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Civ: Germans (Suebians and Goths)


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On 6/3/2019 at 3:34 PM, Genava55 said:

Regional and allied units could be the Cherusci pikeman, the Harii Night-Ambusher, the Lugian heavy swordsman, the short-swordsmen with round shield from Lemovii and Rugii tribes, the Batavi or the Tencteri cavalry, Chatti veteran infantryman (with shaved faces), Aestii axe female warrior etc. etc.

 

These would be great mercenaries for the Suebians. Can you supply references (images and text) for each, especially the last one? I can then start to create and add them.

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The page is in spanish

https://es.qwerty.wiki/wiki/Harii

Regarding the Harii, Tacitus writes in Germania:

As for the Harii, quite apart from their strength, which exceeds that of the other tribes I have just listed, they pander to their innate savagery by skill and timing: with black shields and painted bodies, they choose dark nights to fight, and by means of terror and shadow of a ghostly army they cause panic, since no enemy can bear a sight so unexpected and hellish; in every battle the eyes are the first to be conquered

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2 hours ago, Obskiuras said:

New concept art: germanic shields based in the rank

646102162_Escner_20190812.thumb.png.3fcc6e7dac1f04366fa7afb23247ce14.png

67953911_2397072600381062_33203186954603

Anyone willing to make these? @Alexandermb @wackyserious? These are excellent concepts. Great work @Obskiuras. There is already a hex shield model in the game for the Celtic civs, but maybe y'all'd want a new one? 

Edited by wowgetoffyourcellphone
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18 hours ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

These would be great mercenaries for the Suebians. Can you supply references (images and text) for each, especially the last one? I can then start to create and add them.

The Cherusci Pikeman description comes from Tacitus, at my knowledge, there is no archeological records:

Spoiler

“It is not, he said, plains only which are good for the fighting of Roman soldiers, but woods and forest passes, if science be used. For the huge shields (immensa scuta) and unwieldly spears (enormes hastas) of the barbarians cannot, amid trunks of trees and brushwood that springs from the ground, be so well managed as our javelins (pila) and swords and close-fitting armour. Shower your blows thickly; strike at the face with your swords’ points. The German has neither cuirass nor helmet; even his shield is not strengthened with leather or steel, but is of osiers woven together or of thin and painted board. If their first line is armed with spears (hastatam), the rest have only weapons (teli) hardened by fire or very short”

“The Germans were equally brave, but they were beaten by the nature of the fighting and of the weapons, for their vast host in so confined a space could neither thrust out nor recover their immense spears (praelongas hastas), or avail themselves of their nimble movements and lithe frames, forced as they were to a close engagement. Our soldiers, on the other hand, with their shields pressed to their breasts, and their hands grasping their sword-hilts, struck at the huge limbs and exposed faces of the barbarians, cutting a passage through the slaughtered enemy”

“Everything alike was unfavourable to the Romans, the place with its deep swamps, insecure to the foot and slippery as one advanced, limbs burdened with armour, and the impossibility of aiming their javelins (pila) amid the water. The Cherusci, on the other hand, were familiar with fighting in fens; they had huge frames, and spears long (hastae ingentes) enough to inflict wounds even at a distance”

“... and then the battle was commenced by a discharge of stones, leaden balls, and other missiles, our soldiers not entering the morass, while the Germans sought to provoke, and so draw them on. When their store of missiles was spent, and the battle grew hotter, a fiercer onslaught was made by the enemy. Their tall stature and very long spears (praelongis hastis) enabled them, without closing, to wound our men, who were wavering and unsteady”

Source: gladius.revistas.csic.es/index.php/gladius/article/download/287/290

The Harii Night-Ambusher is described again by Tacitus, as a part of the supra-group the Lugians/Lygians:

Spoiler

 "Of these, the Lygian is the most extensive, and diffuses its name through several communities. It will be sufficient to name the most powerful of them — the Arii, Helvecones, Manimi, Elysii, and Naharvali. In the country of the latter is a grove, consecrated to religious rites of great antiquity. A priest presides over them, dressed in woman’s apparel; but the gods worshiped there are said, according to the Roman interpretation, to be Castor and Pollux. Their attributes are the same; their name, Alcis. No images, indeed, or vestiges of foreign superstition, appear in their worship; but they are revered under the character of young men and brothers.  The Arii, fierce beyond the superiority of strength they possess over the other just-enumerated people, improve their natural ferocity of aspect by artificial helps. Their shields are black; their bodies painted: they choose the darkest nights for an attack; and strike terror by the funereal gloom of their sable bands — no enemy being able to sustain their singular, and, as it were, infernal appearance; since in every combat the eyes are the first part subdued. Beyond the Lygii are the Gothones, who live under a monarchy, somewhat more strict than that of the other German nations, yet not to a degree incompatible with liberty. Adjoining to these are the Rugii and Lemovii, situated on the sea-coast: — all these tribes are distinguished by round shields, short swords, and submission to regal authority."

