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Heroes redesign concept


av93
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1.Suggestion (concept)

Let's start another suggestion thread. Hoping that would profit someone. This time is about heroes (very underused unit, mainly to kill sieges ) so let's go.

Currently, heroes have 4 variables:

- Avaliability (where and when you can train him)

- Cost

- Unit power (Is not the same Elephant than Spear hero)

- Bonus

So my point is to, instead of making each hero a concret bonus, let's take a specific number more general bonus and make combinations. For example:

- Think about 10 classes of total bonus/kind of Heroes

- Each civ get a combination of 3 heroes

In more concrete way (examples)

- Champion: No real bonus other than stronger heroe unit stat

- Governor: Economical heroe that with a boost of 15% bonus to nearby working units

- General: Nearby battalion or units in formation get bonus on stats

- Tactician: Bonus training a specific kind of unit (can be global while alive or nearby barracks)

- Naval Commander: Bonus to boat when garrisoned

- King: Ability to train personal guard in battle (limited to a small number)

- Leader: Special activable ability (throw a spear, a war yell, etc)

- Savior: Supporting heroe relating tech, healing

- Rebel: Gives ambush ability to nearby units

- Conqueror: Bonus to conquering rate to nearby units

It could be some specific traits (like the unit trained of the king hero or the warrior ability) but the goal is to keep it simple for easier balance

So civ 1 could have champion, governor and general, another one could have warrior, champion and naval commander, etc.

2. Current Design Document

Summary of the current design document

Athens heroes

-Themistocles
Bonus: When garrisoned 20% fast ship. 20% Cheaper boats during lifespan

-Pericles
Bonus: Faster building rate in his vision. Cheaper temples during lifespan.

-Iphicrates
Bonus: 15% speed and armor to units when added to a formation. All Peltasts +15% speed


Britons heroes

-Caractacus
Type: Infantry Spearman
Bonus: All Units +15% speed

-Cunobelin
Type: Infantry Swordman
Bonus: Let all units heal at 1 HP per second

-Boudicca
Type: Javelin Chariot
Bonus: +5 Attack, +2 Capture and +25% Speed for Champion Unit



Carthaginians heroes

-Hannibal Barca
Type: Elephant
Bonus: 15% attack to allies in his vision. Can see changes in FOW (new buildings, resources being depleted)

-Hamilcar Barca
Type: Cavalry swordman
Bonus: All units 15% to walk and run (not to charge)

-Maharbal
Type: Javelin and spearman cavalry
Bonus: +50% Cavalry charge attack in his vision range


Gaul heroes

-Britomartos
Type: Spearman
Bonus: Gathering rates increased with +15% during his lifetime

-Brennos
Type: Swordman
Bonus: +10 Metal loot for every enemy unit killed

-Vercengetorix
Type: Cavalry Swordman
Bonus: 2 Attack and +1 Capture for all units within his aura



Iberians heroes

-Viriato
Type:
Bonus: "Tactica Guerrilla"

-Karos
Type:
Bonus: "Tactica Guerrilla"

-Indibil
Type:
Bonus: "Tactica Guerrilla"


Macedonian heroes

-Philip II of Macedon.
Type:
Bonus: Increased Attack for Champion Units

-Alexander the Great
Type:
Bonus: 25% territory effect when living. 20% attack bonus himself agaist heroes

-Demetrius the Besieger
Type:
Bonus: Increased Range and Attack for Siege Engines


Mauryan heroes

-Chandragupta Maurya
Type: Elephant
Bonus: Not documented/TBD

-Ashoka the Great
Type: Chariot archer
Bonus: Ability of building pillar of Ashoka (effect TBD)

-Acharya Chanakya
Type:
Bonus: Empowering ability (50% training time to the building). Give oprtunity to research 4 special abilities


Persians heroes

-Cyrus The Great
Type: Cav javelin
Bonus: Aura increases attack damage of nearby cavalry units

- Darius The Great
Type:
Bonus: Aura increases movement speed of nearby units

- Xerxes I
Type:
Bonus: Aura accelerates the Gather Rate and Build Rate of nearby econ units


Ptolomies heroes

- Ptolemy I "Savior
Type: Elephant
Bonus: "Hero" Aura (Decreases build time for nearby structures.)/Mercenaries cost -50% during his lifetime

- Ptolemy IV "Father Loving
Type:
Bonus: Juggernaut train limit raised to 5 during his lifetime/Egyptian Pikemen have greater stats within vision of him

- Cleopatra VII
Type:
Bonus: Increased hero aura bonuses and stats for allied heroes within her range; decreased stats for enemy heroes within range/ Patriot bonus TBD


Roman heroes

- Quintus Fabius Maximus “Cunctator”
Type: Cav spearman
Bonus: Within range of him, all of the player's Roman soldiers gain +3 armor levels of all types

- Marcus Claudius Marcellus
Type: Cav swordman
Bonus: Roman infantry have +20% greater attack within his aura

- Scipio Africanus
Type: Cav swordman
Bonus: Ability to buy enemies with metal


Seleucid heroes

-Seleucus I "The Victor
Type: Elephant
Bonus: War Elephant attack and speed +20% within his vision

