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Hellenizing the Ptolemies


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1 hour ago, LordGood said:

might have a formula down

screenshot0123.png

Magic in that screenshot old boy!

If only we could somehow "tidy up" the roofs/grounds so it looks like the well-ordered Greek civilization that conquered all Asia and discovered heliocentrism and measured the circumference of the earth.

But of course that would require removing references to Aladdin and gypsy carpet-sellers.
I wondered about this from the beginning, why do Roman and Byzantine houses and markets and structures look so nice and tidy, when the Ptolemies and Seleucids look like they are run by the drunk wives of gypsies.

Adding columns and rows of columns would have a wonderful effect of making the Ptolemaic cityscape look orderly.

Edited by Anaxandridas ho Skandiates
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Perhaps I should separate the house actors, that yellow roof doesn't mix too nice with the Seleucid tile roof. A bit big for 5 pop houses too. Im thinking adding hellenized buildings, maybe just

here's with the desaturated kushite set

Posted Images

Also can you replace the free-standing tower with the one you created for the walls? Maybe just a bit bigger, and then attach Greek shields on the four sides, instead of the old fantasy-model. (see also cloth arrangement of free-standing ptolemaic tower in fresco above)


In general nothing is easier than putting a golden vase on top of two architrave-connected columns, on a platform.
Or placing a statue in the middle of a tetrapylon, like we see in the monuments in the fresco examples.
You basically have all the architectural elements in existing models already.

Most necessary addition is also the simplest: broken pediment. Just slam it on top of copied column arrangement and bases from other Greek models and BOOM.

@LordGood The round pediment above is good, just gild the roof tiles and make it uniform shiny (add gold texture to the roof)

Edited by Anaxandridas ho Skandiates
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16 minutes ago, Anaxandridas ho Skandiates said:

Also can you replace the free-standing tower with the one you created for the walls? Maybe just a bit bigger, and then attach Greek shields on the four sides, instead of the old fantasy-model. (see also cloth arrangement of free-standing ptolemaic tower in fresco above)

he just started and change some texturre... this isn't final state.

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21 hours ago, Lion.Kanzen said:

he just started and change some texturre... this isn't final state.

You can see how happy I am already that this thread is active. It is like a young dog that can see the goodie being dangled in front of him and can't help it :D

Anyway, here the last of the fresco depictions and unposted ptolemaic original sources for @LordGood - this is about as complete as it gets:

 

183256065_sFresco_Isis_Npoles_26s.thumb.jpg.ec32c4899456e79b79c833efdf30f87b.jpg

 

59654820_1472015719607093_6907141236918845440_n.thumb.jpg.203ea8b1f3a1d58009c684b3923f543b.jpg

 


1990709660_sFresco_Isis_Npoles_13s.thumb.jpg.d140bbb1fb904b71075e4b4bf32a88ac.jpg



1594108566_sFresco_Isis_Npoles_24s.thumb.jpg.eb6394b0356eefccb495487be536d743.jpg

 

1024988186_sFresco_Isis_Npoles_19s.thumb.jpg.68165c1db64be831cc5e5b0a69ec9978.jpg

 

MG_1302.jpg.9c0d3a8ed25751abda09e248dcbc3460.jpg

 

468028652_sFresco_Isis_Npoles_25s.thumb.jpg.74904be563843285932bd147f60cbcc5.jpg

 

sNaples_Museum_94_(15392129221)s.thumb.jpg.31e508da9bd1cd7017c90c8be52596d8.jpg

 

 

sgettyimages-122221257-2048x2048.thumb.jpg.a1e5a645309bc3f4a4d69d25ea9afe01.jpg

 

sgettyimages-89163443-2048x2048.thumb.jpg.cd132c64063573561f0a3d9361b11369.jpg

 

Affreschi_romani_-_pompei_-_nozze_zefiro_e_clori.thumb.JPG.d051355fe5a7ea9d0096eb0744681a15.JPG

 

sNaples_Museum_110_(15394989512)s.thumb.jpg.5ccdea3c0acf62e24408799464722f2c.jpg

 

ceremony_herculaneum_original.jpg.712ea864057a7f94c5b55652a910bf86.jpg

PS. Notice how there sort of has to be an altar in front of temples. Otherwise they are not temples. And the more colonnades and sphinxes on pedestal bases, the better.

