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OK thanks. Nice to see you've done the linguistic work and researched him. 

The catch is the same site that debunks him attacks personal friends of mine some of whom I've worked for. I guess they get it right some times. 

I'll have to have a word with someone at the omniglot site. 

Edited by Wesley
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Meroë, Temple M 250, the so-called Sun Temple

Art by Sundiata (Malcolm Quartey)

480990357_TempleM250MeroKingdomofKushKushiteSundanSunTempleNubia2.thumb.jpg.a759cda1aff7a75f22c1463014d62abe.jpg

The 1st century BC Meroitic period temple on the outskirts of the capital. It is still uncertain which god(s) it was dedicated to. Making use of the Kushite textures (by LordGood and Wowgetoffyourcellphone, if I'm not mistaken). I've suggested this structure as the Kushite wonder before, and thought I'd just give it a go myself. The model isn't finished yet (texturing). It's less than 10.000 tris (and I don't expect to add any more geometry), so I sincerely hope it can replace the current wonder (which looks great and can still be used in Atlas).

(Those acacia trees were just a free asset I found somewhere. Using an HDRI to light the scene for the first time.)

 

2029860316_M250test.thumb.jpg.20b729760ce42ef689a941e52c9725bf.jpg

 

1865105770_ScreenShot2019-03-06at06_21_50.thumb.png.743e9e8475555ccc0bc471e81210ee97.png

 

Quote

"The site has most recently been examined in 1984 and 1985 by the Central Institute of Ancient History and Archaeology of the Academy of Sciences (Berlin). In 1986 and 1987 conservation work on the very endangered temple structure was begun by the Sudan Directorate General of Antiquities and National Museums. 

The temple (Meroe 250) stood in a nearly square temenos (Meroe 249) surrounded by a mudbrick wall (Meroe 247), 2.7m thick, which was faced with fired bricks and a coat of lime plaster. Two of the four entrances, the east and west gates, were constructed in stone masonry. From the east gate, the main entrance, a paved causeway (dromos) led to the temple proper. The temple was built in the style of Meroitic one-room temples, with a pylon, fifty cubits wide, in front. Reliefs on the lowest register of the south (exterior) wall depict battle scenes with enemies being slaughtered. On the northern wall reliefs show the triumphal return of soldiers, accompanied by captured men, women and children. These scenes are repeated on many of the 700 relief blocks found scattered at the site, which may have come from the upper faces of the temple’s walls. 

Most of the temple was surrounded by a type of colonnade (peridromos) with an estimated seventy-two columns decorated with open papyrus capitals. An important scene on the west wall includes a southern elevation of the temple showing the colonnade. Archaeological evidence dates the colonnade (and thus the reliefs) to Ptolemaic or Roman times. Iconographic details also demonstrate that the reliefs date to the end of the first century BC/beginning of the first century AD. 

From the dromos the temple was entered by a ramp through the pylon gateway. An inner court (hypaethral), raised 2m above the ground, was surrounded by fifty-one columns (peristyle) with open papyrus capitals. Within this court was a temple with an elevated interior containing a rectangular sanctuary surrounded by a narrow ambulatory. Small stairs provided access from the court to the rear of the inner temple and its ambulatory."

http://what-when-how.com/archaeology-of-ancient-egypt/meroe-city-to-meroe-the-sun-temple-archaeology-of-ancient-egypt/

 

References:

Spoiler

2137872779_KingdomofKushKushitesuntempleM250Meroeaerialshot.thumb.jpg.81df9c612b0a93e743f1cb0a176a740b.jpg14578296999_729cb8be2f_o.thumb.jpg.0bce1dc4fa51acfe65a0ca5b0f5a39a3.jpg14764612612_6c85783d76_o.thumb.jpg.e3568cdd192a6fe5405b998492cfeab9.jpg14741936116_16620a2121_o.thumb.jpg.784ee6ec0956f1ce23b708023427e6a3.jpg174_5819_full.thumb.jpg.bf7cb710fb18f1f15acc8427f9f0fc25.jpg174_5820_full.thumb.jpg.4d4110f904c8f9fb859c760c8ea00f88.jpg

 

Actual relief from the temple, depicting the temple itself (templeception)