- Antiochus III "The Great"
Type: Cavalry Spearman
Bonus: All cavalry trained during his lifetime gain +2 levels of all armour types. These cavalrymen retain their armour bonuses even after Antiochus is dead

- Antiochus IV "The Righteous"
Type: CAv swordman
Bonus: give a bonus (x2) to infantry against buildings, siege engines, and ships. When alive, capturing is 25% faster


Spartans heroes

-Leonidas I
Type: Spearman
Bonus: Nearby friendly Hoplites and Spartiates have +20% attack and +10% armor

- Brasidas
Type: Swordman with javelin secondary attack
Bonus: Nearby Helot Skirmishers have increased armour and attack

- Agis III
Type: Spearman
Bonus: Triple health

3.Sketch

Classify all heroes with a historical view into one category isn't really easy, cause a lot of them were generals, but also tacticians, leaders, kings, and warriors. With this concept, only a few civs overlap their heroes.

Themistocles: Naval commander
Pericles: Governor
Iphicrates: General

Caractacus: Rebel
Cunobelin: Savior
Boudicca: General

Hannibal Barca: Tactician
Hamilcar Barca: General
Maharbal: Leader

Britomartos: Rebel
Brennos: Leader
Vercengetorix: General

Viriato: Rebel
Karos: Rebel
Indibil: Rebel

Philip: General
Alexander: Conqueror
Demetrius: Tactician

Chandragupta Champion
AShoka: King
Acharya: Savior

Cyrus: Tactician
Darius: King
Xerxes: Governor

Ptolemy I: Savior
Ptolemy IV: Naval commander
Cleopatra: Leader

Quintus Fabius: General
Marcus Claudius: Leader
Scipio: Conqueror

Seleucus I: Conqueror
Antiochus III: Tactician
Antiochus IV: General

Leonidas I: General
Brasidas: Tactician
Agis III: Champion

Some ideas about special civs features:

- A civ with an emphasis on heroes that allow a secondary class.

- Iberians could train two heroes instead of one. With the fact that all iberian heroes have the same Rebel class, this would encorauge a gameplay based on ambushes

Edited by av93
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To start with, because I don't really know the heroes auras, can you make a list of current heroes and their would be class? Even if it's not precisely the current bonus to see if there can be some classes to sort out?

This is just a suggestion to have a list of hero classes not from scratch.

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Udapted all heroes with the auras.

This is my sketch, inspired by the current DD, with some tweaks. Classify all heroes with a historical view into one category isn't really easy, cause a lot of them were generals, but also tacticians, leaders, kings, and warriors. With this concept, only a few civs overlap their heroes.

Sketch:

Themistocles: Naval commander
Pericles: Governor
Iphicrates: General

Caractacus: Rebel
Cunobelin: Savior
Boudicca: General

Hannibal Barca: Tactician
Hamilcar Barca: General
Maharbal: Leader

Britomartos: Rebel
Brennos: Leader
Vercengetorix: General

Viriato: Rebel
Karos: Rebel
Indibil: Rebel

Philip: General
Alexander: Conqueror
Demetrius: Tactician

Chandragupta Champion
AShoka: King
Acharya: Savior

Cyrus: Tactician
Darius: King
Xerxes: Governor

Ptolemy I: Savior
Ptolemy IV: Naval commander
Cleopatra: Leader

Quintus Fabius: General
Marcus Claudius: Leader
Scipio: Conqueror

Seleucus I: Conqueror
Antiochus III: Tactician
Antiochus IV: General

Leonidas I: General
Brasidas: Tactician
Agis III: Champion

* means not sure

Some ideas about special civs features:

- A civ with an emphasis on heroes that allow a secondary class.

- Iberians could train two heroes instead of one. With the fact that all iberian heroes have the same Rebel class, this would encorauge a gameplay based on ambushes

Edited by av93
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Nice start, seing the list it may ease a lot the learning curve. For those who are lazy to search for the design document (or eager to do something else), could you add a line or two to justify the class choice? Mostly from historic facts I suppose.

I know for Pericles and Bouddica, not sure for Philip II (which I see more as a reformist) and Alexander (more as a conqueror). That way we can agree or disagree on your choices more easily. Also a link to the design document page relative to the hero may be a plus (you can consider other people are lazy :) )

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The choices are based on the current DD, so the thing that I have done is fitting the old bonus (that you can check in the summary) into my new categories. I have made some changes, trying to avoid overlapping. Also I tryed that all "barbarian" (don't like the word) civs get a rebel heroe

BTW, conqueror was a class that I didn't think about it. The 10th class. :)

Edited by av93
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I like this idea, too.

As Karamel stated it would be still important to match the hero classes as close as possible to historical context. At least if you want to give your proposal a chance to be included in the main game (and not in a mod). It would be nice if we could get some dev's opinion - otherwise you can perhaps create a ticket if you are confident with your work.

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Also I tryed that all "barbarian" (don't like the word) civs get a rebel heroe

Do not be upset using this word. In historical context, which the game is use, is that barbarian just mean a civ that is not Greek or Roman or Graeco-Roman. Modern context is just modern context. This game base on history (for instance, game use older words in a lot of case instead of newer ones).

Edited by wowgetoffyourcellphone
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