Edited by Anaxandridas ho Skandiates
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6 minutes ago, Anaxandridas ho Skandiates said:

You can see how happy I am already that this thread is active. It is like a young dog that can see the goodie being dangled in front of him and can't help it :D 

yes the anxiety is overwhelming here but focus in other themes related with your skills or more deep references. is the only way.

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We have a standard for Greek and I here post render of current version of WIP for the Pharos, theatre model can be seen in background

 

pharos8.thumb.jpg.6da453bd014d62546317b97987a077dc.jpg

pharos3.thumb.jpg.8192a2020ad161c525bf5a2c431e867d.jpg

 

As with any model, it is a tradeoff between realism and polygon-overcount-hell. The portals on levels 0 and 1 need to be "hellenized" but I will wait until we have a final model.

Also the top statue of Zeus needs to be remodelled (as quite low-poly) to fit this figurine/statuette actually found in the waters in front of the pharos, consistent with coin depictions (I have all of them and can post all pharos sources in a new thread dealing only with this Pharos 3d model, if there be interest in a common discussion?):

Frabnk_with_satue.thumb.jpg.f65e3f7f5cc4b81d23553ddbee6036cc.jpg

statue2.thumb.jpg.d072661b54b2b6ac45a2ed4c4f68a5f6.jpg

And the tritons and Egyptian statues would need to be made low-poly as well, and I need to adjust window holes and top tempietto, and finally add ramp and add golden inscription:

ΣΩΣΤΡΑΤΟΣ ΔΕΞΙΦΑΝΟΥΣ ΚΝΙΔΙΟΣ ΘΕΟΙΣ ΣΩΤΗΡΣΙΝ ΥΠΕΡ ΤΩΝ ΠΛΩΙΖΟΜΕΝΩΝ (“Sostratus, son-of-Dexiphanes, from-Cnidos, [dedicated-this] to-the-Savior Gods, on-behalf-of the seafarers” - Greek Source: Lucian)
 

(This 1909 Thiersch reconstruction is fanciful in some ways (he "added" to what the sources describe as per his best judgement) but here he shows well where the inscription goes, even if he has a spelling mistake:

thiersch2.thumb.jpg.d4033a976bed24b75b46249ef3209cb3.jpg
(The following is a poem of the great poet Poseidippos ~310 BC – 240 BC, born at Pella in Macedonia, who moved to Alexandria and described life in that city. He was almost certainly an eyewitness to the construction of the Pharos.)

ΕΛΛΗΝΩΝ ΣΩΤΗΡΑ ΦΑΡΟΥ ΣΚΟΠΟΝ Ω ΑΝΑ ΠΡΩΤΕΥ    This safeguard/saviour of Greeks, this watchman of Pharos, O! Lord Proteus,
ΣΩΣΤΡΑΤΟΣ ΕΣΤΗΣΕΝ ΔΕΞΙΦΑΝΟΥΣ ΚΝΙΔΙΟΣ    was erected by Sostratos, son of Dexiphanes, from Knidos.
ΟΥ ΓΑΡ ΕΝ ΑΙΓΥΠΤΩΙ ΣΚΟΠΑΙ ΟΥΡΕΟΣ ΟΙ ΕΠΙ ΝΗΣΩΝ    In Egypt, thou shalt not have observation posts on heights of islands:
ΑΛΛΑ ΧΑΜΑΙ ΧΗΛΗ ΝΑΥΛΟΧΟΣ ΕΚΤΕΤΑΤΑΙ    but the bay which welcometh the vessels spreads level
ΤΟΥ ΧΑΡΙΝ ΕΥΘΕΙΑΝ ΤΕ ΚΑΙ ΟΡΘΙΟΝ ΑΙΘΕΡΑ ΤΕΜΝΕΙΝ    with the waters. Therefore, standing up straight, appearing to cleave the sky,