264282288_kingdomofkushkushitereliefsmeroitictempleM250meroesuntemplelowerpodiumhorseshorsemenkingkiosk1stcenturyBC.thumb.jpg.ab4489adc987afff71905219dabf150b.jpgmerocityofethiop00gars_0095.thumb.jpg.9b72d553a88ba4fb51e7008fcf38c06b.jpgtmp10C17_thumb1.thumb.jpg.079a11722102dfb1568369708a2e4cc4.jpgbg3.thumb.png.9d6262e98b8b59db722373e19317ab9d.png1457224528_KingdomofkushkushitetempleM250meroeplanmapso-calledsuntemple.thumb.jpg.01d616ba979429dbddc2c34e0c4617f7.jpg371464361_KingdomofKushKushiteSuntempleM250Meroe3Dreconstruction2.thumb.jpg.826272d2a609982e4298e41fa9fc6ff9.jpg1892505833_KingdomofKushKushitesuntempleM250Meroe3Dreconstruction3.thumb.jpg.d516f2a8e17b2bea48fbdd3832aede30.jpg632469225_TheKingdomofKushKushitetempleM250victorytempleinMeroSunTemple.thumb.jpg.e78c055f792f87a8b7c8475d19c04f95.jpg

 

Edited by Sundiata
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2 minutes ago, LordGood said:

oh lAWD he's done it!

lol! I keep getting carried away with things that aren't priority... But I learn so much in the process... 

3 minutes ago, LordGood said:

 If you want to break up those walls a little bit you can add the downspouts from the set temples, but if not, it's definitely fine as is

Yes! I thought about it and then forgot about it... 

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1 hour ago, Sundiata said:

Meroë, Temple M 250, the so-called Sun Temple

Art by Sundiata (Malcolm Quartey)

480990357_TempleM250MeroKingdomofKushKushiteSundanSunTempleNubia2.thumb.jpg.a759cda1aff7a75f22c1463014d62abe.jpg

The 1st century BC Meroitic period temple on the outskirts of the capital. It is still uncertain which god(s) it was dedicated to. Making use of the Kushite textures (by LordGood and Wowgetoffyourcellphone, if I'm not mistaken). I've suggested this structure as the Kushite wonder before, and thought I'd just give it a go myself. The model isn't finished yet (texturing). It's less than 10.000 tris (and I don't expect to add any more geometry), so I sincerely hope it can replace the current wonder (which looks great and can still be used in Atlas).

(Those acacia trees were just a free asset I found somewhere. Using an HDRI to light the scene for the first time.)

 

2029860316_M250test.thumb.jpg.20b729760ce42ef689a941e52c9725bf.jpg

 

1865105770_ScreenShot2019-03-06at06_21_50.thumb.png.743e9e8475555ccc0bc471e81210ee97.png

 

 

References:

  Reveal hidden contents

2137872779_KingdomofKushKushitesuntempleM250Meroeaerialshot.thumb.jpg.81df9c612b0a93e743f1cb0a176a740b.jpg14578296999_729cb8be2f_o.thumb.jpg.0bce1dc4fa51acfe65a0ca5b0f5a39a3.jpg14764612612_6c85783d76_o.thumb.jpg.e3568cdd192a6fe5405b998492cfeab9.jpg14741936116_16620a2121_o.thumb.jpg.784ee6ec0956f1ce23b708023427e6a3.jpg174_5819_full.thumb.jpg.bf7cb710fb18f1f15acc8427f9f0fc25.jpg174_5820_full.thumb.jpg.4d4110f904c8f9fb859c760c8ea00f88.jpg

 

Actual relief from the temple, depicting the temple itself (templeception)

264282288_kingdomofkushkushitereliefsmeroitictempleM250meroesuntemplelowerpodiumhorseshorsemenkingkiosk1stcenturyBC.thumb.jpg.ab4489adc987afff71905219dabf150b.jpgmerocityofethiop00gars_0095.thumb.jpg.9b72d553a88ba4fb51e7008fcf38c06b.jpgtmp10C17_thumb1.thumb.jpg.079a11722102dfb1568369708a2e4cc4.jpgbg3.thumb.png.9d6262e98b8b59db722373e19317ab9d.png1457224528_KingdomofkushkushitetempleM250meroeplanmapso-calledsuntemple.thumb.jpg.01d616ba979429dbddc2c34e0c4617f7.jpg371464361_KingdomofKushKushiteSuntempleM250Meroe3Dreconstruction2.thumb.jpg.826272d2a609982e4298e41fa9fc6ff9.jpg1892505833_KingdomofKushKushitesuntempleM250Meroe3Dreconstruction3.thumb.jpg.d516f2a8e17b2bea48fbdd3832aede30.jpg632469225_TheKingdomofKushKushitetempleM250victorytempleinMeroSunTemple.thumb.jpg.e78c055f792f87a8b7c8475d19c04f95.jpg

