Macedonian wonder

[Lion.Kanzen]

10 minutes ago, m7600 said:

Thank you @Carltonus and @wowgetoffyourcellphone for the suggestions and kind words!

And to @Lion.Kanzen's confused reaction to my first work in progress for the Macedonian Wonder... yeah I'm not even gonna delve too much into that. I guess some things never change.

It is normal, it seems a bit weird to me or a wonder with the texture so strange. Basically it is the same comment that they made to you before, what happens is that as someone else did it, it did not bother you.

 

I suppose a very good selection was made later. 

 

But in reality it contains the wonder not your work.So you should relax a bit.

 

The second is very beautiful and as he said Wow ... It only lacks a couple of ornaments, only small details.

 

Congratulations, if I were you to leave the past behind.Nice work and I'm not here to bother you.

[Nescio]

12 hours ago, m7600 said:

Quick update. It's still a work in progress. I don't have a lot free time lately, so the little that I have I've been spending it on the Macedonian Wonder.

That's looking promising, thanks for sharing!

It's important to get some details right, though:

• the palace at Aigai (now Vergina) was larger than the Parthenon in Athens or any other building in Classical Greece;
• columns were Doric and not part of walls (engaged columns were used in imperial Roman architecture)
• the inner courtyard was square and had a colonnade on all four sides;
• the east side (front) had two storeys, each with a colonnade;
• the north side had a veranda, which gave a great view at the theatre, temples, and rest of the plain below;
• at the west side there was a smaller extension with another square, colonnaded courtyard.

Some images showing how the site looks nowadays:

Spoiler

 

[Sundiata]

@m7600, indeed, the model is looking fantastic already! 

Here's a detailed proposed reconstruction of the facade, that I think looks really great and should be useful to interpret Nescio's suggestion:

26 minutes ago, Nescio said:

• the east side (front) had two storeys, each with a colonnade;

[Nescio]

1 hour ago, Nescio said:

the inner courtyard was square and had a colonnade on all four sides;

To be precise, the central courtyard had 60 columns (16 on each side).

1 hour ago, Nescio said:

at the west side there was a smaller extension with another square, colonnaded courtyard.

That smaller courtyard had 34 columns (on the north and south sides 10 each and 9 each on the east and west sides). I don't know if your design is large enough to accommodate that many columns, though.

1 hour ago, Sundiata said:

@m7600, indeed, the model is looking fantastic already! 

Here's a detailed proposed reconstruction of the facade, that I think looks really great and should be useful to interpret Nescio's suggestion:

That image and other artist's impressions were already posted earlier in this thread: https://wildfiregames.com/forum/topic/20820-macedonian-wonder/page/2/?tab=comments#comment-394657

[m7600]

Small update. Under construction. Working on the front side, based on your suggestions and information.

 

[Lion.Kanzen]

@wowgetoffyourcellphone @Nescio

[Nescio]

Could you show it from a different angle? I'd like to be able to see the other two sides too, as well as the central courtyard. And perhaps zoom in to better show the columns? Furthermore, how does it look in game? How large is it, compared to other wonders?

I'm not too fond of the steps, trees, and corner decorations around the structure either.

[m7600]

@NescioIt looks much worse from all the other angles, since I'm just doing one side and then I mirror it at the end. I don't use the mirror modifier when I'm working on one angle because my pc is a bit slow, and I need to be careful about managing the memory, otherwise it's crash after crash. But I'll work on it a bit more this week and I'll provide you with those angles.

Compared to the other wonders, it's about as big as the new Gaul wonder. I'll post some screenshots later this week with the comparisons.

About how it looks in game: putting this thing into the game is another can of worms. You see, unlike other civs, like the Kushites for example, the Macedonian buildings are actually split up into several different 3d models. So, for example, you have a model for the columns, then you have a different model for the roof, still a different model for the walls, another one for the plants, etc. I have no idea why these assets were made this way, but if I had to take a guess, I bet it's because they use many different textures. By contrast, most of the Kushite buildings use the same, single texture (except for some special buildings). What I'm saying is that, in order to put this thing in the game, I first have to export each part of the building separately, and each of those parts has to have its own ambient occlusion map, which, if it doesn't look good, has to be re-baked from scratch. This is why this thing is taking me so long, everything is split up into little pieces and I have to combine them with each other as if it was a giant jigsaw puzzle.

[Nescio]

34 minutes ago, m7600 said:

I'm just doing one side and then I mirror it at the end.

That's wrong, all four sides were slightly different from each other, have a careful look at the images I posted earlier.

35 minutes ago, m7600 said:

Compared to the other wonders, it's about as big as the new Gaul wonder.

While I'm aware wonders are not on the same scale, I'd appreciate it if the Macedonian wonder could be at least somewhat larger than the one used by Gauls. The palace at Aigai was really large, much larger than e.g. the temple of Zeus at Olympia (the current Macedonian and Athenian wonder).

39 minutes ago, m7600 said:

This is why this thing is taking me so long,

Take your time, doing things properly is far more important than doing it quickly. Besides, @Stan` is having a break, so technical feedback or having it committed won't happen soon anyway.

(In case it wasn't clear, you're doing a great job! I don't even know how Blender works .)

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

1 hour ago, Nescio said:

I'm not too fond of the steps, trees, and corner decorations around the structure either.

Christ.

 

@m7600 I love the trees and decor.  

Edited March 11, 2021 by wowgetoffyourcellphone

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

On 07/03/2021 at 6:54 AM, Nescio said:

On 07/03/2021 at 5:04 AM, Nescio said:

at the west side there was a smaller extension with another square, colonnaded courtyard.

 

Don't bother adding this unless you want a bunch of negative space in the structure's footprint (hint: you don't).