ΠΥΡΓΟΣ ΟΔ ΑΠΛΑΤΩΝ ΦΑΙΝΕΤ ΑΠΟ ΣΤΑΔΙΩΝ     is a tower, which can be seen from infinite distance
ΗΜΑΤΙ ΠΑΝΝΥΧΙΟΣ ΔΕ ΘΟΩΣ ΕΝ ΚΥΜΑΤΙ ΝΑΥΤΗΣ     in the daytime; at during the dark night, the sailor shall notice
ΟΨΕΤΑΙ ΕΚ ΚΟΡΥΦΗΣ ΠΥΡ ΜΕΓΑ ΚΑΙΟΜΕΝΟΝ    the big fire burning on top quite quickly in the middle of the waves
ΚΑΙ ΚΕΝ ΕΠ ΑΥΤΟ ΔΡΑΜΟΙ ΤΑΥΡΟΥ ΚΕΡΑΣ ΟΥΔ ΑΝ ΑΜΑΡΤΟΙ    And shall sail straight to the bull's Horn, and he shall not fail to reach ( * "bull's horn" was the perilously narrow entrance called )
ΣΩΤΗΡΟΣ ΠΡΩΤΕΥ ΖΗΝΟΣ Ο ΤΗΙΔΕ ΠΛΕΩΝ     Zeus Savior, O! Proteus, whoever sails in these parts.


 

Underwater exploration in the waters of the collapsed pharos so far revealed 3525 architectural pieces, among them:

5 obelisks
32 sphinxes
6 papyriform columns (reused from dynastic Heliopolis)
a corinthian capital, attic bases etc.

A white-lightyellow stone was used for the body.

The following in granite:
9 large statues including 2 colossal statues depicting Ptolemaic pharaos and queens
Frames of portals/windows, column shafts etc.
Frame of huge monumental gate in Doric style - measurements:
12.77m x 4.09m ( x Depth: 2.1m)

 

In light of these findings, the lower largest segment may need to have its sides straightened, either somewhat or completely. I will fix the windows last, or maybe we will save polygons by just making the four sides smooth and instead add texture to show limstoneblocks and windows.

Edited by Anaxandridas ho Skandiates
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@LordGood outstanding work as always. Maybe scale down walls+walltowers+freestandingtowers by just 2%? They are slightly overtall if you ask my sensitive eye. Instead just make a two-step platform and raise platform, like in wallpainting below

(And consider making tower-roofs empty, vis-a-vis good arms resource use, and what shields could avail anyone atop a tower)

As for the towers, can you make the "player colour" visible in a less disturbing way? They were so nice here, can't you just place a shield in player colour and let that be it? Surely only wall-towers strictly need playercolour, or? :

Quote

screenshot0123.png

 

 

 

1335248608_Fresco_Isis_Npoles_36.thumb.jpg.5b66da514f8d3d6d83b9a893e44ea836.jpg

Edited by Anaxandridas ho Skandiates
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Temple is good up until the architrave, roof needs slight texture adjustment. Not much adjustment needed though, just:

1. Make spikes and 'roundpediment-stripe-band' thinner.
2. Give all roof+spikes+architrave a shiny gold texture:
3. Make the shield the only playercolourmarker, rather than those broad "stripes" on sides
(If you think more playercolourmarkers needed, suggestion: give playercolour to top akroteria + its 2 flanking "wings", and make rest shiny uniform gold, including whole architrave?)

see this super-hi-res file:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f1/Praeneste_-_Nile_Mosaic_-_Section_13_-_Detail_2.jpg

- And just to be a pain, but because I am such a lovely person right, could you grace the temples with a central small altar in front? (rough idea below:)

altar.jpg.21a93106ef2d1e85722b27762f4ba80e.jpg

There is an altar model here:
https://www.myminifactory.com/object/3d-print-altar-dedicated-to-mars-and-venus-33480

I think even the simplest lowest-poly resemblance to that altar will do, since it is so tiny?

