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===[COMMITTED]=== Gaul Theatron


Stan`
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16 minutes ago, stanislas69 said:

To be honest it's because I don't play the game enough to have a say in balancing.

I think mostly the historians in conjunction with the artists should be deciding civ specific building rosters. Same for units... It's up to the balance guys make it work. Of course if something breaks the game, it's a no no, but having accurate and relevant structures and units is not something that should ever be able to break the game... We should be able to make the most of what made a civilization or a culture unique. Otherwise the factions are going to feel like generic re-skins of each other.

The theatron looks really great by the way! 

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33 minutes ago, stanislas69 said:

No such guys right now :/ Nobody in the team is actively working on balancing, but you guys know that right ?

Nope, I did not. I know virtually nothing about how the team operates or makes decisions... I see Borg is doing a lot of work with his balance mod, which has so far received a ton of positive feedback, so I assumed the team was looking at that, and deciding which parts to add to vanilla...    

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6 hours ago, Sundiata said:

Nope, I did not. I know virtually nothing about how the team operates or makes decisions... I see Borg is doing a lot of work with his balance mod, which has so far received a ton of positive feedback, so I assumed the team was looking at that, and deciding which parts to add to vanilla...    

That's the idea. But until all that is reviewed and figured out I don't expect much...

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51 minutes ago, stanislas69 said:

Specific name for the theatron ?

I suggested Remogantion (but can be Remocantion as well). Gantion or Cantion is a name for the assembly, we find it in Trigance (from Trigantia / Tricantia, three assemblies) or in Kent (from Cantium). In Old Irish it is Céite. Remos is a word meaning "prince" or "first one", it is similar to the latin Princeps which comes from Primus.

Edit: if you want something simpler for the Atlas, you can call it Cantion or Gantion, simply meaning the assembly.

Edited by Genava55
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1 hour ago, borg- said:

I am looking forward to using it in my mod, especially if we can train carnyx unit, it would be incredible.

Cool, it is nice to see motivation to include this building B) Stan did a very good job on this and it would be a shame to limit it only to Atlas.

By the way, in your mod, which faction causes you the much trouble to balance? Mauryans?

 

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1 minute ago, stanislas69 said:

Does theater works as a generic name or does it have to be assembly of princes which seem more related to the event than to the building

I'd personally prefer "assembly", or "assembly of princes". The term "theater" might be confusing to players, as they might thinks it's like a Greek theatre...  

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1 hour ago, Alexandermb said:

@borg- what would be the function of the unit and what you have in mind for its animations. Like a standard bearer? Or a battle/aura unit holding the carnyx in one hand figthing with the other  And using the carnyx while capturing buildings or promoting

I think it should be functionally just like the Einherjar unit in Age of Mythology. It blows its horn and all friendly units within X range gain a bonus attack in their next strike. This horn blast ability has to recharge between uses.

 

http://aom.heavengames.com/gameinfo/units/norse/einherjar.htm

 

It could be a boost for friendly units or a penalty for enemy units (fear).

Edited by wowgetoffyourcellphone
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1 hour ago, Alexandermb said:

@borg- what would be the function of the unit and what you have in mind for its animations. Like a standard bearer? Or a battle/aura unit holding the carnyx in one hand figthing with the other  And using the carnyx while capturing buildings or promoting

I thought of some aura of capture rate, or something that affected enemy units.

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1 hour ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

It blows its horn and all friendly units within X range gain a bonus attack in their next strike. This horn blast ability has to recharge between uses.

If anyone is interested, this could be possible by using https://github.com/smiley3/0ad_abilities mod. Could cast a temporary aura with that. It’s absolutely terrible code though. I do recall it having a GUI error last time I tried. Not sure what is broken and what is not, last I worked on it was back in December.

edit: just realised the repo is private, would be public later today. If anyone wants that and I forgot to do so, pm or something.

Edited by Guest
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  • 2 weeks later...
4 hours ago, borg- said:

I want put something on "history" of assembly of princes, but i do not think anything about it, anyone have some idea?

Caesar's text is the only source with multiple occurrences:

"that with these the Aedui and their dependents had repeatedly struggled in arms - that they had been routed, and had sustained a great calamity - had lost all their nobility, all their senate, all their cavalry. [...]

Caesar, having encouraged the Remi, and addressed them courteously, ordered the whole senate to assemble before him, and the children of their chief men to be brought to him as hostages; [...]

When they could not obtain this, they begged him to send on a dispatch to those who had marched in advance of the main army, and forbid them to engage; and grant them permission to send embassadors to the Ubii, and if the princes and senate of the latter would give them security by oath, they assured Caesar that they would accept such conditions as might be proposed by him; and requested that he would give them the space of three days for negociating these affairs. [...]

But Caesar, having summoned to him the principal persons of each state, in one case by alarming them, since he declared that he knew what was going on, and in another case by encouraging them, retained a great part of Gaul in its allegiance. The Senones, however, which is a state eminently powerful and one of great influence among the Gauls, attempting by general design to slay Cavarinus, whom Caesar had created king among them (whose brother, Moritasgus, had held the sovereignty at the period of the arrival of Caesar in Gaul, and whose ancestors had also previously held it), when he discovered their plot and fled, pursued him even to the frontiers [of the state], and drove him from his kingdom and his home; and, after having sent embassadors to Caesar for the purpose of concluding a peace, when he ordered all their senate to come to him, did not obey that command. [...]

His brother Valetiacus had borne the same office during the last year: that the whole state was up in arms; the senate divided, the people divided; that each of them had his own adherents; and that, if the animosity would be fomented any longer, the result would be that one part of the state would come to a collision with the other; that it rested with his activity and influence to prevent it. [...]