 

that's its utterly impressive. I hope have a such  impressive building inside the Atlas.

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1 hour ago, Sundiata said:

lol! I keep getting carried away with things that aren't priority... But I learn so much in the process... 

Yes! I thought about it and then forgot about it... 

I  have question this temple shinning  like the Egyptian pyramids? I mean by reflecting the sun.

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12 hours ago, Diatryma said:

I  have question this temple shinning  like the Egyptian pyramids? I mean by reflecting the sun.

The temple was built from sandstone and fired brick, which was then plastered with white lime plaster. In the 6th image of the references you can still clearly see the patchy remains of the 2000 year old plaster. So yes, this temple, like most, if not all Kushite temples, palaces and elite residences in other royal cities like Naqa, Basa, Muweis and others would have been gleaming white under the Sudanese sun (or broken white because of all the sand). Some of the Egyptian pyramids looked white because of the polished limestone they used (limestone is very rare in Nubia).

 

7 hours ago, stanislas69 said:

Nice work Sundiata. Keep it up and you might be one of us one day :)

Hahaha, lol... Why do I get this ominous feeling?

 

7 hours ago, LordGood said:

Hey sundiata see if you can get it in the engine, that way you get familiar with the process and can start cranking out new civs for TM :p

Like this, right? https://trac.wildfiregames.com/wiki/Basic3DImplementation

 

 

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The fall of a Tyrant

Wow, a historic day for Sudan. Today, April 11th, 2019, after 5 months of bloody protests, the military of Sudan has announced the removal from office, and subsequent arrest of president Omar al-Bashir, Sudan's sitting president for the past 30 years... Omar al-Bashir was a war criminal with a shocking body count of 1.5 million deaths in the civil war with South Sudan and between 200.000 and 400.000 deaths from the genocide in Darfur. There were so many evils about his rule, I wouldn't even know where to start...

The Nubian Queens were present in full force! The now iconic Alaa Salah is actually being called a "Kandake"... :) 

1550517541_NubianQueenSudanesewomenproteseterprotests2019.jpg.115a0ee5cad520c3e7234e8588b2333a.jpg

 

Just since the last few days, soldiers started defending protesters after they saw Bashir's security forces firing at them. At least 6 soldiers were killed defending the people. Today the military said enough is enough and announced a transitional government. The protesters (and the African Union) aren't happy by the military take over either, and will continue protesting until a civilian government is installed. A luta continua! Power to the people of Sudan!

 

Bahsir.thumb.jpg.e2447ba2977aea162ec7a392d20d53e7.jpg

gettyimages-1135619686-1.jpg.9cf00d686417ab26a946d1188764d32e.jpg56610457_10157530997668646_3443307338839097344_o.thumb.jpg.f4068ff161d4e1c2e48dfcb6a2da32ae.jpg

5632.thumb.jpg.e09b89696cbb17c59d7f85d9dc18f421.jpg

3500-1.thumb.jpg.3fe62ef9511b467a44bbc784b21569dc.jpg

3500.thumb.jpg.aeefb465efbfb24315bb4b1efc5312ac.jpg

 

Edited by Sundiata
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1 hour ago, av93 said:

I dont know much about african politics, but seems that either it comes another dictator or if the politic its a good one, it comes another coup.

Yeah, Sudan's electoral system hasn't exactly been functional the past 3 decades, so it's hard to tell where it's going... The Defense Minister, Awad Mohamed Ahmed Ibn Auf seems to be calling the shots for now. They did arrest a significant number of people close to Bashir as well, and the military ordered the release of political prisoners, so something definitely got uprooted. There are some clear parallels to the uprising in Algeria that recently ousted president Bouteflika, as well as the Oromo and popular uprising in Ethiopia that lead to the rise of Abiy Ahmed as the new Prime Minister, and he honestly seems to be working miracles up to now. People are just fed up, you know... "Democracy" might not be working but the least we can expect from our leaders is to not be genocidal maniacs... It's really not that much to ask. 