Edited by Anaxandridas ho Skandiates
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  • 2 months later...

@LordGood Ok, I found one little thing to nitpick :P 

Your entrances are all a little offset from the center, either to the right or to the left. This is perfectly fine! But the decals have a pathway leading into the center of the front walls. Simply adjusting the decal to become 2 different decals with a pathway either on the left or on the right would be all it takes to fix (I don't know about template stuff though). 

Is it possible to retexture the houses with the Kushite texture pack to create Kushite variants? Then we'd have some minimal architectural overlap between the two civs (like with the Greek civs).

Then you can add the Hellenized house variants you made earlier for the Ptolemies to the Ptolemaic roster as well. Then Ptolemies would be using 4 "Egyptian" style house variants in addition to 4 "Greek" style variants, and the Kushites would be using 4 "Egyptian" style variants in addition to 4 "Nubian" style variants. It would be the most historically accurate, visually interesting, and highlight some of the commonalities between the two Nile Valley Civs, while still maintaining their uniqueness. 

Again, lovely work! I'll be playing a lot more Ptolemies in the future :) 

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So, I'm making a map set in Egypt that is really eye candy-heavy. I'm trying to make it nice and rich with Egyptian and Ptolemaic flavor. I've done things like this with current assets:

Entrance/Facade for a pyramid

Spoiler

t8I3Rha.jpg

 

A large religious complex

Spoiler

Dy1iwjX.jpg

 

Temples and other stuff up atop plateaus and in the sides of cliffs.

Spoiler

 

IRl579s.jpg

C5I14NK.jpg

 

 

Every player starts with a free Cult Statue (for a trickle of glory resource) on a nearby outcrop

Spoiler

naYZZAq.jpg

 

And each player starts with a free Egyptian Kiosk (you should add this to the core game) and Priest 

Spoiler

mGOhbG5.jpg

 

So, I'm trying to put something nice here, but I'd like it to be something new. It would be cool to have another Ptolemaic Egyptian structure there (in place of the Temple of Vesta:

Spoiler

t0n9gaX.jpg

 

Thinking a shrine, something looking like these references (I really like the first one):

Praeneste_-_Nile_Mosaic_-_Section_16_-_Detail.jpgIsis_Pompeya_17.JPGPompeii_-_Temple_of_Isis_1_-_MAN.jpg

The template can go into the game as ptol_shrine. Maybe a small healing radius and no healer training and techs. 

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On 9/15/2019 at 4:44 AM, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

So, I'm making a map set in Egypt that is really eye candy-heavy. I'm trying to make it nice and rich with Egyptian and Ptolemaic flavor. I've done things like this with current assets:

Entrance/Facade for a pyramid

  Reveal hidden contents

t8I3Rha.jpg

 

A large religious complex

  Reveal hidden contents

Dy1iwjX.jpg

 

Temples and other stuff up atop plateaus and in the sides of cliffs.

  Reveal hidden contents

 

IRl579s.jpg

C5I14NK.jpg

 

 

Every player starts with a free Cult Statue (for a trickle of glory resource) on a nearby outcrop

  Reveal hidden contents

naYZZAq.jpg

 

And each player starts with a free Egyptian Kiosk (you should add this to the core game) and Priest 

  Reveal hidden contents

mGOhbG5.jpg

 

So, I'm trying to put something nice here, but I'd like it to be something new. It would be cool to have another Ptolemaic Egyptian structure there (in place of the Temple of Vesta:

  Reveal hidden contents

t0n9gaX.jpg

 

Thinking a shrine, something looking like these references (I really like the first one):

Praeneste_-_Nile_Mosaic_-_Section_16_-_Detail.jpgIsis_Pompeya_17.JPGPompeii_-_Temple_of_Isis_1_-_MAN.jpg

The template can go into the game as ptol_shrine. Maybe a small healing radius and no healer training and techs. 

