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Packing and Unpacking Rams and Siege Towers


LordGood
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On 5/31/2018 at 9:05 PM, LordGood said:

Before the soft system it was all some units were good for, everything had a counter applied to it regardless of whether or not it was needed. 

At least with a hard counter system, every unit is good for something, if not fodder. But I think the topic is drifting. ;) 

 

 

Edited by wowgetoffyourcellphone
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On 6/1/2018 at 6:02 AM, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

Macemen" were rare in our timeframe.  But for units like the Mauryan Macedude, just give him an attack bonus vs. "Whatever" class and let his crush damage do its work on buildings. And your concern presupposes that slingers have to use crush attack. They don't have to. Everything is changeable

Yeah, I agree with you Macemen are really effective against building, but we may restrict their attack for buildings only by giving them a penalty against swordsman specially (because, heavy maces are always slower than furious swords). As, according to my knowledge they're one of most expensive units of Mauryan dynasty (besides chariots and war elephants). But, in later period, they are replaced by axemen (Indian single sided axe and three pointed Trishula). And I also want to mention that other Gothic tribes also use axemen which are equally effective against structures especially wooden ones.

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On 5/31/2018 at 12:51 PM, Nescio said:

Things that are possible right now:

On 5/31/2018 at 2:38 PM, Nescio said:

And I've just written a mod to show my suggestions: siege.zip Feel free to try it out yourself :)

Update: it's now available for download via the mod selection menu in game. This would not have been possible without @Itms.

 

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I made a mod (balancing-mod), where all siege weapons are not captureable cause it is very hard to micro them as well as attack and capture them. I reduced the armor and increased their loot to make it a more fluent and natural gameplay expierence.

You can try it out, it is easily and fast available in Settings; Mod Selection. 

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On 6/2/2018 at 11:17 PM, Sundiata said:

I believe there is consensus on this. 

Not really. I think we better should either make capturing more useful or just disable it for this unit/building.

For catapults and bolts for example, I'd lower their capture regen rate, so that they can be captured by around 8 units. gameplay-wise this means players need to protect their catapults better with normal units and that someone can't smash down an army with only catapults. That's seems like a more desirable gameplay for me.

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i disabled capturing and reduced packing time because in my formationg-fighting-mod ( https://0ad.mod.io/formation-fighting-mod), cause it causes too much micro overhead without gaining tactical depth.

My solution was to make them slower, lowering the armour and give a lot of loot for killing. For me that makes logical as well as game play wise sense.

And with the great mod.io extension everyone can now easy make a mod by themselves and distribute. So the players can decide what they like best.

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17 minutes ago, Nescio said:

Why would you want statistics? Get yourself a dictionary if you want to look up a definition :)

No, with all respect, I want see the reason of statement.

I want to see a properly research, very similar to a marketing research. sorry if I'm off topic. don't take this personally either.

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5 hours ago, Lion.Kanzen said:

No, with all respect, I want see the reason of statement.

I want to see a properly research, very similar to a marketing research. sorry if I'm off topic. don't take this personally either.

This ain't a democracy bro. If you make changes to gameplay it should be to improve the gameplay according to a clear vision of how it ought to be. If you don't have the guts to take such a risk then you can't be a gameplay designer. Trying to make a game by mob rule will always produce garbage. I've been there, and it's not pretty.

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The only change that I would make in relation to the rams, would be to reduce a little your shield against ranged units, you need lots of shots to be able to cause a small damage. Another alternative is a tech I proposed some time ago, "flaming arrows", where archers get significant damage against contructions and siege units.

We could also do a similar tech for defensive constructions, where they could also cause extra damage against siege units.

Edited by borg-
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I think the game will be pretty without very OP siege weapons. I like to see melee battle to be the most dominant combat. Range sieges are fine but not the OP rams or siege towers that just run by themselves. These siege weapons need operators and need to be guarded as what they are realistically being intended for. 

Structure refuge shouldn’t be a very safe haven for garrisoned units who even fire projectiles without being projectile countered. This way an operated ram can safely bulldoze itself just to open the entrance of a structure for easy unit capture. 

Capturing should be made easier (on garrisoned ones) once the small percentage of structure HP (1/3 % not bad at all) is attained using siege weapons. Some organic foot units like pikes and spearmen should only be allowed to exact damage on structures (to make them not just tank units). 

I like the idea of siege units being built on the frontlines (even just nearby the structure to be rammed for Rams) and range sieges should be fixed that can be disbanded resulting in percentage of resources being given back. If some civs have ability to wheel them up they should be very very slow, same as Rams. TBH again structures like CC and forts or towers that have no range units garrisoned should not be firing any projectiles. And again capturing should be made easy by more number of foot units/class.

Some people are worried about micro of these units but not worried about microing hundreds of easily spammed units, just don’t make a logical sense. For as long as they are guarded safely their their roles which shouldn’t be too much to prevent the player from depending on it to much. 

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Just now, aeonios said:

This ain't a democracy bro. If you make changes to gameplay it should be to improve the gameplay according to a clear vision of how it ought to be. If you don't have the guts to take such a risk then you can't be a gameplay designer. Trying to make a game by mob rule will always produce garbage. I've been there, and it's not pretty.

Still that's how the game has been working since Mythos left. I agree it's not always for the best, but the game isn't that bad ^^

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4 minutes ago, stanislas69 said:

Still that's how the game has been working since Mythos left. I agree it's not always for the best, but the game isn't that bad ^^

Eh maybe. After watching aok games on youtube I'm starting to think that 0ad's gameplay is crap though. Certainly some things are better, but overall I have to say that 0ad is definitely inferior.

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Just now, aeonios said:

Eh maybe. After watching aok games on youtube I'm starting to think that 0ad's gameplay is crap though. Certainly some things are better, but overall I have to say that 0ad is definitely inferior.

Is there anything you like in the game lol ? So far all you have looked at is crap :p

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5 minutes ago, aeonios said:

Eh maybe. After watching aok games on youtube I'm starting to think that 0ad's gameplay is crap though. Certainly some things are better, but overall I have to say that 0ad is definitely inferior.

Compare 0 a.d to aok is cowardice, you are comparing with one of the best games ever created.

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