseless and gave the attacker valuable objects from the monastery to defend their lives.

However, the Istifanos Monastery still has important relics and copies of manuscripts from the 13th century.

In general, many monasteries have collections of manuscripts.

Dega Estefanos

The monastery of Gunda Gunde has a large collection of manuscripts. The Gunda Gunde monastery was build in the late 14th/early 15th century.

Well and Amda Seyon I should be trained from the monastery, because he expanded the christian influence and under his reign the Ethiopian literature started under his reign. The Ethiopian literature consisted mostly of religious works.

Monasteries have been a center of education and literature in Ethiopia. There is no need for a library building.

Conclusion

The monasteries should be able to train the three heroes:

Because Yekuno Amlak has been educated in a monastery and Zara Yagob has been jailed in one, a common practice. Amda Seyon I should be trained from a monastery, because he expanted the reach of the Ethiopian church.

The monasteries should not have a healing aura, instead the priests should have a larger healing aura/power and walk faster.

 

 

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2 minutes ago, balduin said:

I would go the other way. In my view, the monasteries should have no healing aura. The reason is that the monasteries where build in locations really hard to reach. Instead, I would give the priests a larger healing aura and power. In addition, I would let them walk faster.

 

 

My idea for the research  aura was to portray it's importance as a center of knowledge; it might be better to do so through a passive research bonus for building monasteries.

Maybe two tipes of priest Monk (Trained at monastery) and Debtera (Trained at church).

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@Ultimate Aurelian I like the idea of a faster gathering rate. However, I think it would be nice to use donkeys for that.

Ethiopia has the third largest population of donkeys in the world and the largest in Africa. It is not really surprising, considering the need to transport goods and material in a mountainous region. In absolute number Ethiopia has approximately 8 million donkeys.

Donkey_Depot,_Ethiopia_(11417064965).jpg

source: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Donkey_Depot,_Ethiopia_(11417064965).jpg

Omo_River_Valley_IMG_9548.jpg

source: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Omo_River_Valley_IMG_9548.jpg

Ethiopie-R%C3%A9gion_Afar-Caravane_de_se

source: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Ethiopie-Région_Afar-Caravane_de_sel_(13).jpg?uselang=fr

Mother_and_Infant_(3426296789).jpg

source: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Mother_and_Infant_(3426296789).jpg

The Mauyrians in 0 A.D. have worker elephants, where workers can bring there harvest or gathered materials too. In addition, the elephants can help construct buildings. Using the donkeys as a drop side does not work and they cannot help building. However, donkeys could increase the gathering speed of workers in their auras. Basically, the donkeys would have an aura, in which the gathering speed is increased. The donkeys can be trained at a stable and maybe the civic center.

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1 hour ago, balduin said:

@Ultimate Aurelian I like the idea of a faster gathering rate. However, I think it would be nice to use donkeys for that.

Ethiopia has the third largest population of donkeys in the world and the largest in Africa. It is not really surprising, considering the need to transport goods and material in a mountainous region. In absolute number Ethiopia has approximately 8 million donkeys.

Donkey_Depot,_Ethiopia_(11417064965).jpg

Ethiopian merchant should have Donkey for sure.

Malian can be either Horse or Camel (A lot of Mali's trade was done through the Sahara with nomads as middle men).

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1 hour ago, Ultimate Aurelian said:

Ethiopian merchant should have Donkey for sure

Or maybe camels. Camels are used in lower regions (below 1700m) and not in the highlands. There are 1 million camels in Ethiopia. During the middle ages, the empire of Mali and Ethiopia were connected:

Niger_saharan_medieval_trade_routes.PNG

source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Niger_saharan_medieval_trade_routes.PNG

Quote

"Ethiopian trade in the Middle Ages was based largely on two institutions: local markets and long distance merchants caravans."

...

"Merchants, who for security often travelled together in large caravans made their way across the length and breadth of the country. Those seeking ivory, gold, civet musk, and slaves would journey to the rich lands of Ethiopia’s south-west. If engaged in the import-export trade they would, however, make their way to the Red Sea port of Massawa, the Gulf of Aden ports of Tajurah, Zeila and Berbera, or to the Sudan frontier in the far west. Imports in this period, as earlier, consisted largely of cotton and manufactured goods."

Source: https://zethio.blogspot.com/2014/03/trade-in-ethiopia-in-ancient-times.html

The reason why Ethiopia has Zebu cows is the trade with India:

https://zethio.blogspot.com/2014/03/ethiopian-indian-relations-in-ancient.html

even today salt is exported from Ethiopia:

A-camel-caravan-carrying--025.jpg?width=

For-centuries-merchants-h-026.jpg?width=

Source: https://www.theguardian.com/artanddesign/gallery/2013/may/27/ethiopia-s-ancient-salt-trail-in-pictures

The area is called Danakil Depression and contains some salt lakes:

Edited by balduin
grammer
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slinging from a horse would be horrifically difficult, a lot of the power in a throw comes from your legs, also the liability to your horse's head. Slinging accurately is already difficult, we probably dont see cavalry slingers because how wholly impractical that would be

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18 hours ago, Ultimate Aurelian said:

Can't find many sources for mounted slingers in general, only some Roman descriptions of Germanics (Not clear if they dismounted before firing).