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

1 hour ago, m7600 said:

About how it looks in game: putting this thing into the game is another can of worms. You see, unlike other civs, like the Kushites for example, the Macedonian buildings are actually split up into several different 3d models. So, for example, you have a model for the columns, then you have a different model for the roof, still a different model for the walls, another one for the plants, etc. I have no idea why these assets were made this way, but if I had to take a guess, I bet it's because they use many different textures. By contrast, most of the Kushite buildings use the same, single texture (except for some special buildings). What I'm saying is that, in order to put this thing in the game, I first have to export each part of the building separately, and each of those parts has to have its own ambient occlusion map, which, if it doesn't look good, has to be re-baked from scratch. This is why this thing is taking me so long, everything is split up into little pieces and I have to combine them with each other as if it was a giant jigsaw puzzle.

Yeah, you just have to use the prop system in the actors later. As you guessed, it's because there were multiple textures used and at the time it was felt better to have separate textures instead of one gigantic texture sheet. Of course, at the time the definition of "gigantic" was different from what we'd call gigantic today.

[m7600]

Allow me to resolve this dispute about the plants. Since each side of the historical building was different, and since some people want plants and others don't, here's the solution: the left side will have plants, and the right side will not have them. Nah, just kidding, that would look ugly AF.

@Nescio I'd like to make the building as big as possible, sure. The only thing that worries me is a game-play issue. It's gonna be difficult to find some spot on the map to place a huge wonder. Other civs can get away with this, like the Athenians, Seleucids and Spartans, since their wonders are large, thin rectangles. It would be unfair for the player who has to place a huge square wonder somewhere, probably having to chop down half of a forest to do so. But anyway, I'm sure that can be worked out later.
 

9 minutes ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

Yeah, you just have to use the prop system in the actors later. As you guessed, it's because there were multiple textures used and at the time it was felt better to have separate textures instead of one gigantic texture sheet. Of course, at the time the definition of "gigantic" was different from what we'd call gigantic today.

You know, this gives me an idea. It may be nice to convert all of those textures into a single one. It doesn't have to be gigantic, the Kushite texture is an example of what can be done with just one medium-ish .png. And, if we put the textures together into a single file, then all of the different 3d parts (colums, roof, walls) could be joined into a single model, and hence a single file. I know that it would make my life much easier, but I'm curious to listen to other people's opinions on this.
 

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

4 minutes ago, m7600 said:

The only thing that worries me is a game-play issue. It's gonna be difficult to find some spot on the map to place a huge wonder

Well, as long as it fits within the same footprint as the Hanging Gardens it should be fine.  

 

5 minutes ago, m7600 said:

It may be nice to convert all of those textures into a single one

I thought about that a long time ago, but I'm not sure what's more efficient for the game's graphics memory footprint and then also rendering. Is it more efficient (for the game; I know which is more efficient for the artist) to have two 1024x512 textures or one 1024x1024 texture?

[m7600]

Making progress (I think). Here are some other angles. The plants are gone, as well as the steps. But I'm thinking of putting them in the central courtyard.

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

5 minutes ago, m7600 said:

Making progress (I think). Here are some other angles. The plants are gone, as well as the steps. But I'm thinking of putting them in the central courtyard.

Great progress so far!

[Carltonus]

  Indeed.

On 31/05/2020 at 3:11 PM, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

Appreciated if you added the supporting walls on the right in case a player builds this in uneven terrain such as a hilly area? We don't want to see semi-floating bricks again.

@Lion.Kanzen, do you have the shield and winged lions ready? The light-blue part can be the player color.

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

1 minute ago, Carltonus said:

Appreciated if you added the supporting walls on the right in case a player builds this in uneven terrain such as a hilly area? We don't want to see semi-floating bricks again.

Right. A masonry/stone platform would be good underneath. The Athenian wonder needs one too (Parthenon), as it currently floats over hills.

[maroder]

On 11/03/2021 at 10:24 PM, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

I thought about that a long time ago, but I'm not sure what's more efficient for the game's graphics memory footprint and then also rendering. Is it more efficient (for the game; I know which is more efficient for the artist) to have two 1024x512 textures or one 1024x1024 texture?

From my limited understanding it is better to have one big texture file, because in some cases (based on the render implementation) it decreases the performance if you draw a texture from one file and then switch to another. But maybe @vladislavbelovknows more about that?

[Lion.Kanzen]

3 hours ago, Carltonus said:

  Indeed.

Appreciated if you added the supporting walls on the right in case a player builds this in uneven terrain such as a hilly area? We don't want to see semi-floating bricks again.

@Lion.Kanzen, do you have the shield and winged lions ready? The light-blue part can be the player color.

I have to look for it because I moved it from my original folder but it was created to have it in another alternative cloud.

[Nescio]

5 hours ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

Right. A masonry/stone platform would be good underneath. The Athenian wonder needs one too (Parthenon), as it currently floats over hills.

Actually the Athenians need an entirely new wonder (the Parthenon). The actor they're using right now is the temple of Zeus at Olympia. Something for a future task.

[m7600]

Added some plants and decorations to the courtyard. Here's also some comparisons with other buildings. In the last screenshot, you can see the size difference between the Seleucid and Macedonian wonders.

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

5 hours ago, Nescio said:

Actually the Athenians need an entirely new wonder (the Parthenon). The actor they're using right now is the temple of Zeus at Olympia. Something for a future task.

Riiiiight. 

[m7600]

Testing it in game. It doesn't have the ambient occlusion maps yet. And there are some problems with the details (some normals are pointing the wrong way, so the texture becomes invisible. This is evident in the statues in the courtyard. Also, some grass from the terrain is sticking out from under the stone floor).

[Hidan]

Cant wait to see this

Edited March 13, 2021 by Hidan