Sorry I was busy with research for Attic voices! - you could EASILY make the Vesta temple Ptolemaic, by just:

- adding a one-level shiny gold roof
- removing roof "eye" + smoke
- making the colour of columns uniform, and colouring all sub-roof parts "beige-white-yellow-Egyptian-stone-colour"
- for added flavou: place tiny sphinxes on small pedestals in front of temple, flanking entrance

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@wowgetoffyourcellphone @LordGood
ALSO EASY EYECANDY W NO EXTRA WORK:
these colonnades on top of the hill, make them extendable by removing acroterion left/right.

Nothing would be more awesomely Ptolemaic than endless colonnades, seafront/nilefront!

 

(Also how did you manage to remove the "pots/plants" in front of the right colonnade?)

 

Dy1iwjX.jpg&key=c92e20c4520c39cd1fda3f4c

Edited by Anaxandridas ho Skandiates
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4 hours ago, Anaxandridas ho Skandiates said:

@wowgetoffyourcellphone @LordGood
ALSO EASY EYECANDY W NO EXTRA WORK:
these colonnades on top of the hill, make them extendable by removing acroterion left/right.

Nothing would be more awesomely Ptolemaic than endless colonnades, seafront/nilefront!

 

(Also how did you manage to remove the "pots/plants" in front of the right colonnade?)

 

Dy1iwjX.jpg&key=c92e20c4520c39cd1fda3f4c

Actually the game has freestanding collonades already, for the Seleucids but they don't have to be used strictly for them. But I think you want an endless row of roofed portico too, which would be nice. Just need left and right ends too.

The stoa on the right might already be in the game in actor form, but if not it can easily be taken from Delenda Est.

It would be nice if the Aphrodite statue got some love. It pretty much looks half finished. 

Edited by wowgetoffyourcellphone
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4 hours ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

Actually the game has freestanding collonades already, for the Seleucids but they don't have to be used strictly for them. But I think you want an endless row of roofed portico too, which would be nice. Just need left and right ends too.

The stoa on the right might already be in the game in actor form, but if not it can easily be taken from Delenda Est.

It would be nice if the Aphrodite statue got some love. It pretty much looks half finished. 

 

How much stuff from this "Delenda est" mod can you just "import" directly into the next alpha? And if "Delenda Est" looks so much better as screenshots recently attested, why are those tweaks not simply incorporated into the next alpha as standard, so all can enjoy it?

The greater the arsenal of eyecandy-buildings readily available to the average user at clickpoint, the easier it is for everyone to make fancy maps. Especially if they (like me) have not the slightest idea how to do any more than operate the bare scenario-editor.


Concerning statues:
https://www.myminifactory.com/users/Scan The World
https://sketchfab.com/geoffreymarchal

There are a few ones out there like these, some of them already public domain, others I am sure we could get creators to sign disclaimers for the very simplified low-poly versions needed for 0 A.D.! And essentially we do not need that much detail at all for statues are tiny (take care you don't exaggerate size on these ones too ;) ).
I would put it last on our priority list, because these publicdomain collections of scanned statues just keep growing and growing, in ever better quality - that means in a few years, batch scale-down to lowpoly, and have the 0 A.D. texture-squad put some of the four-five realistic colours on it (and some shiny gold and silver) AND BOOM: you have dozens of statues ready to place with a click.

But @Basshunter had started on a realistic Athena and that is really the only one to worry about, because it is THE statue that we need to create.

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@Anaxandridas ho Skandiates I'm afraid the statue won't be ready any time soon :(. About a month ago, part of my PC files were accidentally deleted, including the ones corresponding to The Great Bronze Athena. Unfortunately I didn't have my files backed up. I had invested a lot of time and effort on this statue, but now it's gone. At this point I'm not sure whether I should start again or just resign. I'm sorry.

Edited by Basshunter
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1 hour ago, Anaxandridas ho Skandiates said:

How much stuff from this "Delenda est" mod can you just "import" directly into the next alpha? And if "Delenda Est" looks so much better as screenshots recently attested, why are those tweaks not simply incorporated into the next alpha as standard, so all can enjoy it?

The only assets he's using here that aren't in the vanilla distribution are his cult statues?

 

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