That's plausible they dismounted, Caesar doesn't specify it at this moment (De Bello Gallico, 1, 46) but at other moments he clearly highlighted their ability to dismount and re-mount easily (especially for stabby stabby poor horsies).

 

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Ok, cavalry slingers are out, then.

However, I do have a few other ideas, not for these factions in particular, but generally speaking:

Infantry axethrower

Cavalry axethrower

Infantry crossbowman (Middle Ages)

Cavalry crossbowman (Middle Ages)

Infantry dagger thrower

Cavalry dagger thrower

Infantry with two-handed weapon (sword, axe, hammer, etc.)

Infantry with dual weapons (two swords, two axes, etc.)

Flail infantry (Middle Ages)

Flail cavalry (Middle Ages)

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There is a basic principle in most warrior training do not give your weapon to the enemy which includes all thrown small weapons as you never have enough of them on a battlefield most thrown weapons are strictly for one on one or ambush situations.

Enjoy the Choice :)     

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7 minutes ago, Loki1950 said:

There is a basic principle in most warrior training do not give your weapon to the enemy which includes all thrown small weapons as you never have enough of them on a battlefield most thrown weapons are strictly for one on one or ambush situations.

Enjoy the Choice :)     

Wouldn't that include arrows from archers? Edit: and javelins

Edited by m7600
And javelins
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1 hour ago, Genava55 said:

That's plausible they dismounted, Caesar doesn't specify it at this moment (De Bello Gallico, 1, 46) but at other moments he clearly highlighted their ability to dismount and re-mount easily (especially for stabby stabby poor horsies).

 

And in the case of Hadrian's account he may be saying they mounted afterwards.

Quote

''you have shot stones from slings and fought with javelins and everywhere mounted quickly. ''

 

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I studied Latin for half a year, it was quite interesting. I still remember the phrase that I chose for the final exam, I had to translate it and explain it: "Reges per regnum, statuasque, sepulcraque, quaerunt." They didn't give us a list of phrases to choose from or anything like that, we had to actually find a phrase ourselves. The course was oriented towards Ancient poetry, so we had to explain not only the literal meaning of the phrase, but also how it worked poetically, like what kind of rhetorical figures are being used (metaphors, metonyms, etc.)


Here's a work in progress for the market, as well as an update for the storehouse and the farmstead.

ethio_market.png

ethio_storehouse_02.png

ethio_farmstead_03.png

Edited by m7600
Images
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2 hours ago, m7600 said:

Wouldn't that include arrows from archers? Edit: and javelins

No it comes down to engagement distance arrows and javelins a designed for mass use not sniper fire which only came with the heavy crossbow and thrown axes and daggers are not going to stop an advancing skirmish line.

Enjoy the Choice :) 

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1 hour ago, Loki1950 said:

No it comes down to engagement distance arrows and javelins a designed for mass use not sniper fire which only came with the heavy crossbow and thrown axes and daggers are not going to stop an advancing skirmish line.

Enjoy the Choice :) 

C'est un débat intéressant. Je vois que vous avez concédé le point sur les arbalètes. C'est assez bon pour moi. (vous êtes du Canada français, non?).

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Ok, so here is what we have so far

ethio_screeshot_02.thumb.png.4eb445d625293664c5f08d0f255d01be.png


Honestly, the style of the buildings does not look as unified as I would like. The building that looks the most different is the defense tower, especially the roof. It looks like it belongs to a different civ. I could go back to the Gondarine style for the defense tower.

Now, just to be sure, there is a quote on Wikipedia (take it with a grain of salt, of course) about vernacular architecture during the Middle Ages: "Ethiopian architecture continued to expand from the Aksumite style, but also incorporating new traditions with the expansion of the Ethiopian state. Styles incorporated more wood and rounder structures in commoner's architecture in the center of the country and the south, and these stylistic influencies were manifested in the slow construction of churches and monasteries. Throughout the medieval period, Aksumite architecture and influences and its monolithic tradition persisted, with its influence strongest in the early medieval (Late Aksumite) and Zagwe periods (when the churches of Lalibela were carved)."

Two things, based on that quote. First, vernacular architecture tended to be more round and with more use of wood. So I'm not entirely off with what I did for the storehouse, farmstead, dock, etc. Second (and this I haven't incorporated), there was a continuation of Aksumite architecture; it was not completely replaced. This is why I wanted to have some Aksumite-style buildings for this civ. Currently there are none (the Monastry will probably be in Aksumite style).