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Similar to what's happened in North Korea. The real dictator there were two of the old generals. They're now gone and Kim Jong-un is in control. Some think his family was hostage and when Trump says "all the hostages are free" he's talking about KJU's kids. KJU is not in full control but he's getting there. 

We also had a palace Coup in Saudi Arabia after the strong man military prince died in a chopper crash. I don't think that was an assassination but someone, Mohammad bin Salman, was ready to go when it happened. They tried to smear the new crown prince with the Khashoggi thing but failed. I think Khashoggi has just been arrested and taken home alive but the Turks jumped to the murder conclusion so the Saudis played along. The Turkish police timeline has hole in it. 

With Sudan the question's are: Is there a real reformer in the country? Can the muslim population really do freedom [that's a worldwide question]? Are there foreign players? China? Did some islamist cross the wrong Chinese engineer and his family? That was a predictable risk.  
Is the USA & Trump helping? Or someone from the USA but on the opposing side to Trump? Europe?
Or is it fully home grown and the product of modern social media technology? Many Questions. It looks hopeful.
Hopefully it will also mean the lights go back on for our friends in South America too.  

All a bit much for a gaming site and a little off topic but we are seeing liberty coming to many interesting places but in a manor that's totally new.  

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21 hours ago, Sundiata said:

The Defense Minister, Awad Mohamed Ahmed Ibn Auf seems to be calling the shots for now.

And he's stepped down today: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-47913338

6 hours ago, Wesley said:

Similar to what's happened in North Korea.

Really?

6 hours ago, Wesley said:

I think Khashoggi has just been arrested and taken home alive but the Turks jumped to the murder conclusion so the Saudis played along.

Seriously?

6 hours ago, Wesley said:

Can the muslim population really do freedom [that's a worldwide question]?

What do you mean?

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Nescio there is a lot going on behind the scenes and a few web sites are talking about it. My blog talks about it.
http://appliedimpossibilies.blogspot.com/2018/06/success-for-korean-liberty-at-singapore.html 

Essentially there are several ways to solve the problem of dictatorships. Two dominate how the world does things: the two side of the council on foreign relations (CFR) duel it out politely in public: Sanctions and isolation verses bribes and blind eyes. The left and right of western foreign policy. The third is assassination. The forth is to find someone in the dictators country and empower them. That fourth has no been tried for decades but its being tried now.  Its a dangerous game. 

Since WW2 only three US Presidents were not CFR members: John F Kennedy, Reagan and Trump. Kennedy's older brother, Joseph Patrick Kennedy Jr,was groomed by the CFR and was destined for the White House but he died in an accident in the war. Testing a flying bomb is not the safest post. His family was not happy that he took a dangerous job without telling them.   
PM me for more its not appropriate to divert the forum. 

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37 minutes ago, stanislas69 said:

@Sundiata Do you think you could find the IPA for the Kushite specific names ?

Ah, yes, I was waiting for someone to remind me (now I know you really want it :P )  I'll be a little busy the coming days, but it will get done :) 

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20 minutes ago, Sundiata said:

Ah, yes, I was waiting for someone to remind me (now I know you really want it :P )  I'll be a little busy the coming days, but it will get done :) 

Thanks I will remind you if you forget :)

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Even from the grave, Angus McBride never ceases to amaze me. Here, an illustration depicting Meroitic period iron working in the Kingdom of Kush. If there are any old timers that have access to this very rare publication, "Look and Learn Incorporating Ranger Magazine, The Story of Africa: The Negro Pharaohs, Apr 27 1968, by Mary Cathcart Borer", you'd be a hero for sharing it, because there might be more where this came from... 1968! Angus McBride was definitely ahead of his time! 