Although Caesar considered it ruinous to leave the war and the enemy, yet, being well aware what great evils generally arise from internal dissensions, lest a state so powerful and so closely connected with the Roman people, which he himself had always fostered and honored in every respect, should have recourse to violence and arms, and that the party which had less confidence in its own power should summon aid from Vercingetorix, he determined to anticipate this movement; and because, by the laws of the Aedui, it was not permitted those who held the supreme authority to leave the country, he determined to go in person to the Aedui, lest he should appear to infringe upon their government and laws, and summoned all the senate, and those between whom the dispute was, to meet him at Decetia. When almost all the state had assembled there, and he was informed that one brother had been declared magistrate by the other, when only a few persons were privately summoned for the purpose, at a different time and place from what he ought, whereas the laws not only forbade two belonging to one family to be elected magistrates while each was alive, but even deterred them from being in the senate, he compelled Cotus to resign his office; he ordered Convictolitanis, who had been elected by the priests, according to the usage of the state, in the presence of the magistrates, to hold the supreme authority. [...]

Caesar reminded the embassadors who made these supplications, that the Bellovaci had at the same season the year before, in conjunction with other states of Gaul, undertaken a war, and that they had persevered the most obstinately of all in their purpose, and were not brought to a proper way of thinking by the submission of the rest: that he knew and was aware that the guilt of a crime was easily transferred to the dead; but that no one person could have such influence, as to be able by the feeble support of the multitude to raise a war and carry it on without the consent of the nobles, in opposition to the senate, and in despite of every virtuous man; however he was satisfied with the punishment, which they had drawn upon themselves. [...] "

There are also mention of general assemblies:

"When the war with the Helvetii was concluded, embassadors from almost all parts of Gaul, the chiefs of states, assembled to congratulate Caesar, [saying] that they were well aware, that, although he had taken vengeance on the Helvetii in war, for the old wrong done by them to the Roman people, yet that circumstance had happened no less to the benefit of the land of Gaul than of the Roman people, because the Helvetii, while their affairs were most flourishing, had quitted their country with the design of making war upon the whole of Gaul, and seizing the government of it, and selecting, out of a great abundance, that spot for an abode, which they should judge to be the most convenient and most productive of all Gaul, and hold the rest of the states as tributaries. They requested that they might be allowed to proclaim an assembly of the whole of Gaul for a particular day, and to do that with Caesar's permission, [stating] that they had some things which, with the general consent, they wished to ask of him. This request having been granted, they appointed a day for the assembly, and ordained by an oath with each other, that no one should disclose [their deliberations] except those to whom this [office] should be assigned by the general assembly.[...]

There was together with the others, Dumnorix, the Aeduan, of whom we have made previous mention. Him, in particular, he had resolved to have with him, because he had discovered him to be fond of change, fond of power, possessing great resolution, and great influence among the Gauls. To this was added, that Dumnorix had before said in an assembly of Aeduans, that the sovereignty of the state had been made over to him by Caesar; which speech the Aedui bore with impatience and yet dared not send embassadors to Caesar for the purpose of either rejecting or deprecating [that appointment].[...]

The ships having been drawn up and a general assembly of the Gauls held at Samarobriva, because the corn that year had not prospered in Gaul by reason of the droughts, he was compelled to station his army in its winter-quarters differently from the former years, and to distribute the legions among several states[...]

When he perceived that they were coming to him voluntarily; that on the one side the Senones and the Carnutes were stimulated by their consciousness of guilt, on the other side the Nervii and the Aduatuci were preparing war against the Romans, and that forces of volunteers would not be wanting to him if he began to advance from his own territories, he proclaims an armed council (this according to the custom of the Gauls in the commencement of war) at which, by a common law, all the youth were wont to assemble in arms, whoever of them comes last is killed in the sight of the whole assembly after being racked with every torture. In that council he declares Cingetorix, the leader of the other faction, his own son-in-law (whom we have above mentioned, as having embraced the protection of Caesar, and never having deserted him) an enemy and confiscates his property. When these things were finished, he asserts in the council that he, invited by the Senones and the Carnutes, and several other states of Gaul, was about to march thither through the territories of the Remi, devastate their lands, and attack the camp of Labienus: before he does that, he informs them of what he desires to be done.[...]

But those who were blockaded at Alesia, the day being past, on which they had expected auxiliaries from their countrymen, and all their corn being consumed ignorant of what was going on among the Aedui, convened an assembly and deliberated on the exigency of their situation. After various opinions had been expressed among them, some of which proposed a surrender, others a sally, while their strength would support it, the speech of Critognatus ought not to be omitted for its singular and detestable cruelty. He sprung from the noblest family among the Arverni, and possessing great influence, says, "I shall pay no attention to the opinion of those who call a most disgraceful surrender by the name of a capitulation; nor do I think that they ought to be considered as citizens, or summoned to the council. My business is with those who approve of a sally: in whose advice the memory of our ancient prowess seems to dwell in the opinion of you all. To be unable to bear privation for a short time is disgraceful cowardice, not true valor. Those who voluntarily offer themselves to death are more easily found than those who would calmly endure distress. And I would approve of this opinion (for honor is a powerful motive with me), could I foresee no other loss, save that of life; but let us, in adopting our design, look back on all Gaul, which we have stirred up to our aid. What courage do you think would our relatives and friends have, if eighty thousand men were butchered in one spot, supposing that they should be forced to come to an action almost over our corpses? [...] 

http://classics.mit.edu/Caesar/gallic.mb.txt

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