@balduin, let us discuss the issue of the timeline again, so that we can completely iron it out. There is a larger problem here, and it is the fact that the histories of non-European regions of the globe do not have a one-to-one correlation with European history. For example, the civilizations of the Americas (aztecs, mayans, incas, etc.) did not have a Middle Ages. But a similar situation occurs in Africa. While Africa did have a Middle Ages, it's timeline is not identical to Europe's. A good example of this is the Aksumites. When did the transition from the Ancient period to the Middle Ages occur in Europe? With the fall of Rome. This event was not as meaningful for Africa as it was for Europe. For example, the Aksumite civilization was not interrupted by it. One could argue that the Aksumites have their own timeline, since, by European standards, it would have to be classified as belonging to both the Ancient and Early Middle Ages.

Having that in mind, let's ask a similar question: what event marked the transition from the Late Middle Ages to the Early Modern Period in Africa, particularly in Ethiopia? In Europe, it was a combination of factors: the Renaissance, the Protestant Reform, the rise of a powerful merchant class, etc. These events did have an indirect impact on Ethiopia, but it was not so drastic as it was in England, for example. So, just as one could say that the Aksumites belong at the same time to the Ancient and Medieval periods, one could also say that Gondarine architecture is, at the same time, Late Medieval and Early Modern. Just because it dates from the 17th century, this does not mean that it has no medieval elements whatsoever.

In understand that the timeline for the second part of Millennium AD is 1000-1500. This timeline, which makes sense for Europe, makes less sense for mayans, aztecs and incas, and it does not make a lot of sense for African civilizations either. Again, to insist on a previous point: the timeline of the Aksumites is c. 100 - 900 c. So how would you even classify such a civilization using European standards? Is it Ancient? Is it Medieval? I say it's both. And I say a similar thing about Gondarine architecture: is it Medieval? Is it Early Modern? It seems to be both, despite the fact that it dates from the first half of the 1600's.

So what I would suggest for Millenium AD is that the European timeline that it uses should not be forcefully applied to the histories of non-European regions of the globe, as if these had a one-to-one correspondence with European history.

Edit: On a different note, I've been looking into Phillipson's theory about some of the rock churches being originally fortresses. I've been checking Google Scholar and reading some stuff by him as well as what his colleagues think of his work, and he seems to be a serious researcher. Here is a short popular article written by David Keys about Phillipson's research, it's from 2004:

"Investigations in Lalibela, Ethiopia, are revealing that Africa's most important historical Christian site is much older than previously thought. Up until now, scholars have regarded the spectacular complex of 11 rock-cut churches as dating from around A.D. 1200, but new survey work carried out by a British archaeologist suggests that three of the churches may have originally been "built" half a millennium earlier as fortifications or other structures in the waning days of the Axumite Empire.

"The discovery will completely change the way historians perceive the origins of Africa's most famous indigenous Christian site," says David Phillipson, professor of African archaeology at Cambridge University. His research, to be fully published next year, suggests that two of the churches, those of Merkurios (a local Ethiopian saint) and the archangel Gabriel, were initially carved out of the rock as some sort of elite palace or fortress complex. A third structure created in that same early period later became the church of Danagel (the Virgin Martyrs). The Merkurios and Gabriel structures were built in highly defensible positions and may well have been the core of a fortified complex created during the politically unstable period that saw the disintegration of the Axumite Empire in the mid-seventh century A.D. At its peak in the third to sixth centuries A.D., that empire controlled much of northern Ethiopia and Eritrea, and at times Yemen and even part of the Nile Valley.

Phillipson bases his new chronology of Lalibela on the monuments' architectural styles, their complex structural interrelationships, and comparisons with other monuments in Ethiopia. He believes that at least four of the site's 11 churches were constructed specifically as places of worship in the tenth or eleventh century, with a further three or four built by the mid-thirteenth century. According to Phillipson, it now seems that that late period was simply the time when the complex attained its greatest religious importance, and not when it was begun.

This new research also demonstrates a substantial continuity between the Axumite civilization, which adopted Christianity in the fourth century, and that of medieval Ethiopia. In fact, a number of architectural features found in Axumite churches were employed in the design of Lalibela's tenth- and eleventh-century rock-cut churches."

I'm no expert, but everything seems to indicate that Phillipson's theory should be taken seriously. Here is an image of Beta Gabriel-Rufael. The shape of the building does not look like a church. It looks like part of a fortified complex. So, if I end up removing all of the Gondarine buildings, despite what I said before, then the style of Beta Gabriel-Rufael could work well for the Ethiopian fortress. It would also be similar to the defense tower, thus solving the problem that I mentioned at the start of this post.