604795926_MeroiticMetalIronsmithworkerworkingKingdomofKushKushiteNubiaSudanLookandLearnIncorporating-neApr271968MaryCathcartBorerillustratedbyangusmcbride.thumb.jpg.1dab632452b809f701becdab376fcb3d.jpg

Meroitic Iron smith hammering away at an elongated spearhead a short sword, while a second smith is tempering another weapon. To the left a Meroitic royal or nobleman is inspecting a newly made short sword. In the background, the furnaces for Iron smelting can be made out, as well as some steeply sloped pyramids further in the distance. 

 

Edited by Sundiata
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  • 4 weeks later...

@Genava55 Thanks, very interesting, and nice to see more of this info disseminated to a larger audience :) 

I do feel like he missed a lot... It's actually not a video of "Roman trade with Africa", but more a video of "Roman trade on the Indian Ocean". 

His maps aren't that accurate. And no mention of Kush :cry:

Rhapta (in modern day Tanzania), Nicon and Sarapion were much further South than his map depicts. 

Nubia wasn't a term used in the 1st century. The Kingdom of Kush was actually a much more important trading partner with Rome than his glossing over the region suggests, and unlike the "primary" sources he refers to (the writings of the Periplus of the Erythraean Sea which deals specifically with the Indian Ocean trade), the evidence of Roman-Kushite trade can be clearly seen in the archaeological record, as well as other written sources. Also, how could he not mention Nero's "peaceful but not so innocent" expedition to find the source of the Nile, in collaboration with the reigning Kushite monarch? 

There is no mention of the Roman trading expeditions to West Africa :( 

No mention of Cornelius Balbus expedition, who defeated the Garamantes in 19 BC and sent an expedition further South that reached a huge river, probably the Niger river! Roman coins and apparently even ceramics were found in Mali...

No mention of Suetonius Paulinus expedition which may have reached the Senegal River. Roman coins and fibula attest to commercial links at least as far south as modern day southern Mauritania. 

No mention of Septimius Flaccus and his joint Roman-Garamantian commercial expedition which reached lake Chad.

Likewise no mention of Julius Maternus who also lead a joint Roman-Garamantian commercial expedition to the same area (Central African Republic) 

 

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9 hours ago, Sundiata said:

His maps aren't that accurate. And no mention of Kush :cry: 

This is a common problem in the channel, most of their map are sh*t. When they talked about the skirmish around Geneva between Caesar and the Helvetii, they put the position of the oppidum at the other side of the Rhone and the bridge got misplaced after the conjunction with the Arve river... This is so f*cked up. Moreover, they used the map from Rome 2 TW as a reference for the position of the Gallic tribes... so naive. Furthermore, they are popularizing the myth that the Marian reforms existed as something written in the stone.

Kings and Generals is of mediocre quality for the accuracy but some times in a few topics they give interesting information. This is only an introduction and clearly we should fact check their videos. I think they have an excessive productivity and are too much focused on releasing videos than verifying their sources. I saw they mostly worked with Osprey titles... which are really problematic on some topics.

9 hours ago, Sundiata said:

There is no mention of the Roman trading expeditions to West Africa :( 

It seems they have a general problem with geography and for them "Africa" is only below Egypt :lol: I noticed too that they skipped the other part of North Africa.

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On 4/27/2019 at 2:52 PM, Sundiata said:

Even from the grave, Angus McBride never ceases to amaze me. Here, an illustration depicting Meroitic period iron working in the Kingdom of Kush. If there are any old timers that have access to this very rare publication, "Look and Learn Incorporating Ranger Magazine, The Story of Africa: The Negro Pharaohs, Apr 27 1968, by Mary Cathcart Borer", you'd be a hero for sharing it, because there might be more where this came from... 1968! Angus McBride was definitely ahead of his time! 

604795926_MeroiticMetalIronsmithworkerworkingKingdomofKushKushiteNubiaSudanLookandLearnIncorporating-neApr271968MaryCathcartBorerillustratedbyangusmcbride.thumb.jpg.1dab632452b809f701becdab376fcb3d.jpg

Meroitic Iron smith hammering away at an elongated spearhead, while a second smith is tempering another weapon. To the left a Meroitic royal or nobleman is inspecting a newly made short sword. In the background, the furnaces for Iron smelting can be made out, as well as some steeply sloped pyramids further in the distance. 

 

@Sundiata, @Genava55 are there blacksmith hammer head reconstructions ? All the images I see seem too... Modern ?

 

 

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