The Lugians are associated to the Przeworsk culture with numerous offensive weapons found in burial:

Spoiler

image.thumb.png.12bd844bcc65a9285afce7cd723ba642.pngimage.thumb.png.f2245301b912732e17af5363afb78b5e.png

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image.png.2b537f2e7a7274750e04d9cc28cf2bac.pngimage.png.35b68b997b0110ac29d0be5e1da7ca89.png

image.thumb.png.ffbff5c89382206146a090a198a277bc.png

image.thumb.png.8ba831954de43dc4988f50a6f9a9dbe7.png

 

image.png.8a69d331767b33af0f9fc66fbba05621.pngimage.thumb.png.a652cd6db95e7669027a757bd59ed52b.pngimage.thumb.png.2393ee6262ab1c47804de41529bb23ce.pngimage.png.21398e8d0c2cf85f4cf6c68aad4fb32e.pngimage.png.2787cfede1b3cff7b94fc62d12a3d45e.pngimage.png.42ee61277f70ce4c54f04552fadb7873.pngimage.png.c57679e93e86a7cdd6972140a036421e.pngimage.png.4db04cf11edce619e8142e31a0fa31ed.pngimage.png.cdaafdf553c1447c4fc32332ff8c5fa5.pngimage.png.4a351ec43d2f5199169e43dac2de57c8.pngimage.png.e8d3fe821425de8fdb112ff9d1c12194.png

Both the Preworsk culture and the Balt Iron Age culture displayed burial of females with weapons. Here Przeworsk Female burials with weapons:

Spoiler

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Aestii female warrior (East-Baltic):

Spoiler

image.thumb.png.1b55478f02d6994307be33b753d48feb.pngimage.png.234330e9d31a7dec36181efa533d9eec.pngimage.png.80ba301b3df6678f278c7bbc1ec96fe1.pngimage.thumb.png.785d07e94110f592d8a3741ba37de568.png

 

 

 

West-Baltic+Pomerania and East-Baltic tribes description from Tacitus:

Spoiler

Adjoining to these are the Rugii and Lemovii, situated on the sea-coast: — all these tribes are distinguished by round shields, short swords, and submission to regal authority. Next occur the communities of the Suiones [Sweden], seated in the very Ocean, who, besides their strength in men and arms, also possess a naval force. The form of their vessels differs from ours in having a prow at each end, so that they are always ready to advance. They make no use of sails, nor have regular benches of oars at the sides: they row, as is practiced in some rivers, without order, sometimes on one side, sometimes on the other, as occasion requires. These people honor wealth; for which reason they are subject to monarchical government, without any limitations, or precarious conditions of allegiance. Nor are arms allowed to be kept promiscuously, as among the other German nations: but are committed to the charge of a keeper, and he, too, a slave. The pretext is, that the Ocean defends them from any sudden incursions; and men unemployed, with arms in their hands, readily become licentious. In fact, it is for the king’s interest not to intrust a noble, a freeman, or even an emancipated slave, with the custody of arms. Beyond the Suiones is another sea, sluggish and almost stagnant, by which the whole globe is imagined to be girt and inclosed, from this circumstance, that the last light of the setting sun continues so vivid till its rising, as to obscure the stars. Popular belief adds, that the sound of his emerging from the ocean is also heard; and the forms of deities, with the rays beaming from his head, are beheld. Only thus far, report says truly, does nature extend. On the right shore of the Suevic sea dwell the tribes of the Æstii, whose dress and customs are the same with those of the Suevi, but their language more resembles the British. They worship the mother of the gods; and as the symbol of their superstition, they carry about them the figures of wild boars. This serves  them in place of armor and every other defense: it renders the votary of the goddess safe even in the midst of foes. Their weapons are chiefly clubs, iron being little used among them [a bit exaggerated however in regards of archaeological evidences].

West-Baltic swords:

Spoiler

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Germanic clubman:

Spoiler

image.thumb.png.543e13f48db0f42252e9dcdeefa5d031.png

 

Edited by Genava55
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20 hours ago, Lion.Kanzen said:

I'm not sure about that Phrygian kind helmet.

Several Roman weapons have been found in Germanic territories, maybe the artist is drawing one of them or he is getting is inspiration from auxiliary weapons.

Even gladii have been found in the Elbe region:

image.png.e78f257adf9108fb65fc27d4498d8af9.png

17 hours ago, Obskiuras said:

New concept art: germanic shields based in the rank

There are some wooden helmets found in Denmark:

image.png.6fa6c7e73aa6519625706ee5c4e651d2.pngimage.png.cf009485d1966af93647dae84a50538e.png

 

And a Germanic helmet, badly recorded but dated to the 1st century AD:

image.thumb.jpeg.8d61b73a666d831d9364e3a0fe8e4ba8.jpeg

image.thumb.jpeg.5a2b6f427c0a18b7d80790fd25064a02.jpeg

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Just now, Lion.Kanzen said:

 question? the germans dont have any Nordic influence helmets?

Never found. Neither during the Germanic Iron Age or after. Moreover the Nordic Bronze Age helmets are different from those depicted in medieval era. This is probably the same situation than any country in Europe, Bronze Age fashion is not surviving to the Iron Age.

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2 minutes ago, Genava55 said:

Never found. Neither during the Germanic Iron Age or after. Moreover the Nordic Bronze Age helmets are different from those depicted in medieval era. This is probably the same situation than any country in Europe, Bronze Age fashion is not surviving to the Iron Age.

yes I checked that.

Spoiler

Resultado de imagen para bronze nordic helmets

 

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