Biete_Gabriel-Rufael.thumb.jpg.61e35643e9417ac40a2becf50b203ec6.jpg

 

Edited by m7600
Phillipson's theory, and I had uploaded the wrong image of Beta Gabriel-Rufael
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1 hour ago, m7600 said:

. So, if I end up removing all of the Gondarine buildings, despite what I said before, then the style of Beta Gabriel-Rufael could work well for the Ethiopian fortress.

Maybe you could keep the Gondarine fortress, but i think the barracks would look better with a vernacular style similar to the civ center (Since its a cheap essential building avaliable early in the game).

If you think the europe based 1000-1500 timeline is not appropriate for the civ, maybe you could pick a specific epoch in Ethiopian History (Zagwe ? Early solomonic period ?).

Edited by Ultimate Aurelian
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Here is the work in progress for the Ethiopian Wonder, the Church of our Lady Mary of Zion. Next to it are some other buildings for size comparison.
 

1 hour ago, Ultimate Aurelian said:

If you think the europe based 1000-1500 timeline is not appropriate for the civ, maybe you could pick a specific epoch in Ethiopian History (Zagwe ? Early solomonic period ?).

Zagwe dynasty won't work, but early Solomonic might.

 

ethio_wonder_wip.png

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3 hours ago, m7600 said:

Here is the work in progress for the Ethiopian Wonder, the Church of our Lady Mary of Zion. Next to it are some other buildings for size comparison.
 

Zagwe dynasty won't work, but early Solomonic might.

 

ethio_wonder_wip.png

Not sure about stained glass, i don't think it was used in Ethiopian churches at the time.

  In modern photos the church has wooden windows:

  scaled-900x601-AN0510_Alte_Marienkathedr

Edited by Ultimate Aurelian
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@m7600 I do not have to iron out anything with the timeline. The timeline of 0 A.D. is game choice. You pick a certain time frame and you stick with it. However, from a historical perspective you should try to depict at least the time frame you choose as accurately as possible. In this case you picked a time frame from 1000 to 1500, those are 500 years to choose from while developing a civilization for the game. It becomes an issue the moment you expand one kingdoms by another 200 years, but keep other kingdoms at the time frame between 1000 to 1500. You can easily get create an uber kingdom, which does not fit into the timeline, but it becomes the kingdom everybody picks because it is so powerful.

Furthermore, the closer you get to our time, the more we know about it. The time frame from 1000 to 1500 is 500-1000 years away from us, but 1700 is only 300 years away. Meaning we have more historical evidence from that time. You do not need to rely on archeology only, you can use historical sources.

The opposite effect can be observed once you go back a couple of thousand years. Wikipedia says the Neolithic (late stone age) is from 10 000 - 4 500 BC. That is a huge time frame. The problem is, we do not have many objects left from that time and can only rely on archeological evidence. There is no written history from that time.

However, there is another problem. We have from some civilizations a large amount of historical and archeological evidence. From others in the same time frame we have almost nothing. Reasons can be lack of written documents, building materials etc. For example, we have many written documents and buildings from Europe, Middle East, India, China, Japan etc. from the middle ages but not much from the African continent in the same time frame. With the Ethiopian Kingdom, the problem is the lack of research. Ethiopia has many manuscripts and buildings from the middle ages. For example, Ethiopia submitted a document in 2018 to UNESCO asking to get 121 rock-hewn churches from the 5th to 14th century recognized as World Heritage and this year (2020) they submitted a document asking to include buildings from the Aksumit and middle age period. I hope they will do more research in the future.

It is a challenge to try to make the Ethiopian empire part of a mod with a timeline between 1000 to 1500. In general, it is a huge challenge to make an African kingdom mod. I probably would not have dared to do it. However, you started and it would be nice to finish it by sticking - whenever possible - to the historic and archaeologic evidence from that time frame. It is not always possible, but one can try. Sometimes, you have to be creative and imagine how a building in that time could have looked like during that time frame. I think the result of the effort it takes to make an African kingdom mod depicting the kingdoms as accurately as possible, will be rewarding.

On a side note, regarding the development. People from the community take and will take notice and try to help you. You only have to keep up the good work. Community members will pitch in and help you. This is how Free/Libre and Open Source Software development works. Maybe, you even inspire some to make their own mod.

Edited by balduin
Clarification
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7 hours ago, m7600 said:

the style of Beta Gabriel-Rufael could work well for the Ethiopian fortress. It would also be similar to the defense tower, thus solving the problem that I mentioned at the start of this post.

From a game play perspective you can add a fortress in that style. However, my main question is: does the Ethiopian kingdom need a fortress? Maybe, they have barracks and stables and can train champions from those buildings. Heroes could be trained from the monastery.

You could give the Ethiopians civic center a larger territory influence, the heroes will have a capture bonus in their aura and you could offer ladder bearer to climb walls. This would make the Ethiopians a more agile civilization.

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